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Post by noorderling on Jun 2, 2024 12:03:55 GMT
Her decision David, not yours. But is it 'Her' decision when driven by the fervour of those half her age with no health issues or conception of what that even means! Of course everyone urging her to step down, only does so from an deeply felt concern for her wellbeing. |
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Post by eastmidlandsright on Jun 2, 2024 12:08:01 GMT
The whole episode leaves Starmer looking rather a chump. He presumably believed, perhaps was led to believe , that Abbott would accept a compromise where she was reinstated but then agreed to go quietly, thus maintaining his carefully cultivated image as being tough on the hard left while offering something to mollify his critics from that wing. He was then comprehensively stumped when she took the offer of reinstatement and promptly kicked off, forcing him into an embarrassing climb down. Leaving him looking both vindictive and weak- “Willing to wound but afraid to strike”. In the context of his , or rather his party’s , lead over the Conservatives it’s not really significant, though it may perhaps say something about how he will perform when in government and under pressure. So far, given that he was in effect handed a virtually impregnable position by the implosion of the government , as opposed to any particular enthusiasm for him in the country, all he has had to do to date is demonstrate that he is not Jeremy Corbyn and reassure those voters determined to give the Conservatives a kicking that he can be trusted. And he’s done a good job with that. But the challenges of government are much harder and will come thick and fast. The weakness always catches one out. Once they see the weakness they keep pushing like teenagers do. Be firm and never relent. There is no need even to be fair as long as one is consistent. There was more up side and more votes in just blocking the old bag altogether. It annoyed that small minority on the left and nobody else at all in Britain. Now he has made himself look weak, childish, inconsistent and lacking in courage and made her look much better than she is. He is now all square with Rishi on the incompetence and poor politics scoreboard for this election. And he was doing so well with a quite admirable and successful purge. It reminded me of the 19 Boris late purge. But Boris cocked up that purge too and did not go all out for the Remainer jugular : And thus one plank of his later problems. Could be the same for 'Keith'! For me the worse part is that it has made him look foolish, he got played be Diane Abbott of all people. The flaw in the "restore the whip on the understanding she won't run" was obvious for all to see yet somehow he didn't. Once the whip was restored he was trapped, he had lost his rationale for not letting her stand and had no good way out of the mess he created. |
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carlton43
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Post by carlton43 on Jun 2, 2024 12:09:23 GMT
But is it 'Her' decision when driven by the fervour of those half her age with no health issues or conception of what that even means! Of course everyone urging her to step down, only does so from an deeply felt concern for her wellbeing. But, in this particular, we are not talking about them at all are we? And many of those suggesting she quietly retires with dignity are mainly concerned for her wellbeing; others are also concerned about the best outcome and the most minimal damage to the party as well; and others, like me, are, as you correctly adduce, trouble-makers. |
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Ports
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Post by Ports on Jun 2, 2024 12:09:48 GMT
But I also doubt Starmer wanted to let a feud with his Deputy Leader dominate the news - the existence of one perhaps more salient with the broader voting public than the future of Diane Abbott.
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andrea
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Post by andrea on Jun 2, 2024 12:16:10 GMT
One is a former Blair's political secretary and the other a former labour press officer
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andrea
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Post by andrea on Jun 2, 2024 12:20:22 GMT
Starmer today: “Although I disagree with some of what she says, in terms of the battles she’s been through and the terrible insults she has had to rise above, I’ve actually got more respect for Diane than she probably realises,” he says. “She was the first Black woman MP and has always had to fight for everything. She’s not like any other candidate.”
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right
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Post by right on Jun 2, 2024 12:26:26 GMT
The weakness always catches one out. Once they see the weakness they keep pushing like teenagers do. Be firm and never relent. There is no need even to be fair as long as one is consistent. There was more up side and more votes in just blocking the old bag altogether. It annoyed that small minority on the left and nobody else at all in Britain. Now he has made himself look weak, childish, inconsistent and lacking in courage and made her look much better than she is. He is now all square with Rishi on the incompetence and poor politics scoreboard for this election. And he was doing so well with a quite admirable and successful purge. It reminded me of the 19 Boris late purge. But Boris cocked up that purge too and did not go all out for the Remainer jugular : And thus one plank of his later problems. Could be the same for 'Keith'! For me the worse part is that it has made him look foolish, he got played be Diane Abbott of all people. The flaw in the "restore the whip on the understanding she won't run" was obvious for all to see yet somehow he didn't. Once the whip was restored he was trapped, he had lost his rationale for not letting her stand and had no good way out of the mess he created. It almost certainly doesn't matter for this election, but Starmer has very little political tactical nous. Strategically he's certainly made the right calls to play down Brexit and socialism, but he gets tripped up on the silliest short term things. Sleepy Keith is unfair on his age, but there's some truth to it on his clod hopping navigation of things like this. |
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right
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Post by right on Jun 2, 2024 12:27:52 GMT
But I also doubt Starmer wanted to let a feud with his Deputy Leader dominate the news - the existence of one perhaps more salient with the broader voting public than the future of Diane Abbott. He's going to have to wipe Rayner out when he's in power. For that reason I suspect that the CGT issue has only been temporarily been put away. |
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Post by doktorb🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ on Jun 2, 2024 12:33:42 GMT
All this was not supposed to happen two weeks into the campaign.
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hengog
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Post by hengog on Jun 2, 2024 12:33:56 GMT
Starmer today: “Although I disagree with some of what she says, in terms of the battles she’s been through and the terrible insults she has had to rise above, I’ve actually got more respect for Diane than she probably realises,” he says. “She was the first Black woman MP and has always had to fight for everything. She’s not like any other candidate.” He’d be better saying nothing I’d have thought. Maybe there is some deal whereby a bit of grovelling on his part will be reciprocated by her being more supportive. But he risks more snubbing , while no one is going to be convinced he’s not been outsmarted and made to look a bit foolish. Everyone makes mistakes - better to ignore it and move on. |
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right
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Post by right on Jun 2, 2024 12:36:52 GMT
All this was not supposed to happen two weeks into the campaign. If anyone's been watching Sleepy Keith at all closely, or remembered him when he was up against Boris, this is exactly the sort of stuff that happens to him - all the time. He's made the big calls right, good with the administrative side of thing and he's lucky in his opponents, but he's just a bad natural politician on the little things like this, Sue Grey, wittering on about wallpaper, majoring on parties when he was a bigger offender, and the list goes on. Very bad natural politician. It won't stop him winning, but it may have some hilarious effects when he's won. |
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carlton43
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Post by carlton43 on Jun 2, 2024 12:55:57 GMT
Starmer today: “Although I disagree with some of what she says, in terms of the battles she’s been through and the terrible insults she has had to rise above, I’ve actually got more respect for Diane than she probably realises,” he says. “She was the first Black woman MP and has always had to fight for everything. She’s not like any other candidate.” He’d be better saying nothing I’d have thought. Maybe there is some deal whereby a bit of grovelling on his part will be reciprocated by her being more supportive. But he risks more snubbing , while no one is going to be convinced he’s not been outsmarted and made to look a bit foolish. Everyone makes mistakes - better to ignore it and move on. This is another ritual dropping the knee and very foolish indeed just as it was last time. |
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Jun 2, 2024 13:19:24 GMT
All this was not supposed to happen two weeks into the campaign. If anyone's been watching Sleepy Keith at all closely, or remembered him when he was up against Boris, this is exactly the sort of stuff that happens to him - all the time. He's made the big calls right, good with the administrative side of thing and he's lucky in his opponents, but he's just a bad natural politician on the little things like this, Sue Grey, wittering on about wallpaper, majoring on parties when he was a bigger offender, and the list goes on. Very bad natural politician. It won't stop him winning, but it may have some hilarious effects when he's won. Leaving aside the blatant lie about him being "the bigger offender" (no proceedings were brought against Starmer, whereas the PM got a Fixed Penalty Notice, the first and so far only British PM to ever get a criminal penalty while in office, with the added bonus that it was for an offence which he passed into law), I think anyone who considers that going big on Partygate was some sort of error of judgement which has hurt the Labour Party is not really in a good position to be handing down judgments about who is a "natural politician" How poor old "Keith" must lie awake agonising about the constant reminders he receives from the public every day about some curry or whatever, crying as he looks at his approval ratings, while Boris Johnson proceeds serenely on his way as PM with his party continuing to hold the massive lead in the polls that it has enjoyed ever since the Covid vaccine roll-out. Or, perhaps not. The "Sleepy Keith" thing is the usual playground insults, snuck in on the assumption that no-one will stoop to counter it and that maybe eventually it will stick, but worth noting in this context as another piece of misjudgement, since the pathetic "Sleepy Keir Starmer" thing went down like a dead balloon with the general public for the obvious reason that it's silly beyond words. |
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Post by noorderling on Jun 2, 2024 13:24:44 GMT
If anyone's been watching Sleepy Keith at all closely, or remembered him when he was up against Boris, this is exactly the sort of stuff that happens to him - all the time. He's made the big calls right, good with the administrative side of thing and he's lucky in his opponents, but he's just a bad natural politician on the little things like this, Sue Grey, wittering on about wallpaper, majoring on parties when he was a bigger offender, and the list goes on. Very bad natural politician. It won't stop him winning, but it may have some hilarious effects when he's won. Leaving aside the blatant lie about him being "the bigger offender" (no proceedings were brought against Starmer, whereas the PM got a Fixed Penalty Notice, the first and so far only British PM to ever get a criminal penalty while in office, with the added bonus that it was for an offence which he passed into law), I think anyone who considers that going big on Partygate was some sort of error of judgement which has hurt the Labour Party is not really in a good position to be handing down judgments about who is a "natural politician" How poor old "Keith" must lie awake agonising about the constant reminders he receives from the public every day about some curry or whatever, crying as he looks at his approval ratings, while Boris Johnson proceeds serenely on his way as PM with his party continuing to hold the massive lead in the polls that it has enjoyed ever since the Covid vaccine roll-out. Or, perhaps not. The "Sleepy Keith" thing is the usual playground insults, snuck in on the assumption that no-one will stoop to counter it and that maybe eventually it will stick, but worth noting in this context as another piece of misjudgement, since the pathetic "Sleepy Keir Starmer" thing went down like a dead balloon with the general public for the obvious reason that it's silly beyond words. Insult not very original either. Straight out of the MAGA playbook. |
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right
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Post by right on Jun 2, 2024 13:39:42 GMT
Leaving aside the blatant lie about him being "the bigger offender" (no proceedings were brought against Starmer, whereas the PM got a Fixed Penalty Notice, the first and so far only British PM to ever get a criminal penalty while in office, with the added bonus that it was for an offence which he passed into law), I think anyone who considers that going big on Partygate was some sort of error of judgement which has hurt the Labour Party is not really in a good position to be handing down judgments about who is a "natural politician" How poor old "Keith" must lie awake agonising about the constant reminders he receives from the public every day about some curry or whatever, crying as he looks at his approval ratings, while Boris Johnson proceeds serenely on his way as PM with his party continuing to hold the massive lead in the polls that it has enjoyed ever since the Covid vaccine roll-out. Or, perhaps not. The "Sleepy Keith" thing is the usual playground insults, snuck in on the assumption that no-one will stoop to counter it and that maybe eventually it will stick, but worth noting in this context as another piece of misjudgement, since the pathetic "Sleepy Keir Starmer" thing went down like a dead balloon with the general public for the obvious reason that it's silly beyond words. Insult not very original either. Straight out of the MAGA playbook. It's whether it fits rather than the originality that matters, and he doesn't half mess up the small things |
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graham
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Post by graham on Jun 2, 2024 13:55:58 GMT
Insult not very original either. Straight out of the MAGA playbook. It's whether it fits rather than the originality that matters, and he doesn't half mess up the small things For me the Hartlepool by election was the first clear evidence of Starmer's lack of political 'nous'. He effectively gifted a seat to his opponents - and was fortunate to be given the opportunity to recover. |
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maxque
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Post by maxque on Jun 2, 2024 13:57:07 GMT
But I also doubt Starmer wanted to let a feud with his Deputy Leader dominate the news - the existence of one perhaps more salient with the broader voting public than the future of Diane Abbott. He's going to have to wipe Rayner out when he's in power. For that reason I suspect that the CGT issue has only been temporarily been put away. I feel that trying that may be the one thing that would spark revolt in the PLP. |
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right
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Post by right on Jun 2, 2024 14:07:47 GMT
It's whether it fits rather than the originality that matters, and he doesn't half mess up the small things For me the Hartlepool by election was the first clear evidence of Starmer's lack of political 'nous'. He effectively gifted a seat to his opponents - and was fortunate to be given the opportunity to recover. And Batley and Spen was gifted to him. The Tories didn't properly run and a second loss would have been fatal. |
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right
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Post by right on Jun 2, 2024 14:08:39 GMT
He's going to have to wipe Rayner out when he's in power. For that reason I suspect that the CGT issue has only been temporarily been put away. I feel that trying that may be the one thing that would spark revolt in the PLP. If she did something criminal there's no way they would rally round her. Of course the dog's sleeping for now. |
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Post by noorderling on Jun 2, 2024 14:10:17 GMT
Insult not very original either. Straight out of the MAGA playbook. It's whether it fits rather than the originality that matters, and he doesn't half mess up the small things I’m not a fan of Starmer, who I find extremely boring. But I can’t quit match the insult with the accusation. Funnily enough, since Trump’s criminal trial the Sleepy Joe taunt seems for what ever reason to have disappeared. |
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