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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Feb 18, 2024 14:07:41 GMT
Of course, the Greens might make the mistake of being over-confident and splitting their resources to target too many areas on the basis of recent good local election results, which will not go well for them. Their strategy is focusing specifically on four seats– Brighton Pavilion, Bristol Central, Waveney Valley, and North Herefordshire. I know some Greens in other areas aren't happy with that narrow targeting. I would quibble with some of the seat choices but the decision to narrowly target a few seats is absolutely the right one for the Green Party at the moment. |
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Chris from Brum
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Post by Chris from Brum on Feb 18, 2024 15:38:40 GMT
And of course you tried to dissuade him from this course of action ... of course you would have done as so many Liberals were at pains to do in Bermondsey in 1983 A reminder, since it's clearly necessary, that the out-and-out homophobic campaign in that election was that of the Real Bermondsey Labour candidate John O'Grady, backed by former Labour chief whip and MP for the seat Bob Mellish. |
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Post by batman on Feb 18, 2024 17:00:28 GMT
The out-and-out bit was that of O'Grady, especially towards the beginning of the campaign. But if you're really going to tell me that the Liberals did not engage in any kind of whispering campaign of their own on the doorstep about Tatchell, you will be disingenous at best. I worked, for my sins, for the Labour Party in that by-election and I very well remember the sequence of events, thank you.
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bsjmcr
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Post by bsjmcr on Feb 18, 2024 21:52:40 GMT
Of course, the Greens might make the mistake of being over-confident and splitting their resources to target too many areas on the basis of recent good local election results, which will not go well for them. Their strategy is focusing specifically on four seats– Brighton Pavilion, Bristol Central, Waveney Valley, and North Herefordshire. I know some Greens in other areas aren't happy with that narrow targeting. Where did North Herefordshire come from? Did they also do well there at the LEs? I only remember East Hertfordshire , but I guess that is split between Hertford & Stortford and NE Herts. |
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YL
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Post by YL on Feb 18, 2024 22:20:12 GMT
Their strategy is focusing specifically on four seats– Brighton Pavilion, Bristol Central, Waveney Valley, and North Herefordshire. I know some Greens in other areas aren't happy with that narrow targeting. Where did North Herefordshire come from? Did they also do well there at the LEs? I only remember East Hertfordshire , but I guess that is split between Hertford & Stortford and NE Herts. They won several seats in Leominster town and around Ledbury, but hardly did well enough across the constituency as a whole to make it look like a convincing target seat. I think the thing about it is that it is absolutely not a Labour target (its brief period of Labour representation after Peter Temple-Morris joined them notwithstanding) and probably not a Lib Dem one either, so they can try to position themselves as the main challenger to the Tories there, and they got a respectable vote share (though still fourth place) in 2019. |
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Post by andrewp on Feb 18, 2024 22:23:51 GMT
Their strategy is focusing specifically on four seats– Brighton Pavilion, Bristol Central, Waveney Valley, and North Herefordshire. I know some Greens in other areas aren't happy with that narrow targeting. Where did North Herefordshire come from? Did they also do well there at the LEs? I only remember East Hertfordshire , but I guess that is split between Hertford & Stortford and NE Herts. Councillors elected in the wards in the new seat, in 2023 were Conservative 14, Green 6, various Independents 5, LD 1. |
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Post by uthacalthing on Feb 18, 2024 22:31:50 GMT
Clearly, events where there is petulance and bad behavior are a particular interest of mine and the Bermondsey by-election is no exception.
To hear Lib Dems self righteously denying complicity in the homophobic campaign against Tatchell is comedic given that Hughes has long since apologised for it.
Of course, had Tatchell won and Hughes lost, both would long since be forgotten but the result led to both of them having fine careers, so happy endings all around.
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nyx
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Post by nyx on Feb 18, 2024 23:45:27 GMT
Their strategy is focusing specifically on four seats– Brighton Pavilion, Bristol Central, Waveney Valley, and North Herefordshire. I know some Greens in other areas aren't happy with that narrow targeting. Where did North Herefordshire come from? Did they also do well there at the LEs? I only remember East Hertfordshire , but I guess that is split between Hertford & Stortford and NE Herts. 2023 Herefordshire Council election in the North Herefordshire seat: Con 10,093 (41.4%); Green 5,926 (24.3%); Lib Dem 4,567 (18.7%); Independents 3,202 (13.1%); It's Our County 424 (1.7%); Labour 184 (0.8%). Total 24,396 Feels like a reasonable target seat for the Greens if they're aiming anywhere, considering the predicted Tory collapse. |
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graham
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Post by graham on Feb 19, 2024 0:08:58 GMT
Where did North Herefordshire come from? Did they also do well there at the LEs? I only remember East Hertfordshire , but I guess that is split between Hertford & Stortford and NE Herts. 2023 Herefordshire Council election in the North Herefordshire seat: Con 10,093 (41.4%); Green 5,926 (24.3%); Lib Dem 4,567 (18.7%); Independents 3,202 (13.1%); It's Our County 424 (1.7%); Labour 184 (0.8%). Total 24,396 Feels like a reasonable target seat for the Greens if they're aiming anywhere, considering the predicted Tory collapse. I rather doubt it. Much of the Tory collapse had occurred by May 2023. The Tories still had a clear lead and can probably count on the support of many who voted for assorted Independent candidates. The Non Voters would also be likely to disproportionately favour the Tories here. In addition , far more people are likely to contemplate voting Green at Local Elections than at a General Election. I would expect a very comfortable Tory hold. |
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nyx
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Post by nyx on Feb 19, 2024 3:35:18 GMT
2023 Herefordshire Council election in the North Herefordshire seat: Con 10,093 (41.4%); Green 5,926 (24.3%); Lib Dem 4,567 (18.7%); Independents 3,202 (13.1%); It's Our County 424 (1.7%); Labour 184 (0.8%). Total 24,396 Feels like a reasonable target seat for the Greens if they're aiming anywhere, considering the predicted Tory collapse. I rather doubt it. Much of the Tory collapse had occurred by May 2023. The Tories still had a clear lead and can probably count on the support of many who voted for assorted Independent candidates. The Non Voters would also be likely to disproportionately favour the Tories here. In addition , far more people are likely to contemplate voting Green at Local Elections than at a General Election. I would expect a very comfortable Tory hold. Agreed that a Tory hold is the most likely option, but it still feels like a decent target seat given the likely complete lack of Labour/LD campaigns. If the Greens were to manage a solid second place here (on 25-30% of the vote or so, with Lab/LD only on around 10% each), then it would be good grounds for squeezing the Lab/LD vote next election. |
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Feb 19, 2024 10:57:00 GMT
Don't start a sentence/paragraph with 'but' as it is a conjunction in the manner of an 'and' : Also, don't end one with 'what', but do use appropriate punctuation, or at least some punctuation. What is a prounoun? There are certain circumstances where you can use it as a relative pronoun, yes, although it's more commonly an interrogative word or an interjection. |
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john07
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Post by john07 on Feb 22, 2024 10:02:39 GMT
The out-and-out bit was that of O'Grady, especially towards the beginning of the campaign. But if you're really going to tell me that the Liberals did not engage in any kind of whispering campaign of their own on the doorstep about Tatchell, you will be disingenous at best. I worked, for my sins, for the Labour Party in that by-election and I very well remember the sequence of events, thank you. And that included Simon Hughes. |
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Post by batman on Feb 22, 2024 12:23:57 GMT
I wasn't saying that Hughes himself indulged in this - even though I freely admit that, in a very crowded field, he is in some respects one of my least favourite political figures. I haven't heard that he had done this, and there have been 41 years for me to have heard about it.
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Sibboleth
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Post by Sibboleth on Feb 22, 2024 12:34:49 GMT
The thing about the Bermondsey by-election is that no one involved above a certain level of importance emerges out of it looking particularly good, even if some emerge looking worse than others.
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Post by batman on Feb 22, 2024 12:53:12 GMT
I don't think that either the Labour or Conservative Parties did anything seriously wrong in that campaign.
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Sibboleth
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Post by Sibboleth on Feb 22, 2024 13:01:40 GMT
I don't think that either the Labour or Conservative Parties did anything seriously wrong in that campaign. Well for Labour I was thinking more of absolutely everything before that point, which put together reads today like a series of entirely avoidable train-wrecks. |
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Post by batman on Feb 22, 2024 13:53:08 GMT
if you mean being a useless opposition party yes, if you mean doing something morally repugnant which is what I thought you meant then no.
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Post by kevinf on Feb 22, 2024 17:47:38 GMT
if you mean being a useless opposition party yes, if you mean doing something morally repugnant which is what I thought you meant then no. We’ll the Labour Leader denouncing the candidate in the Commons was pretty morally repugnant I thought… |
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ColinJ
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Post by ColinJ on Feb 22, 2024 22:46:08 GMT
if you mean being a useless opposition party yes, if you mean doing something morally repugnant which is what I thought you meant then no. We’ll the Labour Leader denouncing the candidate in the Commons was pretty morally repugnant I thought… I did hear at the time that apparently Foot confused Tatchell with someone from a far left party.... |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Feb 22, 2024 23:07:46 GMT
We’ll the Labour Leader denouncing the candidate in the Commons was pretty morally repugnant I thought… I did hear at the time that apparently Foot confused Tatchell with someone from a far left party.... It was theorised that he might have confused him with Tariq Ali (who Jeremy Corbyn was trying to make a member of Hornsey CLP at the time), or possibly Peter Taaffe of Militant. But the 'Foot got confused' theory does not stand up. What is more plausible is that Robert Mellish, who knew Foot well from decades as fellow MPs and who had worked with him when they were Chief Whip and Leader of the House, had been considerably exaggerating Tatchell's political position. Also Stan Cohen (Leeds South East MP) had met Foot that morning to ask him for some show that would convince him not to defect to the SDP. |
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