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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Nov 23, 2023 15:04:38 GMT
Wilders will want to be in government but you could imagine a fudge whereby he sits outside as long as the government bring in certain policies he wants, probably eye-catching.
Basically stopping the issue of visas to Moroccans, from what the PVV have said in the past.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2023 15:07:01 GMT
Criminalise DENK? Or just deport its membership.....
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rcronald
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Post by rcronald on Nov 23, 2023 15:13:04 GMT
Criminalise DENK? Or just deport its membership..... Yeşilgöz would probably have some of the best days of her life deporting crazed Erdogan supporters and the scum who turned her into a refugee in the first place… |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Nov 23, 2023 15:14:29 GMT
Criminalise DENK? Or just deport its membership..... A cynic might argue that the continued existence of DENK is a boon to the PVV. |
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jamie
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Post by jamie on Nov 23, 2023 16:15:02 GMT
Criminalise DENK? Or just deport its membership..... A cynic might argue that the continued existence of DENK is a boon to the PVV. Well, it keeps said people out of other political parties so (in theory) frees them to chase PVV curious mainstream voters. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Nov 23, 2023 16:29:04 GMT
A cynic might argue that the continued existence of DENK is a boon to the PVV. Well, it keeps said people out of other political parties so (in theory) frees them to chase PVV curious mainstream voters. There's that angle. And then there's the overt alignment to certain heads of state. "The long arm of Ankara". Even on really petty points or cases where a Dutch citizen is involved. |
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right
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Post by right on Nov 23, 2023 19:48:44 GMT
Wilders will want to be in government but you could imagine a fudge whereby he sits outside as long as the government bring in certain policies he wants, probably eye-catching. Basically stopping the issue of visas to Moroccans, from what the PVV have said in the past. Perhaps showing willing to be in government but having other parties ostentatiously refusing to work with him may give him a decent pitch at the next election of break the logjam. |
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right
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Post by right on Nov 23, 2023 19:49:40 GMT
Well, it keeps said people out of other political parties so (in theory) frees them to chase PVV curious mainstream voters. There's that angle. And then there's the overt alignment to certain heads of state. "The long arm of Ankara". Even on really petty points or cases where a Dutch citizen is involved. A Wilders-DENK coalition as the banter option |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Nov 23, 2023 20:04:55 GMT
Wilders will want to be in government but you could imagine a fudge whereby he sits outside as long as the government bring in certain policies he wants, probably eye-catching. Basically stopping the issue of visas to Moroccans, from what the PVV have said in the past. Perhaps showing willing to be in government but having other parties ostentatiously refusing to work with him may give him a decent pitch at the next election of break the logjam. That is a good point. Cynical but good. Would another election help him? Some of the Wilders tribute acts might collapse fully. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Nov 23, 2023 20:07:44 GMT
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Post by greenhert on Nov 23, 2023 20:14:33 GMT
Other stories worth telling amidst all this include:
1. The demise of the CDA as a significant force in Dutch politics-even before this election they were already in long-term decline. The same goes for the SP whose total of 5 seats is their worst result in 25 years-like the CDA they have been in long-term decline.
2. The failure of the BBB to capitalise on discontent to the extent they expected-they only won 7 seats, but how their ability to help rally the rural vote indirectly contributed to PvdD losing half their seats.
3. How Geert Wilders' revival also struck a telling blow to PVV splinter groups FvD and the FvD's splinter group JA21, which only just managed to maintain representation.
4. How the drubbing dealt to D66 did not help Volt Netherlands even though their voter bases are very similar-Volt lost a seat at the same time D66 lost 15.
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Post by finsobruce on Nov 23, 2023 20:19:13 GMT
Perhaps showing willing to be in government but having other parties ostentatiously refusing to work with him may give him a decent pitch at the next election of break the logjam. That is a good point. Cynical but good. Would another election help him? Some of the Wilders tribute acts might collapse fully. I don't think it's cynical as such  . He has come first in the election and (pretty obviously) wants to govern. If no-one wants to govern with him, they either have to do a deal with each other or it's another election. It's possible that the electors will back him again in protest and also at being forced back to the polls, or equally that the anti Wilders voters will coalesce behind one of the other main parties. Or possibly both at the same time, and another stalemate.
That's coalition politics for you.
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Post by greenhert on Nov 23, 2023 20:21:35 GMT
Forming coalitions is going to be really awkward, to say the least. I believe it is likely that a snap election will be held next year as things stand-no one will form a coalition with PVV and nor will PvdA/GL partner with either VVD or NSC. The moderate conservative/liberal parties cannot form a viable coalition either.
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jamie
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Post by jamie on Nov 23, 2023 20:31:32 GMT
2. The failure of the BBB to capitalise on discontent to the extent they expected-they only won 7 seats, but how their ability to help rally the rural vote indirectly contributed to PvdD losing half their seats. The rise of BBB helped, not hurt, PvdD by raising the salience of their main policies. The PvdD’s problems are mainly that they had infighting during the election campaign, the strong pressure to tactically vote for the Labour/Green Left alliance, and the fact they’ve went ever further into hardcore environmentalism which alienated the generic protest vote (‘I love animals’). |
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jamie
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Post by jamie on Nov 23, 2023 20:32:48 GMT
A Wilders-DENK coalition as the banter option An alliance of racist reactionary conservatives? Surely not! |
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Post by manchesterman on Nov 23, 2023 21:03:52 GMT
Well, have you ever seen them in the same room together?  |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Nov 23, 2023 21:08:56 GMT
Well, have you ever seen them in the same room together? I always think of Wilders as looking like Tom Hulce in Amadeus. (But you can't beat Jörg Haider versus Falco) |
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Post by finsobruce on Nov 23, 2023 21:37:20 GMT
Well, have you ever seen them in the same room together? I always think of Wilders as looking like Tom Hulce in Amadeus. (But you can't beat Jörg Haider versus Falco) Clearly this election was not his Swansong |
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Chris from Brum
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Post by Chris from Brum on Nov 23, 2023 22:04:42 GMT
I always think of Wilders as looking like Tom Hulce in Amadeus. (But you can't beat Jörg Haider versus Falco) Clearly this election was not his Swansong I can't give a whole lotta love to this likeness. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2023 23:13:49 GMT
This is the second election in a row in which the combined score of the left parties was under a quarter of the vote (D66, Volt and Denk cannot be realistically counted as parties of the left, unless the term is redefined far away from its usual meaning in European countries). As noted above, there was also no obvious sign of a serious recovery in those places where the collapse over the past decade has been particularly severe. This should prompt serious reflection at the very least, but I suspect that it won't. In fact in all three northern provinces, the increase in the combined GL/PvdA vote was less than combined drop in the SP and PvdD vote, meaning the left lost vote share. There were even some municipalities where the joint list vote fell compared to last time |
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. He has come first in the election and (pretty obviously) wants to govern. If no-one wants to govern with him, they either have to do a deal with each other or it's another election. It's possible that the electors will back him again in protest and also at being forced back to the polls, or equally that the anti Wilders voters will coalesce behind one of the other main parties. Or possibly both at the same time, and another stalemate. 
