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Post by greenchristian on Jun 17, 2024 18:32:54 GMT
If somebody is planning to vote tactically then they are more likely to pay attention to whatever ground campaign is going on in their area than the average voter. Yes, some of them will have managed to miss it over the last 18 months to two years. But it's unlikely that they will be a very large proportion of tactical voters. As for the constituency's reaction to a party using outside activists, what makes this constituency any different than North Shropshire (where the Lib Dem by-election campaign was full of outside activists flooding into the seat)? Like most political activists you fail to understand just how disengaged a lot of general election voters are. There are plenty of people who think the Tories deserve a kicking but have no idea who is best placed to beat them and have little interest in finding out. As for outside activists and North Shropshire, I don't know that constituency anywhere near as well as I know this one but it isn't as overwhelmingly rural (a higher percentage live in the major towns) and my impression is that it isn't as parochial. In any event by elections are different to general elections in their character and every party running a serious campaign has lots of outside activists. If people have decided that the Tories deserve a kicking but have little interest in finding out who is best placed to beat them then they are not tactical voters. A tactical voter is defined as somebody who chooses who to vote for a candidate/party on the basis of which candidate/party they believe is best placed to prevent a candidate/party they dislike from winning in their constituency. If they aren't paying attention to the ground campaign and don't make any active attempt to find out who is best placed then they aren't a tactical voter. And doing either of those things automatically puts somebody out of the extremely disengaged category of voters you are describing.
I remain unconvinced that North Herefordshire is as parochial when it comes to activists as you think. Help from outside the area hasn't ever hurt us in local elections here. And our candidate is as local as they come. As somebody who's put countless hours over the years helping a wide variety of campaigns away from where i live, it's been extremely rare to have any discussion on the doorstep of whether I live in the area or not. People often care about whether he candidate is local (which Ellie is) but rarely about whether everyone who's helping them out is.
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Post by John Chanin on Jun 17, 2024 18:41:37 GMT
I'm sure the Green Party's opposition to wind farms, solar farms, and pylons, will go down well in North Herefordshire, although outside observers might suggest that it isn't terribly green.
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Post by owainsutton on Jun 17, 2024 18:59:58 GMT
Like most political activists you fail to understand just how disengaged a lot of general election voters are. There are plenty of people who think the Tories deserve a kicking but have no idea who is best placed to beat them and have little interest in finding out. As for outside activists and North Shropshire, I don't know that constituency anywhere near as well as I know this one but it isn't as overwhelmingly rural (a higher percentage live in the major towns) and my impression is that it isn't as parochial. In any event by elections are different to general elections in their character and every party running a serious campaign has lots of outside activists. If people have decided that the Tories deserve a kicking but have little interest in finding out who is best placed to beat them then they are not tactical voters. A tactical voter is defined as somebody who chooses who to vote for a candidate/party on the basis of which candidate/party they believe is best placed to prevent a candidate/party they dislike from winning in their constituency. If they aren't paying attention to the ground campaign and don't make any active attempt to find out who is best placed then they aren't a tactical voter. And doing either of those things automatically puts somebody out of the extremely disengaged category of voters you are describing.
I remain unconvinced that North Herefordshire is as parochial when it comes to activists as you think. Help from outside the area hasn't ever hurt us in local elections here. And our candidate is as local as they come. As somebody who's put countless hours over the years helping a wide variety of campaigns away from where i live, it's been extremely rare to have any discussion on the doorstep of whether I live in the area or not. People often care about whether he candidate is local (which Ellie is) but rarely about whether everyone who's helping them out is.
People helping from outside of the area can be easily turned into a positive. |
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Jun 17, 2024 19:21:49 GMT
I'm sure the Green Party's opposition to wind farms, solar farms, and pylons, will go down well in North Herefordshire, although outside observers might suggest that it isn't terribly green. This isn't the Green manifesto. |
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Post by John Chanin on Jun 17, 2024 19:41:52 GMT
I'm sure the Green Party's opposition to wind farms, solar farms, and pylons, will go down well in North Herefordshire, although outside observers might suggest that it isn't terribly green. This isn't the Green manifesto. But it is their position in rural areas like North Herefordshire. The manifesto gives a position that is familiar from all the other parties -they are in favour in principle of things, but there are many caveats that in practice negate this. Even the Campaign for the Protection of Rural Nimbies is in favour of housing development in principle although you'd be hard pressed to find an example in practice. |
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Sibboleth
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Post by Sibboleth on Jun 17, 2024 19:45:15 GMT
I travelled through this constituency last week. There was not much in the way of evidence of an election going on, which is actually quite notable: ordinarily one sees vast numbers of Conservative signs out in the fields, especially in North Herefordshire proper (i.e. the southern agricultural hinterland of Ludlow). I don't know what things look like in the towns.
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Post by iainbhx on Jun 18, 2024 6:58:44 GMT
People helping from outside of the area can be easily turned into a positive. You've never been to Bromyard, have you? |
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YL
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Post by YL on Jun 18, 2024 7:28:24 GMT
I voted sort of tactically in 2019, but more because I could not support my local Labour candidate in that election even though I preferred a Labour government to a Conservative one. Her subsequent record in my CLP shows that I made the right decision. I will not vote tactically in this election. Firstly, because I think it's immoral for me to be a member of a political party and vote against its candidate without good reason. And secondly because it just isn't necessary. Not only because the overall outcome is not in any doubt, but also because the outcome in my constituency is certain - it's a copper-bottomed Lib Dem hold. Why should I vote for a party whose ideology (or arguably lack of it) I fundamentally disagree with when they do not even require my vote to win? My mother & wife will vote Labour for similar reasons - we all voted for Sarah Olney last time. In an election where the overall outcome is so incredibly obvious, I don't understand why some voters remain so desperate to vote tactically in their seat, though if you particularly dislike your MP I do understand why the temptation to kick them out is hard to resist. There are certain seats where I'm glad I don't have a vote as I am not happy about the particular Labour candidate, but I think I can say there is no constituency in Britain where I would vote against Labour in this election even if in some (very limited number of) cases I might have to hold my nose in voting. Most "tactical voters" will not be as firm in their preference for one party as you are. |
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Post by carlton43 on Jun 18, 2024 8:38:29 GMT
People helping from outside of the area can be easily turned into a positive. You've never been to Bromyard, have you? Well no. Of course not. I'm from Steen Bridge. I hear tell that we were on the original Trek from Great Marston generations ago. |
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cathyc
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Post by cathyc on Jun 18, 2024 8:55:53 GMT
Anyone who says that tactical voting at constituency level shouldn't happen but at a national one it should is a two-headed horse pulling in opposite directions. If you want to say that the argument being fostered by the Tories nationally that it's just a two horse race is bogus then feel free. I did not say that tactical voting should or should not happen at a constituency level or at a national level. Yeah, ya did. "Sensible people should forget about the fake snake oil,religion of Tactical Voting, and vote for the party whose policies they support."
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Post by batman on Jun 18, 2024 9:02:02 GMT
perhaps John means that tactical voting is OK for stupid people & not for sensible ones.
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Post by johnloony on Jun 18, 2024 13:30:26 GMT
I did not say that tactical voting should or should not happen at a constituency level or at a national level. Yeah, ya did. "Sensible people should forget about the fake snake oil,religion of Tactical Voting, and vote for the party whose policies they support."No I didn't, and the quote which you have just quoted proves that I did not say the thing which you accused me of saying. |
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YL
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Post by YL on Jun 18, 2024 17:05:08 GMT
The Ipsos MRP has this seat as Lean Green.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2024 17:20:28 GMT
The Ipsos MRP has this seat as Lean Green. I had a nice lentil shakshuka at Lean Green in Leominster once. |
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cathyc
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Post by cathyc on Jun 18, 2024 20:38:12 GMT
Yeah, ya did. "Sensible people should forget about the fake snake oil,religion of Tactical Voting, and vote for the party whose policies they support."No I didn't, and the quote which you have just quoted proves that I did not say the thing which you accused me of saying. I have reread your comment several times for any hidden meaning that shows you don't disapprove of tactical voting - but only when it works in a particular direction. I can't find one because it isn't there. |
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Post by johnloony on Jun 18, 2024 21:19:10 GMT
No I didn't, and the quote which you have just quoted proves that I did not say the thing which you accused me of saying. I have reread your comment several times for any hidden meaning that shows you don't disapprove of tactical voting - but only when it works in a particular direction. I can't find one because it isn't there. I neither approve nor disapprove of tactical voting. |
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right
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Post by right on Jun 19, 2024 6:55:12 GMT
I've got a friend in North Herefordshire who says that the Greens are quite intensively leafletting (hearing that from another one of the Green's four targets). Here's one, with a new twist on the use of dodgy graphs: electionleaflets.org/leaflets/full/93778/ |
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Post by rcronald on Jun 19, 2024 7:07:17 GMT
I've got a friend in North Herefordshire who says that the Greens are quite intensively leafletting (hearing that from another one of the Green's four targets). Here's one, with a new twist on the use of dodgy graphs: electionleaflets.org/leaflets/full/93778/Smart colour choice for a shire constituency. |
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cathyc
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Post by cathyc on Jun 19, 2024 9:10:05 GMT
I have reread your comment several times for any hidden meaning that shows you don't disapprove of tactical voting - but only when it works in a particular direction. I can't find one because it isn't there. I neither approve nor disapprove of tactical voting. So you are ambivalent about (in your own words) 'fake snake oil'? Would you have an opinion one way or the other if the snake oil was real? |
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Post by johnloony on Jun 19, 2024 15:05:26 GMT
I neither approve nor disapprove of tactical voting. So you are ambivalent about (in your own words) 'fake snake oil'? Would you have an opinion one way or the other if the snake oil was real? I have no opinion about whether snakes exist or not, or whether they eat oil or not, or whether the oil which they may or may not eat may or may not exist. |
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