Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2023 20:35:37 GMT
And, like clockwork, Tom Emmer has now withdrawn as he evidently can't make it. Bloody hell. Talk about the never-ending story... |
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Post by jamesdoyle on Oct 24, 2023 20:48:08 GMT
No Republican can, with the party as currently constituted, get the necessary votes.
I don't know where that takes us, or them.
They are slightly, but only slightly, ahead of the Conservatives on the road to dissolution.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2023 20:54:05 GMT
No Republican can, with the party as currently constituted, get the necessary votes. I don't know where that takes us, or them. They are slightly, but only slightly, ahead of the Conservatives on the road to dissolution. They are in total disarray. I think this will cost them both chambers in Virginia and contribute to their likely loss in Kentucky’s governor race, and the 2024 House elections. |
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Post by jamesdoyle on Oct 24, 2023 21:06:32 GMT
Next round of 'candidate' presentatiions at 11pm our time, apparently. I'm going to bed, and I'll see how many more have been ejected from the Big Brother house by the morning.
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CatholicLeft
Labour
2032 posts until I was "accidentally" deleted.
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Post by CatholicLeft on Oct 24, 2023 21:07:31 GMT
If I was a GOP Rep with any sense of a soul, I would meet with my few similar-minded colleagues and either support Hakim Jeffries, with deals in place, or put up a GOP candidate with Dem support and frame it as "for the sake of the nation".
In truth, a significant chunk of the GOP aren't going to get Trump's support, so put the country first.
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Post by jamesdoyle on Oct 24, 2023 21:09:34 GMT
If I was a GOP Rep with any sense of a soul, I would meet with my few similar-minded colleagues and either support Hakim Jeffries, with deals in place, or put up a GOP candidate with Dem support and frame it as "for the sake of the nation". In truth, a significant chunk of the GOP aren't going to get Trump's support, so put the country first. Like I said, the Republicans need a divorce. But neither side is big enough to force the other out, and they've indoctrinated themselves to see working with Dems as utterly impossible. The leopards are out, and they're eating faces. |
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Oct 24, 2023 21:22:25 GMT
If I was a GOP Rep with any sense of a soul, I would meet with my few similar-minded colleagues and either support Hakim Jeffries, with deals in place, or put up a GOP candidate with Dem support and frame it as "for the sake of the nation". In truth, a significant chunk of the GOP aren't going to get Trump's support, so put the country first. But equally, if I was a Dem Rep with any brain, then rather than continually backing Jeffries, I'd be looking for a GOP candidate that I could either vote for, or at least abstain. As I understand it, Emmer is one of only two serious candidates who endorsed the 2020 election result, and I'd be considering either abstaining or trying to cut a deal with Austin Scott. |
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Post by jamesdoyle on Oct 24, 2023 21:29:00 GMT
If I was a GOP Rep with any sense of a soul, I would meet with my few similar-minded colleagues and either support Hakim Jeffries, with deals in place, or put up a GOP candidate with Dem support and frame it as "for the sake of the nation". In truth, a significant chunk of the GOP aren't going to get Trump's support, so put the country first. But equally, if I was a Dem Rep with any brain, then rather than continually backing Jeffries, I'd be looking for a GOP candidate that I could either vote for, or at least abstain. As I understand it, Emmer is one of only two serious candidates who endorsed the 2020 election result, and I'd be considering either abstaining or trying to cut a deal with Austin Scott. All eight of the candidates either voted against certifying electoral college results in 2020 or signed the amicus brief to the Supreme Court asking for the 2020 result to be declared void - or both. None off them have clean hands. |
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Post by eastmidlandsright on Oct 24, 2023 21:38:16 GMT
If I was a GOP Rep with any sense of a soul, I would meet with my few similar-minded colleagues and either support Hakim Jeffries, with deals in place, or put up a GOP candidate with Dem support and frame it as "for the sake of the nation". In truth, a significant chunk of the GOP aren't going to get Trump's support, so put the country first. But equally, if I was a Dem Rep with any brain, then rather than continually backing Jeffries, I'd be looking for a GOP candidate that I could either vote for, or at least abstain. As I understand it, Emmer is one of only two serious candidates who endorsed the 2020 election result, and I'd be considering either abstaining or trying to cut a deal with Austin Scott. The House GOP are making complete and utter fools out of themselves in a manner that could seriously hurt their party for years to come. In the circumstances the Democrats are doing exactly the right thing; they are saying they are open to a bipartisan solution but they are quite prudently waiting for moderate republicans to make the first move. The last thing they want is to make a move that potentially annoys their base, makes them look complicit in the debacle and doesn't result in a solution. |
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Oct 24, 2023 21:39:50 GMT
But equally, if I was a Dem Rep with any brain, then rather than continually backing Jeffries, I'd be looking for a GOP candidate that I could either vote for, or at least abstain. As I understand it, Emmer is one of only two serious candidates who endorsed the 2020 election result, and I'd be considering either abstaining or trying to cut a deal with Austin Scott. All eight of the candidates either voted against certifying electoral college results in 2020 or signed the amicus brief to the Supreme Court asking for the 2020 result to be declared void - or both. None off them have clean hands. I'm aware of that and agree with your last sentence. Out of those eight, two were marginally preferable. It would be better to look for a candidate outside them, if one could be found with enough GOP votes to get in with Dem support. It might also be preferable to Jeffries, in demonstrating a willingness to go down the bipartisan route and pitch to non-aligned voters, who are surely going to be a key battleground in 2024. |
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stb12
Top Poster
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Post by stb12 on Oct 24, 2023 21:41:42 GMT
But equally, if I was a Dem Rep with any brain, then rather than continually backing Jeffries, I'd be looking for a GOP candidate that I could either vote for, or at least abstain. As I understand it, Emmer is one of only two serious candidates who endorsed the 2020 election result, and I'd be considering either abstaining or trying to cut a deal with Austin Scott. All eight of the candidates either voted against certifying electoral college results in 2020 or signed the amicus brief to the Supreme Court asking for the 2020 result to be declared void - or both. None of them have clean hands. There could be an element of not letting perfect be the enemy of good there (or the enemy of pragmatism maybe as a better word). McCarthy certainly didn’t have clean hands where Trump is concerned but in the end he did deals to keep the government open and avoid debt default rather than being someone who wants to let it all burn like some of the GOP conference clearly do It isn’t the Democrats’ job to help in the GOP’s civil war of course but the fact is there has to be a Speaker for anything to be done at all and the next elections are over a year away |
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stb12
Top Poster
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Post by stb12 on Oct 24, 2023 21:48:02 GMT
But equally, if I was a Dem Rep with any brain, then rather than continually backing Jeffries, I'd be looking for a GOP candidate that I could either vote for, or at least abstain. As I understand it, Emmer is one of only two serious candidates who endorsed the 2020 election result, and I'd be considering either abstaining or trying to cut a deal with Austin Scott. The House GOP are making complete and utter fools out of themselves in a manner that could seriously hurt their party for years to come. In the circumstances the Democrats are doing exactly the right thing; they are saying they are open to a bipartisan solution but they are quite prudently waiting for moderate republicans to make the first move. The last thing they want is to make a move that potentially annoys their base, makes them look complicit in the debacle and doesn't result in a solution. There did seem to be a willingness to strike some sort of deal to avoid this in the first place but McCarthy refused to talk at all so obviously they couldn’t save him without getting even the smallest of concessions in return. I’m still not sure if McCarthy wouldn’t consider talking to the Dems out of partisanship or if he’d just had enough and wanted in the end to be voted out |
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ricmk
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Post by ricmk on Oct 24, 2023 22:21:49 GMT
Honestly, I try to catch up on the day's events, only to find that it's so self-destructive, the new name who seems to be flavour of the day has given up even before I know he's been put forward. Will every representative be the Republican nominee for 15 minutes?
I wonder if Matt Gaetz has any idea what he's doing. He's unleashed chaos and there doesn't seem to be any way out. I actually think the Republicans should go back to McCarthy. He's the most credible candidate they have, they've tested everything else to destruction, and if it's only the 8 holdouts then a) it's a smaller deficit than anyone else has b) he should go back to repeated ballots like he did before, wear the opposition down, make them constantly justify their resistance. It worked before. No pressure on the holdouts with nominees stepping down before floor votes.
If there was this much deadlock and dysfunction in the UK, I'm sure we'd be an emergency general election by now. Once this is over, the US really needs to find some equivalent safety valve.
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Post by riccimarsh on Oct 24, 2023 22:36:20 GMT
Next batch of candidates:
Byron Donalds (FL)
Chuck Fleischmann (TN)
Mark Green (TN)
Kevin Hern (OK)
Mike Johnson (LA)
Roger Williams (TX)
Edit: Jake Sherman (who seems knowledgable on these things??) says Hern has dropped out and will support Johnson.
Next vote apparently at 8 pm DC time, 1 am UK time. No House floor vote tonight though.
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Post by riccimarsh on Oct 25, 2023 1:18:24 GMT
“First” ballot:
Johnson - 85
Donalds - 32
Other - 31
Green - 23
Williams - 21
Fleischmann - 10
Present - 2
31 Others doesn’t look promising…
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Post by riccimarsh on Oct 25, 2023 1:39:02 GMT
Second ballot:
Johnson - 97
Other - 34
Donalds - 31
Green - 21
Williams - 20
Green withdraws, Williams eliminated.
Others include 33 for McCarthy (!!), 1 for Jordan.
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Post by riccimarsh on Oct 25, 2023 2:00:10 GMT
Third ballot:
Johnson - 128
Other - 44 (McCarthy 43, Jordan 1)
Donalds - 29
Mike Johnson is the latest Republican nominee for Speaker.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2023 2:49:28 GMT
Third ballot: Johnson - 128 Other - 44 (McCarthy 43, Jordan 1) Donalds - 29 Mike Johnson is the latest Republican nominee for Speaker. How is that election denier getting from 128 to 217? Also, if there a serious possibility the next nominee for Speaker will be McCarthy? Donalds is interesting. If by some miracle, he won, he’d be the first Black Speaker of the House I believe. |
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Post by doktorb🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ on Oct 25, 2023 4:43:59 GMT
"How is that election denier getting from 128 to 217"
He won't.
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Post by pericles on Oct 25, 2023 5:24:29 GMT
Neither side has the chance to crush the other so they're going nowhere insisting on it. The moderates aren't willing to do a deal with the Democrats, which is a shame, but then they can't just insist on someone who is totally on their side because that can't unify the conference. The Freedom Caucus also had their shot at getting a Speaker who will give them everything they want, and that failed too. Their prospects are even dinner because the idea of them doing deals with Democrats to vote for literally anything is absurd, so they are a vastly outnumbered minority in the House. The only way the Republican conference can reach a consensus is through compromise (something the idiots hate lol).
If it's at all possible to satisfy both sides, Johnson does it surely. This is the most basic maturity test for Republicans, and the only one they can possibly pass.
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