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Post by arnieetc on Jul 9, 2013 8:30:48 GMT
I'm not very clued in on Welsh politics, and I read this at first as saying that he was currently the Tory Assembly leader. A very big scalp, I thought... There haven't been any big Tory scalps in Wales for over twenty years, James. They are an English party, no more. An English Party that came second in the most recent Welsh Assembly elections, ahead of Plaid? |
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Post by Merseymike on Jul 9, 2013 9:53:55 GMT
Still appears that the vast majority of UKIP defections are coming from the Conservatives
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Post by finsobruce on Jul 9, 2013 20:46:32 GMT
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cibwr
Plaid Cymru
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Post by cibwr on Jul 10, 2013 7:56:53 GMT
I'm not very clued in on Welsh politics, and I read this at first as saying that he was currently the Tory Assembly leader. A very big scalp, I thought... No a former Tory Leader, followed by David Davies - of Monmouth, for half an hour until the tory group met to remove him as leader. |
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Post by Devonian on Jul 19, 2013 16:52:56 GMT
According to Nigel Farage's Twitter John Wilson of Hastings Borough Council, Conservative to UKIP
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dazza
Non-Aligned
Posts: 134
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Post by dazza on Jul 20, 2013 6:27:03 GMT
Three Havering Tories defect to UKIP.
Pg. 7 of this weeks Romford Recorder. Havering Tories, or at least the Romford lot, are falling apart, very publicly.The defections are from two Cllrs who did not stand again as they would not have got re-selected, and a third who was deselected.Basically the 'Hitler Youth' faction around local MP Rosindell are getting rid of anyone they don't like.UKIP now have 4 members on Havering Council, and the Tory majority is down to about 4. I am predicting Tory meltdown in Havering, as this will not go away.
Many others have been deselected including the current Mayor Eric Munday (who they said was moving to France, which he is not !).
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Pimpernal
Forum Regular
A left-wing agenda within a right-wing framework...
Posts: 2,873
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Post by Pimpernal on Jul 20, 2013 6:43:06 GMT
I think one of the reasons the Tories are particularly prone to defectees to UKIP, apart from them being in govt, is the nature of many local Tory parties.
Where the Party is dominant locally to such an extent that some seats will never normally be shifted away from the tories, anyone who is simply interested in representing their local community and hasn't a wider political axe to wield, has little choice but to become a tory if they ever want to be elected. These people will generally vote along with their party in the Council as part of the deal. They may not like what they have to vote for sometimes, and might not feel particularly loyal to the national leadership, but that's the price for representing their local people and as long as they play ball, they don't get deselected from their safe seat.
UKIP, with it's no-whip policy and focus on representing local people, becomes particularly attractive to those cllrs especially if it becomes possible that they could get re-elected as a UKIPper next time - or if they don't intend to stand again.
There are several locally that fit this sort of situation...
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Post by Devonian on Jul 20, 2013 8:52:24 GMT
Basically the 'Hitler Youth' faction around local MP Rosindell are getting rid of anyone they don't like. Who are these 'Hilter Youth' faction? Is it an ideological split(I know Rosindell is famously right wing) or just personality politics (or perhaps as usual the former being used as an excuse for the latter)? |
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Post by Devonian on Jul 20, 2013 8:55:01 GMT
I think one of the reasons the Tories are particularly prone to defectees to UKIP, apart from them being in govt, is the nature of many local Tory parties. Where the Party is dominant locally to such an extent that some seats will never normally be shifted away from the tories, anyone who is simply interested in representing their local community and hasn't a wider political axe to wield, has little choice but to become a tory if they ever want to be elected. These people will generally vote along with their party in the Council as part of the deal. They may not like what they have to vote for sometimes, and might not feel particularly loyal to the national leadership, but that's the price for representing their local people and as long as they play ball, they don't get deselected from their safe seat. I would say that's true of Labour in many areas as well |
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dazza
Non-Aligned
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Post by dazza on Jul 20, 2013 9:13:06 GMT
It is a group of mainly young men closely allied to Rosindell, the people who are being got rid of are older Tories and many dirty tricks have been used.Appeals have been made to Central Office, but not likely to be successful.The local Tories have always been divided, I remember years ago when I was a Labour Councillor in Barking, I had to attend a boundary review at Romford Town Hall, and it was obvious even then that the Hornchurch Tories hated the Romford lot, especially the then Councillor Rosindell.
It is also about personalities, they got rid of the, shall we say 'colourful', Cllr Albie Tebbutt and he was pretty right wing.There has also been a battle for control of Romford Tory club with locks being changed by the now deselected Cllr Munday.
Historically Havering Tories have not been that ideologically driven.Now it is a battle for the soul of the party being played out in the local paper.
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seanf
Non-Aligned
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Post by seanf on Jul 20, 2013 9:28:52 GMT
Havering would be likely to see a strong UKIP vote in any case in 2014. These splits make things even easier. I wonder if UKIP could even take the council.
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dazza
Non-Aligned
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Post by dazza on Jul 20, 2013 9:42:37 GMT
This is very likely, UKIP won a by election in Harold Hill, and I think they could do well in Romford and Upminster.
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Post by Devonian on Jul 20, 2013 10:16:02 GMT
It is a group of mainly young men closely allied to Rosindell, the people who are being got rid of are older Tories and many dirty tricks have been used.Appeals have been made to Central Office, but not likely to be successful.The local Tories have always been divided, I remember years ago when I was a Labour Councillor in Barking, I had to attend a boundary review at Romford Town Hall, and it was obvious even then that the Hornchurch Tories hated the Romford lot, especially the then Councillor Rosindell. It is also about personalities, they got rid of the, shall we say 'colourful', Cllr Albie Tebbutt and he was pretty right wing.There has also been a battle for control of Romford Tory club with locks being changed by the now deselected Cllr Munday. Historically Havering Tories have not been that ideologically driven.Now it is a battle for the soul of the party being played out in the local paper. Out of curiosity does Angela Watkinson take any part in this politicking? |
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dazza
Non-Aligned
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Post by dazza on Jul 20, 2013 10:25:05 GMT
It appears not, just the Romford Tories.
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Post by Andrew_S on Jul 22, 2013 16:34:48 GMT
Beata Brookes, who unsuccessfully attempted to replace Anthony Meyer as Tory candidate for Clwyd NW in 1983 after he was the only Conservative MP to refuse to support the use of force to liberate the Falklands, defected to UKIP in May: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-22399978 |
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Pimpernal
Forum Regular
A left-wing agenda within a right-wing framework...
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Post by Pimpernal on Jul 22, 2013 16:56:25 GMT
Beata Brookes, who unsuccessfully attempted to replace Anthony Meyer as Tory candidate for Clwyd NW in 1983 after he was the only Conservative MP to refuse to support the use of force to liberate the Falklands, defected to UKIP in May: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-22399978Oh - sounds like for our YI group then... |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jul 22, 2013 19:00:50 GMT
Wasn't that reported in May?
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dfl
Non-Aligned
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Post by dfl on Jul 22, 2013 20:11:35 GMT
Cllr John Wilson, formerly Tory on Hastings BC, has joined UKIP. After the Tories lost all their seats in 1997 John won the first Tory seat back and as more joined him he was elected Leader and served until 2005. Apparently he was under pressure to stand down as the party wanted younger councillors and refused, eventually being deselected.
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Post by Devonian on Jul 23, 2013 5:52:16 GMT
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Richard Allen
Banned
Four time loser in VUKPOTY finals
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Post by Richard Allen on Jul 23, 2013 12:37:01 GMT
John was Deputy Leader of the Tory group. |
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