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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2024 16:13:50 GMT
Storm in a tea cup. Reform has bad apples as activists is about as newsworthy as saying water is wet or the Pope is Catholic. As I've said, that's understandable that some activists and campaigners have that worldview - many people in this seat would have voted for the BNP un the 2006 Barking & DAGENHAM Council elections and might just have still lived in LBBD in 2010 and voted for Griffin. I think this seat has an almost unique voter - the Griffin - Carswell - Watling - Farage voter. Where else in the land do you get people who voted BNP in 2010, UKIP in 2015, Tory in 2017 and who will almost certainly vote Reform this time? Genuine question. Leeds South West & Morley might have some of those along with some of the Lancashire mill towns and maybe bits of Wakefield and seats like Rawmarsh & Conisbrough. I'm speculating, but I think there are some parallels between parts of the demographic here and Rother Valley or Boston & Skegness. I think, and this is an unpopular view, but I'd rather the racists where they exist voted for the Reform Party or the Tories than the BNP or whoever else. One day it'd be nice if we had SV or AMS perhaps, and in that scenario you'd rather the number backing the BNP or similar whack job shops would be nil. I tihink Reform may axe their commitment to PR if they win 20 seats as I expect them too, since that could allow Farage to implement the reverse hostile takeover of the rump Conservatives (who I seriously think must want a Canada 1993 style result at this point). But yes, Reform 20 seats to the Conservatives in single figures is wind up time surely and the Tories would go the way of the Progressive Conservative party of Canada. Again, they may even resist Farage rejoining then, but he could smply insist that Tories join him and it's naivety ad naseaum if people think frustrating Farage's attempts to jin the Tories again would hold back the floodgates. He has already lit the blue touch paper an is the arsonist burning down the Tory house in these parts. I'm feeling more and more sure that the Conservatives will be relegated to third party status in Essex (if they win anything at all in the county). The demographics in Essex (especially around Tilbury, Basildon, Canvey Island, Jaywick, Tendring, Frinton, and some other towns is too good for Reform.
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Post by AlltheGoodUsernamesAreTaken on Jun 28, 2024 16:17:33 GMT
Yes. I do. That is more than half the point of Reform and of Brexit. It is simple kick-back about being marginalised in one's own country at the behest of incomers about what we can and do say about anything. About our jokes, our terminology, and our absolute right to cause offence if we want to. That is the very essence of the freedom that the uber-woke are seeking to deny us. It will not end well. I hope. Farage is there to appeal to life's losers . The opinion polls show Farage is appealing to lots of 'life's losers'. Perhaps the sneering condescending tone shown by the main political parties might explain why they are driving so many to his banner.
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Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Jun 28, 2024 16:29:18 GMT
So it also turns out that this guy's other speciality is "rough talk", which may explain why he sounds like a bad Jim Davidson impressionist, and Farage alleges that he has actually worked for Channel 4. This is all looking off...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2024 16:30:28 GMT
So it also turns out that this guy's other speciality is "rough talk", which may explain why he sounds like a bad Jim Davidson impressionist, and Farage alleges that he has actually worked for Channel 4. This is all looking off... Is this a smear campaign to boost the disgruntled ex-Reform UK PPC for the seat and help stop Farage winning? It won't work, even kids here read the Daily Mail!
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Clacton
Jun 28, 2024 17:06:46 GMT
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Post by norflondon on Jun 28, 2024 17:06:46 GMT
Does sound like a set up. V naughty
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2024 17:08:30 GMT
Does sound like a set up. V naughty To be fair, he's worth setting up - Farage has only won under wanky proportional representation systems and woke nonsense inane List PR. He isn't invincible here.
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Post by mrpastelito on Jun 28, 2024 17:18:39 GMT
Yes. I do. That is more than half the point of Reform and of Brexit. It is simple kick-back about being marginalised in one's own country at the behest of incomers about what we can and do say about anything. About our jokes, our terminology, and our absolute right to cause offence if we want to. That is the very essence of the freedom that the uber-woke are seeking to deny us. It will not end well. I hope. Farage is there to appeal to life's losers . Only to those who don't compensate for being losers by believing themselves to be morally superior good people.
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Clacton
Jun 28, 2024 17:43:38 GMT
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Post by observer on Jun 28, 2024 17:43:38 GMT
Farage has released a video about the actor and C4 on his YT channel. Says there will be more media smears in the days to come
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right
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Post by right on Jun 28, 2024 20:25:02 GMT
I doubt it is as simple as an actor and I also don't see what motive John Snow's Channel Four has in helping the Tories You might be overthinking it. They're anti Farage - they don't want the narrative he promotes (which is the opposite to theirs) to be promoted. I don't think they would be thinking that Reform are going to damage the Conservatives therefore its worth promoting them. The Conservatives are finished in this election anyway - its not like its a close run thing where taking a few percent off the Conservative share is going to be the difference between Labour winning or losing. And in any case its simplistic to think Reform only pose a threat to the Conservatives. They're going to be Labour's problem when they're in government and it won't be just near misses in the likes of Heywood & Middleton.. That's an incentive to report embarrassing stories (which they should be doing anyway) and confirmation bias may mean they won't be as rigorous in standing then to as they should be. But it isn't a strong enough motive to hire an actor to manufacture a news story. Because that's what the accusation is.
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Sg1
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Post by Sg1 on Jun 28, 2024 21:52:38 GMT
What's more likely? Somebody (channel 4, conservatives?) clandestinely hired an actor to pose as a Reform activist and make racist comments in the hope that will somehow convinced Clacton residents to vote for Giles Watling instead of Nigel Farage, whom didn't even make the comments, or that a Reform activist who is also an actor just made an off the cuff racist comment while being recorded.
This whole thing brings to mind the Mitchell and Webb conspiracy sketches:
"We'll have the actor call Rishi Sunak a slur." "Brilliant, because if there's one thing that Reform voters singularly obsessed with immigration and disillusioned with the Conservative party can't tolerate, it's a racist slur being levied at Rishi Sunak."
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2024 2:21:26 GMT
I'm not convinced this was really a set up. It's a Trump-style talking point to say this was set up, IMO.
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right
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Clacton
Jun 29, 2024 4:27:56 GMT
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Post by right on Jun 29, 2024 4:27:56 GMT
What's more likely? Somebody (channel 4, conservatives?) clandestinely hired an actor to pose as a Reform activist and make racist comments in the hope that will somehow convinced Clacton residents to vote for Giles Watling instead of Nigel Farage, whom didn't even make the comments, or that a Reform activist who is also an actor just made an off the cuff racist comment while being recorded. This whole thing brings to mind the Mitchell and Webb conspiracy sketches: "We'll have the actor call Rishi Sunak a slur." "Brilliant, because if there's one thing that Reform voters singularly obsessed with immigration and disillusioned with the Conservative party can't tolerate, it's a racist slur being levied at Rishi Sunak." Ironically the only group who successfully set Farage up in that way where the BNP about two decades ago when one of their activists managed to pose with an unsuspecting Farage However the Tories fed that story knowing it was essentially rot But the BNP were facing an existential crisis with UKIP blocking any Le Pen style path into the right wing middle class. The Tories could be argued to be at an existential point due to Farage now, although I suspect they don't have the imagination to pull this stunt off - it would involve either deceiving Channel Four in quite a sophisticated way or it would involve bringing Channel Four into a plot to help the Tories. Neither is plausible.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2024 4:32:37 GMT
Farage set himself up - carpet-bagging seats and losing. Vote for the axed Reform candidate who's running independently. Have a commitment to party democracy.
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right
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Post by right on Jun 29, 2024 4:37:19 GMT
Farage set himself up - carpet-bagging seats and losing. Vote for the axed Reform candidate who's running independently. Have a commitment to party democracy. If party democracy is on your top ten list of important issues, don't touch Reform
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2024 4:40:41 GMT
Farage set himself up - carpet-bagging seats and losing. Vote for the axed Reform candidate who's running independently. Have a commitment to party democracy. If party democracy is on your top ten list of important issues, don't touch Reform Indeed. They actually can't replace the Tories as a party because they aren't a party but a private company as my reading about them would suggest. Why's that then?
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Clacton
Jun 29, 2024 8:18:44 GMT
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Post by observer on Jun 29, 2024 8:18:44 GMT
What's more likely? Somebody (channel 4, conservatives?) clandestinely hired an actor to pose as a Reform activist and make racist comments in the hope that will somehow convinced Clacton residents to vote for Giles Watling instead of Nigel Farage, whom didn't even make the comments, or that a Reform activist who is also an actor just made an off the cuff racist comment while being recorded. This whole thing brings to mind the Mitchell and Webb conspiracy sketches: "We'll have the actor call Rishi Sunak a slur." "Brilliant, because if there's one thing that Reform voters singularly obsessed with immigration and disillusioned with the Conservative party can't tolerate, it's a racist slur being levied at Rishi Sunak." Ironically the only group who successfully set Farage up in that way where the BNP about two decades ago when one of their activists managed to pose with an unsuspecting Farage However the Tories fed that story knowing it was essentially rot But the BNP were facing an existential crisis with UKIP blocking any Le Pen style path into the right wing middle class. The Tories could be argued to be at an existential point due to Farage now, although I suspect they don't have the imagination to pull this stunt off - it would involve either deceiving Channel Four in quite a sophisticated way or it would involve bringing Channel Four into a plot to help the Tories. Neither is plausible. The guy was acting. And whoever, if anyone, put him up to it simply wants to damage Reform. It's nothing to do with helping the Tories. It's quite clear that the Left desperately wants to damage Farage
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Clacton
Jun 29, 2024 8:40:37 GMT
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Post by norflondon on Jun 29, 2024 8:40:37 GMT
Centre wants him damaged just as much. This was done probably by the Remain centrists
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Post by iainbhx on Jun 29, 2024 8:42:34 GMT
Nice little red-brown alliance developing here I see.
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Clacton
Jun 29, 2024 8:43:19 GMT
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Post by observer on Jun 29, 2024 8:43:19 GMT
Centre wants him damaged just as much. This was done probably by the Remain centrists That's perfectly possible. Lots/most of the establishment have an interest in damaging Reform. They go berserk at anyone challenging their cosy consensus
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2024 8:49:49 GMT
It won't make a difference. Like Mussolini's March on Rome in 1922, nothing can stop Farage's success here now, even if there are dodgy Reform stormtroopers about.
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