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Post by doktorb🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ on Sept 19, 2024 22:39:41 GMT
This is excellent news. MPs holding surgeries are an entirely bad thing and should be actively discouraged. If the good people of Clacton wanted an MP who held lots of surgeries that could have elected the tosspot Lib Dem candidate. They rejected that option and voted for Farage. They knew what they were voting for a few will care whether or not he holds surgeries. Maybe you'd have a point (sic) if Farage had said before polling day that he wouldn't be holding surgeries. Then you might just be able to argue that the minority who voted for him "knew what they were voting for". Farage sold Leave without really explaining what people were voting for. It's just his nature. Consequences are for other people. |
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Sept 19, 2024 22:51:00 GMT
Maybe you'd have a point (sic) if Farage had said before polling day that he wouldn't be holding surgeries. Then you might just be able to argue that the minority who voted for him "knew what they were voting for". Farage sold Leave without really explaining what people were voting for. It's just his nature. Consequences are for other people. I knew exactly what I was voting for. I didn't need people to tell me what to think. |
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Post by eastmidlandsright on Sept 19, 2024 22:52:55 GMT
This is excellent news. MPs holding surgeries are an entirely bad thing and should be actively discouraged. If the good people of Clacton wanted an MP who held lots of surgeries that could have elected the tosspot Lib Dem candidate. They rejected that option and voted for Farage. They knew what they were voting for a few will care whether or not he holds surgeries. Maybe you'd have a point (sic) if Farage had said before polling day that he wouldn't be holding surgeries. Then you might just be able to argue that the minority who voted for him "knew what they were voting for". Do you have any examples of him saying he would hold surgeries? If not why would anybody assume that he would? And yes they knew what they were voting for. Farage is one of the most well known politicians in the country, few will have thought he had any interest holding surgeries for the assorted spastics, trouble makers and undesirables that turn up at such events. |
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cathyc
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Post by cathyc on Sept 19, 2024 23:56:17 GMT
Maybe you'd have a point (sic) if Farage had said before polling day that he wouldn't be holding surgeries. Then you might just be able to argue that the minority who voted for him "knew what they were voting for". Do you have any examples of him saying he would hold surgeries? If not why would anybody assume that he would? And yes they knew what they were voting for. Farage is one of the most well known politicians in the country, few will have thought he had any interest holding surgeries for the assorted spastics, trouble makers and undesirables that turn up at such events. I can't remember any other MP refusing to hold surgeries and that's why people would assume that he would. It's the natural default position and therefore it's not really incumbent on candidates to say they will hold them if elected but it's definitely required that lazy grifters say that they won't. He's even claiming that he intended to hold them and told LBC when asked if he was hosting in-person surgeries, "not yet" but that he would "when Parliament allows me" - whatever the hell that means. Now he claims that the Speaker's Office has advised him not to but they've said they have "no record" of saying that. Basically they're diplomatically not calling him a liar but they're saying he's lying. If he wasn't intending to run them, as you claim, then why would he even ask the question (ignoring the fact that he clearly hasn't)? And who else have the Office supposedly given this advice to? Farage cites the horrible murder of David Amess as reason to skive, but Amess' successor still held surgeries. The reality is that he has exactly the same disgusting opinions about the electorate and those with genuine issues to raise as you do with your vile comments. |
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right
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Post by right on Sept 20, 2024 7:00:41 GMT
This is excellent news. MPs holding surgeries are an entirely bad thing and should be actively discouraged. If the good people of Clacton wanted an MP who held lots of surgeries that could have elected the tosspot Lib Dem candidate. They rejected that option and voted for Farage. They knew what they were voting for a few will care whether or not he holds surgeries. I suspect this makes it more likely that he's a one term MP The accessibility of MPs is something people care about even if they don't go to surgeries, and will feature prominently on opposition leaflets if despite this strong indication Farage decides to stand again. |
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Post by doktorb🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ on Sept 20, 2024 7:48:06 GMT
Treating the electorate as a dirty group of nobodies whose only role in life is to elect you into a job that allows you to fly to America every other month is bold, I'll say that. MPs who only want a seat to get access to the Commons and influential people is very 18th century of him.
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Chris from Brum
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Post by Chris from Brum on Sept 20, 2024 8:14:47 GMT
It is to be expected that, as party leader, he will be given a place on a Select Committee, though we don't know which one yet. How seriously he takes that will be very telling. His record at the EU parliament was not brilliant, after all.
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Post by timrollpickering on Sept 20, 2024 8:43:50 GMT
It is to be expected that, as party leader, he will be given a place on a Select Committee, though we don't know which one yet. How seriously he takes that will be very telling. His record at the EU parliament was not brilliant, after all. I'm still waiting for someone to explain just what difference would have been made for the better had Farage attended more of those fishing committee meetings. What could he have actually achieved in the room? More than being a perpetual dissentient vote. |
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Post by cathyc on Sept 20, 2024 9:04:59 GMT
It is to be expected that, as party leader, he will be given a place on a Select Committee, though we don't know which one yet. How seriously he takes that will be very telling. His record at the EU parliament was not brilliant, after all. I'm still waiting for someone to explain just what difference would have been made for the better had Farage attended more of those fishing committee meetings. What could he have actually achieved in the room? More than being a perpetual dissentient vote. It probably would have made no difference at all if Farage had attended. Anybody else then maybe. It didn't stop him taking up the pla(i)ce though. Your question can probably be best answered with a rhetorical one in return. If committee appointments make no difference then why are Reform UK making such a fuss about the current allocation? |
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Post by timrollpickering on Sept 20, 2024 9:09:11 GMT
I'm still waiting for someone to explain just what difference would have been made for the better had Farage attended more of those fishing committee meetings. What could he have actually achieved in the room? More than being a perpetual dissentient vote. It probably would have made no difference at all if Farage had attended. Anybody else then maybe. It didn't stop him taking up the pla(i)ce though. Okay so what difference would have been made had one of the other Ukip MEPs, or at least one of those for a region with coast and fishing, had the slot? And if you mean an MEP from another party, how would things have been for the better to have a Lib Dem MEP who thought their purpose was to improve Eurobollocks and work in the EU interest? "Reform UK" and "making a fuss" in the same sentence is not unusual. |
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Post by sanders on Sept 20, 2024 9:13:41 GMT
To be fair, Reform is an effective libertarian party - you don't vote for Reform if you want an MP to solve your problems for you. Anderson pointed out that Farage is yet to set up shop vis-a-vis constituency surgeries. If there's a a risk of a Martin Horwood or Stephen Timms or David Amess type attack, then I would say, why bother putting your staff at risk. MPs are also employers and not one man bands. I don't even canvass on my own - I'm sure I'd want to be 100% certain that I and my staff are safe if I was doing surgeries. Even as Chancellor, I'm seriously considering a bullet proof chancellor mobile so I don't get shot at a la John Paul II or Ronald Reagan.
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cathyc
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Post by cathyc on Sept 20, 2024 9:18:56 GMT
It probably would have made no difference at all if Farage had attended. Anybody else then maybe. It didn't stop him taking up the pla(i)ce though. Okay so what difference would have been made had one of the other Ukip MEPs, or at least one of those for a region with coast and fishing, had the slot? And if you mean an MEP from another party, how would things have been for the better to have a Lib Dem MEP who thought their purpose was to improve Eurobollocks and work in the EU interest? "Reform UK" and "making a fuss" in the same sentence is not unusual. What difference has any MEP (or even MP) make on any committee? If none then you might have a point and let's just scrap them all. If no Conservative ever made any difference then at least be honest and say so. If differences have been made then that could have been done by UKIP. I don't recall them ever suggesting a cut in their own allowances for working part-time - anything but. |
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Post by timrollpickering on Sept 20, 2024 10:44:43 GMT
What difference has any MEP (or even MP) make on any committee? If none then you might have a point and let's just scrap them all. Well we've scrapped UK MEPs. Some have made a difference but it heavily depends on their aims, the overall majority and their roles. But Farage's critics on this have never explained how Farage attending more meetings would have made the Common Fisheries Policy better than if he hadn't been in the room antagonising people. "ever" is wrong. It was the position of the Sked-era that Ukip would not recognise the legitimacy of the EU Parliament, would not go to it and would donate MEP salaries to the NHS. This was one of the things that changed after he left (it may even have been the issue he officially chose to resign over). Ukip then took their seats to be a party of protest within the parliament and rather than advocating a cut in allowances they advocated cutting the jobs altogether. If the electorate didn't like it they didn't have to vote for it - but this is one of the things PR gave us. |
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Sept 20, 2024 11:22:06 GMT
I think that most voters *do* expect their MP to be easily contactable, if not by regular surgeries then by some other means. Indeed the marked tendency for backbenchers in particular to gravitate towards quasi-social work roles has been widely commented on (and not always favourably, of course)
Yes, lots of people in Clacton "knew what Farage was like" when they elected him - but I doubt if they are *that* different from electors elsewhere more generally.
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Post by aargauer on Sept 20, 2024 12:08:56 GMT
Do you have any examples of him saying he would hold surgeries? If not why would anybody assume that he would? And yes they knew what they were voting for. Farage is one of the most well known politicians in the country, few will have thought he had any interest holding surgeries for the assorted spastics, trouble makers and undesirables that turn up at such events. I can't remember any other MP refusing to hold surgeries and that's why people would assume that he would. It's the natural default position and therefore it's not really incumbent on candidates to say they will hold them if elected but it's definitely required that lazy grifters say that they won't. He's even claiming that he intended to hold them and told LBC when asked if he was hosting in-person surgeries, "not yet" but that he would "when Parliament allows me" - whatever the hell that means. Now he claims that the Speaker's Office has advised him not to but they've said they have "no record" of saying that. Basically they're diplomatically not calling him a liar but they're saying he's lying. If he wasn't intending to run them, as you claim, then why would he even ask the question (ignoring the fact that he clearly hasn't)? And who else have the Office supposedly given this advice to? Farage cites the horrible murder of David Amess as reason to skive, but Amess' successor still held surgeries. The reality is that he has exactly the same disgusting opinions about the electorate and those with genuine issues to raise as you do with your vile comments. If I were an MP I wouldn't do surgeries either. I'd have meetings on request if they relate meaningfully to parliamentary business. That is to say someone has a forceful point that a point of law is wrong. Which would usually be largely apolitical and not the local trots having a rant. MPs shouldn't give a shit about dog poo, potholes and cats being stuck up trees. I think a triage system asking people to contact their local councillor is not unreasonable. Of course, breaking the link between 1 MP = 1 constituency would mean MPs wouldn't need to pretend to be interested in local nutters. |
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cathyc
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Post by cathyc on Sept 20, 2024 12:39:12 GMT
What difference has any MEP (or even MP) make on any committee? If none then you might have a point and let's just scrap them all. Well we've scrapped UK MEPs. Some have made a difference but it heavily depends on their aims, the overall majority and their roles. But Farage's critics on this have never explained how Farage attending more meetings would have made the Common Fisheries Policy better than if he hadn't been in the room antagonising people. "ever" is wrong. It was the position of the Sked-era that Ukip would not recognise the legitimacy of the EU Parliament, would not go to it and would donate MEP salaries to the NHS. This was one of the things that changed after he left (it may even have been the issue he officially chose to resign over). Ukip then took their seats to be a party of protest within the parliament and rather than advocating a cut in allowances they advocated cutting the jobs altogether. If the electorate didn't like it they didn't have to vote for it - but this is one of the things PR gave us. I just wish that anybody who justifies the actions of any councillor/MP/MEP by saying that people knew what they were voting for would extend the same license to all other parties. Or they're basically saying that all elected representatives are beyond criticism because they're in post based on votes in the ballot box. That's clearly nonsensical and needs to be ridiculed. As for UKIP's activities in the EU Parliament pre and post Sked. Whether they supported the institutions or not they were there to represent their electorate. Various parties have representatives in all sorts of bodies that they think should never have been established in the first place or that they think should be abolished - the Conservatives in Holyrood the Senedd; others in the House of Lords and PCCs. That doesn't mean that they don't stand for election to these positions or that they should take a slash and burn attitude if elected - or, even worse, take the cash but make little of the effort. If UKIP were elected to oppose the existence of the EU Parliament then they should have turned up more often to put their case. They could even have voted for proposals aimed at democratising the process. But that was usually when they were at their most vociferous in opposing them. The Lib Dems that you mention were probably at the forefront of trying to make things more democratic and you, of all people, should not be carping about that because, after all, they were elected on that basis. Instead you say it was "their purpose was to improve Eurobollocks and work in the EU interest." You can either support UKIP's nihilistic approach on the basis that it's their right to do so as elected representatives or you can attack Lib Dems and others for putting forward more constructive suggestions, but not both. |
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cathyc
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Post by cathyc on Sept 20, 2024 12:46:30 GMT
I can't remember any other MP refusing to hold surgeries and that's why people would assume that he would. It's the natural default position and therefore it's not really incumbent on candidates to say they will hold them if elected but it's definitely required that lazy grifters say that they won't. He's even claiming that he intended to hold them and told LBC when asked if he was hosting in-person surgeries, "not yet" but that he would "when Parliament allows me" - whatever the hell that means. Now he claims that the Speaker's Office has advised him not to but they've said they have "no record" of saying that. Basically they're diplomatically not calling him a liar but they're saying he's lying. If he wasn't intending to run them, as you claim, then why would he even ask the question (ignoring the fact that he clearly hasn't)? And who else have the Office supposedly given this advice to? Farage cites the horrible murder of David Amess as reason to skive, but Amess' successor still held surgeries. The reality is that he has exactly the same disgusting opinions about the electorate and those with genuine issues to raise as you do with your vile comments. I'd have meetings on request if they relate meaningfully to parliamentary business. That is to say someone has a forceful point that a point of law is wrong. Which would usually be largely apolitical and not the local trots having a rant. MPs shouldn't give a shit about dog poo, potholes and cats being stuck up trees. I think a triage system asking people to contact their local councillor is not unreasonable. Of course, breaking the link between 1 MP = 1 constituency would mean MPs wouldn't need to pretend to be interested in local nutters. Then put that in a personal manifesto. Plan B would be the Farage Approach. Pretend that you will have surgeries; say that you'll do them "as soon as Parliament will allow"; lie about having contacted the Speaker's Office who advised you not to do them; lie that they would say this even if they had been asked; make some pathetic statement about being afraid of knife crime as though you were the only MP facing the issue; fly off at hugely inflated expense paid for by a hedge fund manager to the crimeless, knife-free, gun-free USA. |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Sept 20, 2024 13:01:58 GMT
MPs shouldn't give a shit about dog poo, potholes and cats being stuck up trees. I think a triage system asking people to contact their local councillor is not unreasonable. I doubt those three subjects form much of the workload of MPs' surgeries. And don't most MPs already operate a triage system for their surgeries with booked appointments and advanced notice of subject? |
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Post by timrollpickering on Sept 20, 2024 13:05:04 GMT
And don't most MPs already operate a triage system for their surgeries with booked appointments and advanced notice of subject? Not sure if it's most but certainly there are many who don't do open door surgeries and I think some don't actually use the word "surgery" (and may even say "I don't do surgeries", meaning the open door ones) but they don't get so much attention. |
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hengog
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Post by hengog on Sept 20, 2024 13:21:01 GMT
My impression too is that few MPs still conduct open surgeries. My daughter’s MP , Angela Eagle was , or said she was (and I’ve no reason to doubt her) advised by the police to stop face to face surgeries following threats and bullying by leftists when she opposed Jeremy Corbyn. There’s nothing on her website to indicate she has resumed them. It’s a shame of course to see something which we were I think proud of in our country , even if it did feel like a bit of a quaint survival from an earlier time, disappear. But it was inevitable. And frankly no one could honestly expect someone as controversial as Farage to expose himself to that much risk. Whether he has lied or not about it, I have no idea.
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