Clacton

[matureleft]

Aug 27, 2024 9:11:52 GMT carlton43 said:

Aug 27, 2024 8:57:26 GMT matureleft said:

Good luck with seeking re-election in anything like a marginal seat with that attitude and approach...

That is quite irrelevant to my central point on the real purpose of an MP and your very modernist take of it being only about the means of engineering an election.

Most MPs on the left and many on the semi-right completely misunderstand the nature and purpose of being an MP and it is drawing in people ill-suited to the task through lack of necessary experience, training and character.  That job is about painstaking attention to detail, legalism, quick accurate absorption of an overview, broad view conspectus, and lucid oratory.  The very last thing the HOC needs is a bunch of emotional social workers special pleading hard cases, and often about foreigners and immigrants who are of no interest or account to the nation.

I am too old to be seeking election and would not wish to under current daft rules and regulations hampering my private and business life.  If I was younger I would engineer selection for Weald/Mid Kent where I would be a good fit and perfectly safe and unlikely to have much in the way of ethnic and underclass sob story 'issues' to ignore.

We may disagree less than you imagine but you are leaping past some critical elements.

In our very British way we've muddled along, adapting a constitution designed for a very different form of government to something like a modern western democracy.

MPs have existed for centuries. Almost all of them, until 1832, and most of them until long after, took their places through either patronage or personal local control. They would occupy that position for a wide variety of reasons - many of them for little more than status. We only reached some level of universal suffrage just less than 100 years ago (when younger women were given the vote). 

I delivered a speech on the evolving role of MPs and our collective failure to think through what the implication of that was and whether it was desirable. I know it has subsequently been used in teaching at least once. Here's a link. www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2010-04-07b.1146.0&s=speaker%3A10598#g1146.2

At some point we should think more deeply and strategically about how our constitution works. Our incremental, ad hoc and sometimes narrowly partisan fiddling is appealing in some ways (it saves time and processes) but serves us ill.

[cathyc]

Aug 27, 2024 9:54:23 GMT carlton43 said:

Aug 27, 2024 9:39:42 GMT cathyc said:

You don't even agree with democracy anyway and yet continue to stalk the halls of an election forum.  It does make your views on parliamentary duties somewhat redundant and almost certainly mischief making.

Ah!  Just so much to like in that post.

"...stalk the halls of an election forum."

And you suggesting that another member was "...certainly mischief making."  That is a corker and no mistake.

My views on an MP's parliamentary duties are indeed entirely correct, and those modernist, revisionist views by people such as yourself are the damaging nonsense, not mine.

None of which gets round the fact that you have commented many times that you don't support democracy in the first instance.  Advice from you on how it could be improved is quite literally worthless.

[carlton43]

Aug 27, 2024 10:12:58 GMT cathyc said:

Aug 27, 2024 9:54:23 GMT carlton43 said:

Ah!  Just so much to like in that post.

"...stalk the halls of an election forum."

And you suggesting that another member was "...certainly mischief making."  That is a corker and no mistake.

My views on an MP's parliamentary duties are indeed entirely correct, and those modernist, revisionist views by people such as yourself are the damaging nonsense, not mine.

None of which gets round the fact that you have commented many times that you don't support democracy in the first instance.  Advice from you on how it could be improved is quite literally worthless.

The latter part is terribly false thinking by you.

Advice and comment is as poor or as good as the core content it contains and has nothing to do with who thought it, said it or the platform through which it is published.

You modernists condemn all opinion if given by say Trump or through say GB News.  That is a very severe demerit and mistake.  Odious people can be right and even interesting in their comments.  Derided and reviled publishers can publish important and useful material. 

It is the material that matters and to see taint that automatically condemns a view by the nature of the conveying of that opinion evidences a weak mind and a shallow perspective.

[Merseymike]

Aug 27, 2024 9:11:52 GMT carlton43 said:

Aug 27, 2024 8:57:26 GMT matureleft said:

Good luck with seeking re-election in anything like a marginal seat with that attitude and approach...

That is quite irrelevant to my central point on the real purpose of an MP and your very modernist take of it being only about the means of engineering an election.

Most MPs on the left and many on the semi-right completely misunderstand the nature and purpose of being an MP and it is drawing in people ill-suited to the task through lack of necessary experience, training and character.  That job is about painstaking attention to detail, legalism, quick accurate absorption of an overview, broad view conspectus, and lucid oratory.  The very last thing the HOC needs is a bunch of emotional social workers special pleading hard cases, and often about foreigners and immigrants who are of no interest or account to the nation.

I am too old to be seeking election and would not wish to under current daft rules and regulations hampering my private and business life.  If I was younger I would engineer selection for Weald/Mid Kent where I would be a good fit and perfectly safe and unlikely to have much in the way of ethnic and underclass sob story 'issues' to ignore.

Most issues about the rather tedious suggestions (ethnicity, poverty) are simply social and political. Reality.

The question is why an MP exists. Certainly an MP, whether Sir Keith Joseph, and Roy Hattersley, have talked about the monthly visit to the local party. That now doesn't happen. MP's do casework, and certainly the 'constituency MP' are involved with this work. Those involved with committee work are also important.

The local MP is the area which they represent -local people expect help. That is why we have caseworkers.

As for modernist or revisionist, put up with it. It's not the 50's.

[carlton43]

Aug 27, 2024 11:45:20 GMT Merseymike said:

Aug 27, 2024 9:11:52 GMT carlton43 said:

That is quite irrelevant to my central point on the real purpose of an MP and your very modernist take of it being only about the means of engineering an election.

Most MPs on the left and many on the semi-right completely misunderstand the nature and purpose of being an MP and it is drawing in people ill-suited to the task through lack of necessary experience, training and character.  That job is about painstaking attention to detail, legalism, quick accurate absorption of an overview, broad view conspectus, and lucid oratory.  The very last thing the HOC needs is a bunch of emotional social workers special pleading hard cases, and often about foreigners and immigrants who are of no interest or account to the nation.

I am too old to be seeking election and would not wish to under current daft rules and regulations hampering my private and business life.  If I was younger I would engineer selection for Weald/Mid Kent where I would be a good fit and perfectly safe and unlikely to have much in the way of ethnic and underclass sob story 'issues' to ignore.

Most issues about the rather tedious suggestions (ethnicity, poverty) are simply social and political. Reality.

The question is why an MP exists. Certainly an MP, whether Sir Keith Joseph, and Roy Hattersley, have talked about the monthly visit to the local party. That now doesn't happen. MP's do casework, and certainly the 'constituency MP' are involved with this work. Those involved with committee work are also important.

The local MP is the area which they represent -local people expect help. That is why we have caseworkers.

As for modernist or revisionist, put up with it. It's not the 50's.

It is not a problem for me Mike and I am not affronted or upset by the modernist assumptions and activities of many MPs and commentators such as yourself.  It is just that it conflicts with what I feel to be the nature and purpose of being an MP.  I don't think that most of the activities that are subsumed within the term casework should be done at all by MPs or impinge upon their time and energies.  I think MPs should be concerned with HOC matters above and in front of all else.  If the casework element is to be done through an MP's office then I wish it to be entirely done by caseworkers with next to no involvement by the MP himself.

[Merseymike]

I just don't think it will happen....

[Chris from Brum]

Private Eye has joined in the party, Eye 1631 p27, "Rare Sighting Claimed" , Loch Ness Monster holidaying in Clacton claimed to have seen Farage on the pier in Clacton.

[aargauer]

I've never voted for reform nor ukip before them but in a rare moment I'm with carlton43 in that the last thing I'd want in an MP is some principle free dog poo obsessed pot hole pointing localist.

Part of the attraction of PR is that MPs would focus on running their country rather than wasting their time attending ghastly local fete.

This should be for local councillors.

[riccimarsh]

Aug 28, 2024 20:05:57 GMT aargauer said:

I've never voted for reform nor ukip before them but in a rare moment I'm with carlton43 in that the last thing I'd want in an MP is some principle free dog poo obsessed pot hole pointing localist.

Part of the attraction of PR is that MPs would focus on running their country rather than wasting their time attending ghastly local fete.

I’m certain that a very large percentage of so-called “casework” should be properly addressed to a local councillor rather than the local MP. MP’s should be much more discerning about which, if any, cases they take on, and the rest should be rapidly dispatched elsewhere.

[timrollpickering]

I can remember even in the 1990s when my local MP referred a letter to the (relevant) council and got lambasted in the local paper for passing the issue on.

[john07]

Aug 28, 2024 20:31:41 GMT riccimarsh said:

Aug 28, 2024 20:05:57 GMT aargauer said:

I've never voted for reform nor ukip before them but in a rare moment I'm with carlton43 in that the last thing I'd want in an MP is some principle free dog poo obsessed pot hole pointing localist.

Part of the attraction of PR is that MPs would focus on running their country rather than wasting their time attending ghastly local fete.

I’m certain that a very large percentage of so-called “casework” should be properly addressed to a local councillor rather than the local MP. MP’s should be much more discerning about which, if any, cases they take on, and the rest should be rapidly dispatched elsewhere.

Provided it was a list system of PR.

STV would make things much worse as evidenced by Ireland.

[No Offence Alan]

Aug 28, 2024 20:31:41 GMT riccimarsh said:

Aug 28, 2024 20:05:57 GMT aargauer said:

I've never voted for reform nor ukip before them but in a rare moment I'm with carlton43 in that the last thing I'd want in an MP is some principle free dog poo obsessed pot hole pointing localist.

Part of the attraction of PR is that MPs would focus on running their country rather than wasting their time attending ghastly local fete.

I’m certain that a very large percentage of so-called “casework” should be properly addressed to a local councillor rather than the local MP. MP’s should be much more discerning about which, if any, cases they take on, and the rest should be rapidly dispatched elsewhere.

And if the offending company or government body just ignores the councillor?

[riccimarsh]

Aug 28, 2024 20:55:39 GMT No Offence Alan said:

Aug 28, 2024 20:31:41 GMT riccimarsh said:

I’m certain that a very large percentage of so-called “casework” should be properly addressed to a local councillor rather than the local MP. MP’s should be much more discerning about which, if any, cases they take on, and the rest should be rapidly dispatched elsewhere.

And if the offending company or government body just ignores the councillor?

Then things could be escalated. But in the first instance, a councillor is often the most appropriate individual to deal with a local issue. The MP should be more focussed on the issues outlined here by others.

[pl]

Aug 28, 2024 20:31:41 GMT riccimarsh said:

Aug 28, 2024 20:05:57 GMT aargauer said:

I've never voted for reform nor ukip before them but in a rare moment I'm with carlton43 in that the last thing I'd want in an MP is some principle free dog poo obsessed pot hole pointing localist.

Part of the attraction of PR is that MPs would focus on running their country rather than wasting their time attending ghastly local fete.

I’m certain that a very large percentage of so-called “casework” should be properly addressed to a local councillor rather than the local MP. MP’s should be much more discerning about which, if any, cases they take on, and the rest should be rapidly dispatched elsewhere.

The largest volume of MP "casework" is actually "campaigns". By that I mean charities/ campaigning organisations who do emails like "click here to tell your MP how important it is to save the Lesser Spotted Moldovan Pigmy Giraffe."

All the emails are identical. When contacted about their email, a decent percentage have forgotten they've sent them, and less people than you think expect a response.

Such casework was a fraction of its current levels just a few parliaments ago.

MPs also deal with a lot of personal correspondence dealing with very complex issues.

[riccimarsh]

Aug 28, 2024 22:12:57 GMT pl said:

Aug 28, 2024 20:31:41 GMT riccimarsh said:

I’m certain that a very large percentage of so-called “casework” should be properly addressed to a local councillor rather than the local MP. MP’s should be much more discerning about which, if any, cases they take on, and the rest should be rapidly dispatched elsewhere.

The largest volume of MP "casework" is actually "campaigns". By that I mean charities/ campaigning organisations who do emails like "click here to tell your MP how important it is to save the Lesser Spotted Moldovan Pigmy Giraffe."

All the emails are identical. When contacted about their email, a decent percentage have forgotten they've sent them, and less people than you think expect a response.

Such casework was a fraction of its current levels just a few parliaments ago.

MPs also deal with a lot of personal correspondence dealing with very complex issues.

Personal correspondence dealing with very complex issues: fine. But if possible refer to someone more appropriate.

Email spam: delete.

[Chris from Brum]

Well, apparently Nige won't be holding constituency surgeries because of the possibility/probability of a knife attack.

www.essexlive.news/news/essex-news/nigel-farage-wont-hold-clacton-9566870

At what stage do the residents of Clacton realise that they're being taken for a ride by the man-frog?

[eastmidlandsright]

Sept 19, 2024 20:33:11 GMT Chris from Brum said:

Well, apparently Nige won't be holding constituency surgeries because of the possibility/probability of a knife attack.

www.essexlive.news/news/essex-news/nigel-farage-wont-hold-clacton-9566870

At what stage do the residents of Clacton realise that they're being taken for a ride by the man-frog?

This is excellent news. MPs holding surgeries are an entirely bad thing and should be actively discouraged. 

If the good people of Clacton wanted an MP who held lots of surgeries that could have elected the tosspot Lib Dem candidate. They rejected that option and voted for Farage. They knew what they were voting for a few will care whether or not he holds surgeries.  

[ccoleman]

Sept 19, 2024 20:33:11 GMT Chris from Brum said:

Well, apparently Nige won't be holding constituency surgeries because of the possibility/probability of a knife attack.

www.essexlive.news/news/essex-news/nigel-farage-wont-hold-clacton-9566870

At what stage do the residents of Clacton realise that they're being taken for a ride by the man-frog?

He's a very fitting MP for this constituency - I mean, Clacton isn't exactly a hotbed of the politically engaged. I doubt the average person here knows what a constituency surgery even is. 

[cathyc]

Sept 19, 2024 22:09:04 GMT eastmidlandsright said:

Sept 19, 2024 20:33:11 GMT Chris from Brum said:

Well, apparently Nige won't be holding constituency surgeries because of the possibility/probability of a knife attack.

www.essexlive.news/news/essex-news/nigel-farage-wont-hold-clacton-9566870

At what stage do the residents of Clacton realise that they're being taken for a ride by the man-frog?

This is excellent news. MPs holding surgeries are an entirely bad thing and should be actively discouraged. 

If the good people of Clacton wanted an MP who held lots of surgeries that could have elected the tosspot Lib Dem candidate. They rejected that option and voted for Farage. They knew what they were voting for a few will care whether or not he holds surgeries.  

Maybe you'd have a point (sic) if Farage had said before polling day that he wouldn't be holding surgeries.  Then you might just be able to argue that the minority who voted for him "knew what they were voting for".

[doktorb🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️]

Sept 19, 2024 20:33:11 GMT Chris from Brum said:

Well, apparently Nige won't be holding constituency surgeries because of the possibility/probability of a knife attack.

www.essexlive.news/news/essex-news/nigel-farage-wont-hold-clacton-9566870

At what stage do the residents of Clacton realise that they're being taken for a ride by the man-frog?

Grifter going to grift!

We all knew this was going to happen. He was bored of being a talking head, needed a financial top-up now the MEP gig has stopped, and will spend a lovely old time going to Trump rallies more times than his constituents could count on both hands. 

Brexit was a con that should be reversed. His election is a con that will be reversed.