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Post by rcronald on Nov 25, 2023 6:28:43 GMT
Left of Centre parties (PvdA/GL+D66+SP+Denk+PvdD+CU+Volt) results by province: Netherlands itself - 33.25%
Utrecht - 42.7%
North Holland - 40.5%
Groningen - 39.2%
South Holland - 34.4%
Gelderland - 32.1%
North Brabant - 29.6%
Flevoland - 28.4%
Friesland - 28.1%
Drenthe - 27.7%
Limburg - 26.2%
Overijssel - 25.9%
Zeeland - 24.5%
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right
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Post by right on Nov 25, 2023 8:15:15 GMT
That PVV score in Limburg. Blimey. Looking at that and North Brabant... Is there any correlation there between Catholicism and PVV voting? Wilders himself being a lapsed Catholic from Limburg... Those provinces used to stack up close to 90% votes for Catholic parties in the pillarisation period didn't they? |
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right
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Post by right on Nov 25, 2023 8:16:34 GMT
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Post by rcronald on Nov 25, 2023 8:53:32 GMT
Even if you ignore Wilders, the piece also seems to ignore Omtzigt’s reformist and populist instincts…. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Nov 25, 2023 8:58:22 GMT
The article was by the unbearably smug Simon Kuper, a man who is always right even when he is unbelievably wrong. |
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Post by rcronald on Nov 25, 2023 9:33:06 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2023 10:04:11 GMT
Left of Centre parties (PvdA/GL+D66+SP+Denk+PvdD+CU+Volt) results by province: Netherlands itself - 33.25% Utrecht - 42.7% North Holland - 40.5% Groningen - 39.2% South Holland - 34.4% Gelderland - 32.1% North Brabant - 29.6% Flevoland - 28.4% Friesland - 28.1% Drenthe - 27.7% Limburg - 26.2% Overijssel - 25.9% Zeeland - 24.5% What about the three actual left-wing parties? |
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Post by rcronald on Nov 25, 2023 10:39:33 GMT
Left of Centre parties (PvdA/GL+D66+SP+Denk+PvdD+CU+Volt) results by province: Netherlands itself - 33.25% Utrecht - 42.7% North Holland - 40.5% Groningen - 39.2% South Holland - 34.4% Gelderland - 32.1% North Brabant - 29.6% Flevoland - 28.4% Friesland - 28.1% Drenthe - 27.7% Limburg - 26.2% Overijssel - 25.9% Zeeland - 24.5% What about the three actual left-wing parties? PvdA/GL+SP+Denk? |
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jamie
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Post by jamie on Nov 25, 2023 11:30:00 GMT
What about the three actual left-wing parties? PvdA/GL+SP+Denk? I’d probably narrow it down to PvdA/GL, SP, PvdD and CU. D66 and Volt are progressive while Denk is ethnic (and in their home country, right wing). |
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right
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Post by right on Nov 25, 2023 12:26:42 GMT
Is there anywhere where the two together get 50%+ and are any of those places areas where one has more than 50% of the vote 9f the larger party? I don't know what a good measure of a two party system in this context would be, but that seems like a start. |
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Nov 25, 2023 12:36:35 GMT
Even if you ignore Wilders, the piece also seems to ignore Omtzigt’s reformist and populist instincts…. Yes, but its basically centrist rather than right wing populism? ("centrist populism" isn't actually an oxymoron, even if its been much less common than centrist technocracy in recent years) |
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Post by rcronald on Nov 25, 2023 12:44:56 GMT
Even if you ignore Wilders, the piece also seems to ignore Omtzigt’s reformist and populist instincts…. Yes, but its basically centrist rather than right wing populism? ("centrist populism" isn't actually an oxymoron, even if its been much less common than centrist technocracy in recent years) If you ignore the headline, the piece seems to be more about the Dutch being ‘mature’ , ‘Pragmatic’ , and ‘anti-populist’ rather than them rejecting right-wing populism specifically. |
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Post by rcronald on Nov 25, 2023 12:55:13 GMT
Is there anywhere where the two together get 50%+ and are any of those places areas where one has more than 50% of the vote 9f the larger party? I don't know what a good measure of a two party system in this context would be, but that seems like a start. I’ve done the maps and looked at the data manually, so I’m probably not going to do an actual map of PvdA+PVV, but I think that there are a couple of municipalities where PVV received close to 50% in Limburg and slightly to the north of Amsterdam in North Holland. |
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on Nov 25, 2023 13:12:01 GMT
Hasn't Limburg always been the most right-wing province of the Netherlands, alongside the south in general? The pathetic performances in the northern three provinces are probably far more of a concern. Though, to be y, everything about this election is a concern for the left Technically speaking, the province with the longest streak of not voting for a left of centre party (until 2023) was actually Utrecht…. (Can’t find the last time the province voted for a left leaning party, but it was before 1972) 1972 Utrecht "voted for a left leaning party", i.e. PvdA achieved a relative majority (as allWays, at least since 1946). |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Nov 25, 2023 13:26:56 GMT
I’d probably narrow it down to PvdA/GL, SP, PvdD and CU. D66 and Volt are progressive while Denk is ethnic (and in their home country, right wing). Volt and Denk are both nationalist parties. Just not Dutch nationalists! |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Nov 25, 2023 13:28:42 GMT
That PVV score in Limburg. Blimey. Looking at that and North Brabant... Is there any correlation there between Catholicism and PVV voting? Wilders himself being a lapsed Catholic from Limburg... Those provinces used to stack up close to 90% votes for Catholic parties in the pillarisation period didn't they? Not sure, but presumably. They're certainly the Catholic heartland. Limburg feels more like its Flemish (and therefore very Catholic) counterpart than say if you're up in Katwijk or Nijmegen. |
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on Nov 25, 2023 13:29:22 GMT
I don't understand how NL fails to have a single party that's right wing on economic matters when it has a good 15 parties in parliament. We have VVD which is a little right of centre, and then a huge mass of populist and left parties, with the odd christian democrat party. Wasn’t VVD even more right leaning on economics until a decade ago or so? What is VVD, when not clearly "right-wing [=liberal] on economic matters"? This survey (2010-2020) on inCome-disParity found only small changes:  |
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on Nov 25, 2023 13:30:29 GMT
1972 Utrecht "voted for a left leaning party", i.e. PvdA achieved a relative majority (as allWays, at least since 1946). PvdA won the City, not the province (at least that’s how it looks from looking at the 1972 election map). Not on my maps and i had a look at an archive of elec.res. |
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Post by rcronald on Nov 25, 2023 13:43:03 GMT
PvdA won the City, not the province (at least that’s how it looks from looking at the 1972 election map). Not on my maps and i had a look at an archive of elec.res. So, 1972 was the last time a left of centre party won a plurality in the province until 2023? |
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on Nov 25, 2023 15:09:30 GMT
Not on my maps and i had a look at an archive of elec.res. So, 1972 was the last time a left of centre party won a plurality in the province until 2023? Yes. 1946-1972 PvdA (1948&1963&1967 narrowly), 1977-1989 & 2002-2006 CDA (1977&1982 being close), 1994&1998 & 2010ff. VVD. |
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