|
|
Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Nov 21, 2024 16:52:42 GMT
Are we even surprised at this point? Same thing happens here in certain communities with postal voting, but people are too gutless to talk about it. Which communities? In this country, Pakistani, Bangladeshi etc. The extreme and oppressive patriarchal nature of familial relations in those communities leads to the male head of the household ordering postal votes for the whole family, filling them in himself and then sending them. It's an open secret, but it's hard to prove and it raises questions that people of a certain political persuasion are afraid to ask. |
|
cathyc
Non-Aligned
Posts: 1,127
Member is Online
|
Post by cathyc on Nov 21, 2024 16:56:12 GMT
In this country, Pakistani, Bangladeshi etc. The extreme and oppressive patriarchal nature of familial relations in those communities leads to the male head of the household ordering postal votes for the whole family, filling them in himself and then sending them. It's an open secret, but it's hard to prove and it raises questions that people of a certain political persuasion are afraid to ask. Which political persuasion? |
|
|
|
Post by rcronald on Nov 21, 2024 17:20:20 GMT
In this country, Pakistani, Bangladeshi etc. The extreme and oppressive patriarchal nature of familial relations in those communities leads to the male head of the household ordering postal votes for the whole family, filling them in himself and then sending them. It's an open secret, but it's hard to prove and it raises questions that people of a certain political persuasion are afraid to ask. Not even a secret…. |
|
|
|
Post by agedlikewine on Nov 21, 2024 17:38:57 GMT
In this country, Pakistani, Bangladeshi etc. The extreme and oppressive patriarchal nature of familial relations in those communities leads to the male head of the household ordering postal votes for the whole family, filling them in himself and then sending them. It's an open secret, but it's hard to prove and it raises questions that people of a certain political persuasion are afraid to ask. Why not mention Indian families too who also have the man of the house dictate how to vote? This has nothing to do with what happened in Belgium though. What Emir Kir did was abuse proxy votes from people who are otherwise apolitical/disinterested. |
|
|
|
Post by agedlikewine on Nov 21, 2024 19:37:56 GMT
In this country, Pakistani, Bangladeshi etc. The extreme and oppressive patriarchal nature of familial relations in those communities leads to the male head of the household ordering postal votes for the whole family, filling them in himself and then sending them. It's an open secret, but it's hard to prove and it raises questions that people of a certain political persuasion are afraid to ask. Not even a secret…. How does the Hindu social conservative vote rcdonald? Can you tell us if women in their families are allowed a free vote? And if so which party do they support? |
|
|
|
Post by carlton43 on Nov 21, 2024 20:46:52 GMT
In this country, Pakistani, Bangladeshi etc. The extreme and oppressive patriarchal nature of familial relations in those communities leads to the male head of the household ordering postal votes for the whole family, filling them in himself and then sending them. It's an open secret, but it's hard to prove and it raises questions that people of a certain political persuasion are afraid to ask. Why not mention Indian families too who also have the man of the house dictate how to vote? This has nothing to do with what happened in Belgium though. What Emir Kir did was abuse proxy votes from people who are otherwise apolitical/disinterested. It is but a small step and many of us feel pretty sure they do that as well. |
|
|
|
Post by agedlikewine on Nov 21, 2024 21:24:34 GMT
Why not mention Indian families too who also have the man of the house dictate how to vote? This has nothing to do with what happened in Belgium though. What Emir Kir did was abuse proxy votes from people who are otherwise apolitical/disinterested. It is but a small step and many of us feel pretty sure they do that as well. I don't think Forfarshire Conservative does though. I would like to hear from him. Why did he single out Pakistani and Bangladeshi-origin voters and not Indian? Because he assumes they vote Labour, that would be my guess. He also managed to be completely wrong on the phenomenon at play in this case of vote rigging. Will he retract that statement too? |
|
|
|
Post by rcronald on Nov 21, 2024 22:37:24 GMT
How does the Hindu social conservative vote rcdonald? Can you tell us if women in their families are allowed a free vote? And if so which party do they support? It’s also a problem with socially conservative Hindu families and Ultra-Orthodox Jews. |
|
|
|
Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Nov 21, 2024 23:27:27 GMT
It is but a small step and many of us feel pretty sure they do that as well. I don't think Forfarshire Conservative does though. I would like to hear from him. Why did he single out Pakistani and Bangladeshi-origin voters and not Indian? Because he assumes they vote Labour, that would be my guess. He also managed to be completely wrong on the phenomenon at play in this case of vote rigging. Will he retract that statement too? I do actually, but it's less common. I mentioned Bangladeshi and Pakistani etc. because they're the groups where I have heard directly about issues, i.e. from people who grew up in those communities. It is, as rcronald says, also an issue in Haredi communities. It may also be an issue in some ultra-conservative Christian communities. However, I must thank you for making my point for me. I raise, in a rather bland manner, a concern about iffy voting practices and your immediate response is to act in the manner you have, with the underlying insinuations of partisanship or worse. This is why mot people don't talk about it. Secondly, for the record, it's not because they vote Labour. Perhaps you haven't noticed, but I am in Scotland and many don't vote Labour, they vote SNP too. In other parts of the country, they might vote for the Workers' Party, for the Islamic independents, for the Greens and many definitely vote Aspire. Some Haredi and ultra Christian families may even vote Conservative in that manner too. As for why I mentioned it in relation to Sint Josse, it's because the state of mayor and his regime there reminds me of Tower Hamlets. It doesn't matter what form the fraud takes, or who is committing it, it's that it happens, that it corrodes European democracy that our ancestors bled and died for and it makes many people very cynical about the voting process. I don't like that, and I won't cease talking about it just because it may make you uncomfortable. |
|
|
|
Post by agedlikewine on Nov 22, 2024 6:18:22 GMT
I don't think Forfarshire Conservative does though. I would like to hear from him. Why did he single out Pakistani and Bangladeshi-origin voters and not Indian? Because he assumes they vote Labour, that would be my guess. He also managed to be completely wrong on the phenomenon at play in this case of vote rigging. Will he retract that statement too? I do actually, but it's less common. I mentioned Bangladeshi and Pakistani etc. because they're the groups where I have heard directly about issues, i.e. from people who grew up in those communities. It is, as rcronald says, also an issue in Haredi communities. It may also be an issue in some ultra-conservative Christian communities. However, I must thank you for making my point for me. I raise, in a rather bland manner, a concern about iffy voting practices and your immediate response is to act in the manner you have, with the underlying insinuations of partisanship or worse. This is why mot people don't talk about it. Secondly, for the record, it's not because they vote Labour. Perhaps you haven't noticed, but I am in Scotland and many don't vote Labour, they vote SNP too. In other parts of the country, they might vote for the Workers' Party, for the Islamic independents, for the Greens and many definitely vote Aspire. Some Haredi and ultra Christian families may even vote Conservative in that manner too. As for why I mentioned it in relation to Sint Josse, it's because the state of mayor and his regime there reminds me of Tower Hamlets. It doesn't matter what form the fraud takes, or who is committing it, it's that it happens, that it corrodes European democracy that our ancestors bled and died for and it makes many people very cynical about the voting process. I don't like that, and I won't cease talking about it just because it may make you uncomfortable. I agree withe every word you said. I also agreed with Badenoch when she said she found it offensive if a woman in a household answered the door to a policeman in the UK and asked them to wait for the man of the house to answer questions for them. The problem is do I trust the Tories to have a consistent line on this issue, even with communities that are more likely to vote Tory? Or will they single out Pakistani and Bangladashi-origin families? I fear the latter, which would be missing the point. |
|
|
|
Post by Devil Wincarnate on Nov 22, 2024 8:19:34 GMT
Sint Josse is a prime example of why the Brussels municipalities should be rationalised, by force if needs be.
|
|
The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,925
Member is Online
|
Post by The Bishop on Nov 22, 2024 11:59:20 GMT
How does the Hindu social conservative vote rcdonald? Can you tell us if women in their families are allowed a free vote? And if so which party do they support? It’s also a problem with socially conservative Hindu families and Ultra-Orthodox Jews. This is an instance of a problem widely associated with Muslims still not actually being exclusive to them. Honour killings and FGM are not dissimilar in that respect. |
|
|
|
Post by rcronald on Nov 22, 2024 17:11:21 GMT
It’s also a problem with socially conservative Hindu families and Ultra-Orthodox Jews. This is an instance of a problem widely associated with Muslims still not actually being exclusive to them. Honour killings and FGM are not dissimilar in that respect. Ultra Orthodox Jews don’t commit honor killings…. |
|
|
|
Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Nov 22, 2024 17:46:52 GMT
This is an instance of a problem widely associated with Muslims still not actually being exclusive to them. Honour killings and FGM are not dissimilar in that respect. Ultra Orthodox Jews don’t commit honor killings…. Killings, no. But you might want to comment on the output of The Nahamu Project about the abuse of religious power within some Jewish communities. |
|
|
|
Post by rcronald on Nov 22, 2024 18:08:51 GMT
Ultra Orthodox Jews don’t commit honor killings…. Killings, no. But you might want to comment on the output of The Nahamu Project about the abuse of religious power within some Jewish communities. I’m very aware of that, but it is nowhere near comparable to what’s going on within Islam. |
|
|
|
Post by aargauer on Nov 22, 2024 18:22:16 GMT
It’s also a problem with socially conservative Hindu families and Ultra-Orthodox Jews. This is an instance of a problem widely associated with Muslims still not actually being exclusive to them. Honour killings and FGM are not dissimilar in that respect. Genuine question: who else other than Muslims. |
|
|
|
Post by Delighted Of Tunbridge Wells on Nov 23, 2024 4:19:46 GMT
This is an instance of a problem widely associated with Muslims still not actually being exclusive to them. Honour killings and FGM are not dissimilar in that respect. Genuine question: who else other than Muslims. FGM is widely practised across East and Central Africa by practitioners of Christianity and local religions too. |
|
Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 12,012
|
Post by Khunanup on Nov 23, 2024 8:55:48 GMT
The most probable widespread abuse of postal voting is and has always been care homes. It is almost impossible to prove but baking in additional votes for whichever party the owner supports from the care homes (which has traditionally been the Tories, certainly Down South) is a matter of course.
|
|
The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,925
Member is Online
|
Post by The Bishop on Nov 23, 2024 10:54:17 GMT
Genuine question: who else other than Muslims. FGM is widely practised across East and Central Africa by practitioners of Christianity and local religions too. Yes honour killings are now *mostly* by Muslims, but there are other recent cases (eg by Hindus) They were not unknown in (Christian) Europe within living memory. In all these cases we are talking about traditional/tribal customs that originated independently of (and indeed before) Islam, even if they are now mostly linked with it. |
|
|
|
Post by Pete Whitehead on Nov 23, 2024 12:12:28 GMT
FGM is widely practised across East and Central Africa by practitioners of Christianity and local religions too. Yes honour killings are now *mostly* by Muslims, but there are other recent cases (eg by Hindus) They were not unknown in (Christian) Europe within living memory. In all these cases we are talking about traditional/tribal customs that originated independently of (and indeed before) Islam, even if they are now mostly linked with it. The mental gymnastics you perform when trying to assert that muslims are no more likely then any other group to engage in terrorism/grooming/FGM/vote-rigging/whatever is become my favourite spectator sport. Not only you of course - its standard fare for those of your ilk, but you have always been Mr Whataboutery in chief |
|
