Hackney North and Stoke Newington

[birkinabe]

SOPN - Con, Lab, LD, Green, Reform UK, OMRLP, x2 Independent

[right]

Has anyone heard any more why Abbott was reinstated?

Starmer seems to have pretty much complete control of the party machine, they would be in no danger of losing Hackney North if Abbott stood as an independent and even if it did cost some votes in marginal seats (and I think it's probably the opposite) they could shrug that off with the win that looks like coming.

[batman]

Labour's disciplinary process has a very strong independent element to it. It was a political imperative after under Corbyn's leadership LOTO (the leader's office) was shown to have unduly interfered in disciplinary cases. There are party rules and even the leader & deputy leader have to stick to them. The question of whether a Labour MP may take the Whip however is determined separately, although no Labour MP who is suspended from the Party from individual membership may be permitted to take it. It is highly undesirable for the Leader of the Party of his (or in future perhaps her) own bat to decide who may or may not stand as a candidate, be a member of the Party or to take its Whip. The Party's disciplinary body took the decision to end her suspension, and it was thought appropriate for her to have the Whip restored before Parliament was dissolved. In such circumstances it would not normally be acceptable to prevent a candidate from standing for the Party, and the Party in addition to this will have realised that blocking her from standing would have caused real & widespread anger in the Black community.

But quite apart from electoral considerations there were no real grounds for her not to be allowed to stand as a Labour candidate if she wished to do so and retained the support of her CLP, both of which were the case. It may be surmised that she has health problems, but unlike the Tories in NE Scotland there was no wish for her to be retired involuntarily, and so the decision was come to that a Labour candidate she remains. Personally, although I was very unhappy with the comments that led to her suspension, I believe that the right decision was come to. She showed contrition to a greater degree than her old friend in the neighbouring constituency, and did what was asked of her in terms of attending an antisemitism training course. So no, although the Party is run almost completely by allies of its Leader at almost all levels, he does not have day-to-day control of decisions such as this, nor should he.

I made this into two paragraphs in order to comply with the suggestion of carlton43   

[right]

Jun 10, 2024 8:20:06 GMT batman said:

Labour's disciplinary process has a very strong independent element to it. It was a political imperative after under Corbyn's leadership LOTO (the leader's office) was shown to have unduly interfered in disciplinary cases. There are party rules and even the leader & deputy leader have to stick to them. The question of whether a Labour MP may take the Whip however is determined separately, although no Labour MP who is suspended from the Party from individual membership may be permitted to take it. It is highly undesirable for the Leader of the Party of his (or in future perhaps her) own bat to decide who may or may not stand as a candidate, be a member of the Party or to take its Whip. The Party's disciplinary body took the decision to end her suspension, and it was thought appropriate for her to have the Whip restored before Parliament was dissolved. In such circumstances it would not normally be acceptable to prevent a candidate from standing for the Party, and the Party in addition to this will have realised that blocking her from standing would have caused real & widespread anger in the Black community.

But quite apart from electoral considerations there were no real grounds for her not to be allowed to stand as a Labour candidate if she wished to do so and retained the support of her CLP, both of which were the case. It may be surmised that she has health problems, but unlike the Tories in NE Scotland there was no wish for her to be retired involuntarily, and so the decision was come to that a Labour candidate she remains. Personally, although I was very unhappy with the comments that led to her suspension, I believe that the right decision was come to. She showed contrition to a greater degree than her old friend in the neighbouring constituency, and did what was asked of her in terms of attending an antisemitism training course. So no, although the Party is run almost completely by allies of its Leader at almost all levels, he does not have day-to-day control of decisions such as this, nor should he.

I made this into two paragraphs in order to comply with the suggestion of carlton43   

Thank you for the detailed explanation and I take your point on the membership

But who gets the party whip is very much more under the leader's control, and so he could still have denied her the Labour name and logo.  But he (or LOTO) didn't.

[The Bishop]

Plus there has never been any *reliable* indication that Starmer was set on preventing her from standing come what may. There were certainly those, including some of her friends, who felt she might consider retiring on health grounds - and had things not become so heated, that still could have happened.

[right]

Jun 10, 2024 10:44:00 GMT The Bishop said:

Plus there has never been any *reliable* indication that Starmer was set on preventing her from standing come what may. There were certainly those, including some of her friends, who felt she might consider retiring on health grounds - and had things not become so heated, that still could have happened.

That's a possibility.  But some people with power over the process were holding it up and Starmer either let them or (less plausibly) didn't have sufficient control over them.

[norflondon]

Quite frankly, on here there is disgusting mitigation of a cruel, deliberatelly extended process against Abbott, recognised by most ppl , even many on the right wing of the party.

Nothing justifies it, not even her support for Palestinian rights nor indeed her strident defence of the rights of black Britons.

[The Bishop]

Jun 10, 2024 10:58:09 GMT right said:

Jun 10, 2024 10:44:00 GMT The Bishop said:

Plus there has never been any *reliable* indication that Starmer was set on preventing her from standing come what may. There were certainly those, including some of her friends, who felt she might consider retiring on health grounds - and had things not become so heated, that still could have happened.

That's a possibility.  But some people with power over the process were holding it up and Starmer either let them or (less plausibly) didn't have sufficient control over them.

Is it really that implausible - it is a common complaint across the party that some people in the apparatus are almost a law unto themselves. If so, why hasn't Starmer dealt with this? Maybe because he has judged it more trouble than it is worth - at least whilst Labour remains in opposition.

[right]

Jun 10, 2024 13:28:08 GMT The Bishop said:

Jun 10, 2024 10:58:09 GMT right said:

That's a possibility.  But some people with power over the process were holding it up and Starmer either let them or (less plausibly) didn't have sufficient control over them.

Is it really that implausible - it is a common complaint across the party that some people in the apparatus are almost a law unto themselves. If so, why hasn't Starmer dealt with this? Maybe because he has judged it more trouble than it is worth - at least whilst Labour remains in opposition.

I think I know what you're trying to get at but it does seem to be saying that Abbott wasn't targeted by Starmer, it's just that he thought it too much trouble to untarget her

I'm still interested as to why this fairly quickly changed.  I've heard vague things about focus group reactions and Angela Rayner.  But when Labour is making what could prove rather expensive "clarifications" about boarding schools and pension caps, excluding Abbott at the very best goes the other way as she's not a popular figure with swing voters in marginal seats.

[john07]

I suspect that the assumption was that Abbott would not stand again through ill health. She appears to have delegated her social media to rather 'unreliable' assistants who may well have their own agenda?

I certainly don't think there was any 'plot' hatched to unseat Abbott. It was more likely that the cumbersome and long-winded 'disciplinary process' was the root cause of the problem as it was with lots of other Labour MPs from across the spectrum.

The chaos of the whole disciplinary process dragging on for months if not years often with unspecified charges needs to be sorted out of streamlined.

[carlton43]

Jun 10, 2024 13:13:08 GMT norflondon said:

Quite frankly, on here there is disgusting mitigation of a cruel, deliberatelly extended process against Abbott, recognised by most ppl , even many on the right wing of the party.

Nothing justifies it, not even her support for Palestinian rights nor indeed her strident defence of the rights of black Britons.

I am sure you will get over it and sustain a full recovery after lots of bed rest and beef broth.

[andrea]

She hopes she has learnt a lot!

/photo/1

[Deleted]

Jun 10, 2024 15:27:43 GMT john07 said:

I suspect that the assumption was that Abbott would not stand again through ill health. She appears to have delegated her social media to rather 'unreliable' assistants who may well have their own agenda?

I certainly don't think there was any 'plot' hatched to unseat Abbott. It was more likely that the cumbersome and long-winded 'disciplinary process' was the root cause of the problem as it was with lots of other Labour MPs from across the spectrum.

The chaos of the whole disciplinary process dragging on for months if not years often with unspecified charges needs to be sorted out of streamlined.

If Diane was blocked from standing, she'd have run as an independent (and won). I reckon Akehurst wanted this seat, but carpetbagged North Durham instead, IMO. 

[right]

Jun 20, 2024 5:43:45 GMT @weld said:

Jun 10, 2024 15:27:43 GMT john07 said:

I suspect that the assumption was that Abbott would not stand again through ill health. She appears to have delegated her social media to rather 'unreliable' assistants who may well have their own agenda?

I certainly don't think there was any 'plot' hatched to unseat Abbott. It was more likely that the cumbersome and long-winded 'disciplinary process' was the root cause of the problem as it was with lots of other Labour MPs from across the spectrum.

The chaos of the whole disciplinary process dragging on for months if not years often with unspecified charges needs to be sorted out of streamlined.

If Diane was blocked from standing, she'd have run as an independent (and won). I reckon Akehurst wanted this seat, but carpetbagged North Durham instead, IMO. 

She would have needed energy a d local affection to pull off a win, and I suspect she wasn't high enough on either. She's very different from Corbyn.

[Deleted]

Jun 20, 2024 6:13:21 GMT right said:

Jun 20, 2024 5:43:45 GMT @weld said:

If Diane was blocked from standing, she'd have run as an independent (and won). I reckon Akehurst wanted this seat, but carpetbagged North Durham instead, IMO. 

She would have needed energy a d local affection to pull off a win, and I suspect she wasn't high enough on either. She's very different from Corbyn.

Negative energy around the imposed Labour candidate (e.g. Sem Moema, Luke Akehurst, etc) and borrowed votes from Green supporters would have put her ahead. 

[adlai52]

Jun 20, 2024 6:13:21 GMT right said:

Jun 20, 2024 5:43:45 GMT @weld said:

If Diane was blocked from standing, she'd have run as an independent (and won). I reckon Akehurst wanted this seat, but carpetbagged North Durham instead, IMO. 

She would have needed energy a d local affection to pull off a win, and I suspect she wasn't high enough on either. She's very different from Corbyn.

It's the seat I live in and your probably right - she would pull in a respectable vote and there is a big potential green/hard left vote to draw on. But not enough to win without a huge effort and probably a few months of time to prepare the ground (voter ID etc...). 

Ultimately, she would have faced similar challenges to Corbyn in Islington North - in a seat that is not dissimilar - but without the same profile and probably without the same army of volunteers that will be working in Islington North at the moment.   

[Deleted]

Jun 20, 2024 7:48:01 GMT adlai52 said:

Jun 20, 2024 6:13:21 GMT right said:

She would have needed energy a d local affection to pull off a win, and I suspect she wasn't high enough on either. She's very different from Corbyn.

It's the seat I live in and your probably right - she would pull in a respectable vote and there is a big potential green/hard left vote to draw on. But not enough to win without a huge effort and probably a few months of time to prepare the ground (voter ID etc...). 

Ultimately, she would have faced similar challenges to Corbyn in Islington North - in a seat that is not dissimilar - but without the same profile and probably without the same army of volunteers that will be working in Islington North at the moment.   

Former Hackney resident here - I think Diane Abbott would have pulled ahead in Clissold, Hackney Downs, Stoke Newington, and probably Shacklewell, relying on the votes of her core supporters as well as more recent arrivals and the stoner vote would've plumped for Diane. Labour only got 49% in the 2023 Hackney mayoralty, and much of that vote would still have been Black British Diane fans since the Greens ran a lily-white, pink-haired feminist for Mayor (a strong candidate and a decent Councillor, but they have a ceiling with Black votes as the repeated failure to win De Beauvoir shows.

[right]

Guido on one of the independent candidates

order-order.com/2024/06/21/dianne-abbotts-celebrity-obsessed-corbyn-and-tommy-robinson-lover-opponent/

[Deleted]

Jun 22, 2024 8:32:57 GMT right said:

Guido on one of the independent candidates

order-order.com/2024/06/21/dianne-abbotts-celebrity-obsessed-corbyn-and-tommy-robinson-lover-opponent/

"Constiuents" - I stopped reading after that. 

[norflondon]

Very few like a show off.


He works at The Cock Tavern.