ricmk
Lib Dem
Posts: 2,573
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Post by ricmk on Sept 20, 2023 16:51:36 GMT
NEW CANDIDATE ALERT!
(Well, anything except droning on about voting systems here)
Enter the Loonies - Ann Kelly will stand for them. 2 questions - who will she take votes from? And are you allowed to stand for the MRLP with a naming sounding so normal?
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Post by timrollpickering on Sept 20, 2023 16:54:13 GMT
Supporting FPP and whinging about parties saying its a two horse race between x party and y party is hypocritical. You can use a bar chart for any electoral system to show it's close so that doesn't wash. Lib Dem bar charts are notorious for cherrypicking and distortion and thus worthy of specific criticism.
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 11,912
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Post by Khunanup on Sept 20, 2023 16:56:19 GMT
I've noticed in Labour by-election literature that they appear to take any challenge from any other party other than the Conservatives extremely personally with their graphic choices and their language (not just in the leaflets shared here but also from personal experience in previous by-elections where I've been and seen the literature). I do think it's counterproductive and always comes across as a bit desperate.
Time will tell of course, but it's not an approach that screams confidence.
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Post by timrollpickering on Sept 20, 2023 16:56:29 GMT
There is no "Electoral Administration (Truthful Use of Statistics) (Leaflets etc) Regulations". Time to set one up, to be administered by Offchart?
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 11,912
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Post by Khunanup on Sept 20, 2023 16:58:54 GMT
Supporting FPP and whinging about parties saying its a two horse race between x party and y party is hypocritical. You can use a bar chart for any electotal system to show it's close so that doesn't wash. Lib Dem bar charts are notorious for cherrypicking and distortion and thus worthy of specific criticism. Everyone who uses bar charts cherrypicks, everyone. Indeed you have to cherrypick to create a bar chart because there's so many options for the information that you want to put across.
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Post by matureleft on Sept 20, 2023 17:18:22 GMT
I've noticed in Labour by-election literature that they appear to take any challenge from any other party other than the Conservatives extremely personally with their graphic choices and their language (not just in the leaflets shared here but also from personal experience in previous by-elections where I've been and seen the literature). I do think it's counterproductive and always comes across as a bit desperate. Time will tell of course, but it's not an approach that screams confidence. Well there’s a different edge. Labour and the Lib Dems are often fishing in the same pool and FPTP means that it’s going to be a bit rough sometimes. I’m afraid that you’ve led a sainted and perhaps blind existence if you’ve missed Lib Dem literature attacking Labour in pretty strident terms. The leaflet just a little up this thread isn’t a gentle and positive exposition of policy is it?
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jamie
Top Poster
Posts: 7,029
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Post by jamie on Sept 20, 2023 17:42:23 GMT
But any party which argues that it is in first or second place when it knows full well that the assertion is not true is deliberately seeking to mislead voters - ie it is lying! I have long been a supporter of the AV system as used in Australia but I am not persuaded that it would eliminate the false claims made by party campaigners. Whilst it would facilitate the transfer of votes until one candidate has gained 50% of votes cast, there would be much the same focus to avoid being perceived as being in 3rd or 4th place that we now see under FPTP.
The Lib Dems have pulled these kind of arguments in D'Hondt elections to the European Parliament as well. The Greens also famously played the 'only we can stop the BNP winning a seat in the NW' card.. In Tasmania last year the Jacqui Lambie Network got a lot of tactical votes by arguing they were the only party who could beat the (hated by lefties) 3rd Liberal candidate on the Senate list.
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Post by finsobruce on Sept 20, 2023 17:49:22 GMT
NEW CANDIDATE ALERT! (Well, anything except droning on about voting systems here) Enter the Loonies - Ann Kelly will stand for them. 2 questions - who will she take votes from? And are you allowed to stand for the MRLP with a naming sounding so normal?
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Tony Otim
Green
Suffering from Brexistential Despair
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Post by Tony Otim on Sept 20, 2023 21:39:50 GMT
You can use a bar chart for any electotal system to show it's close so that doesn't wash. Lib Dem bar charts are notorious for cherrypicking and distortion and thus worthy of specific criticism. Everyone who uses bar charts cherrypicks, everyone. Indeed you have to cherrypick to create a bar chart because there's so many options for the information that you want to put across. Indeed, the two most egregious examples I can remember getting through my own door were: - from the Conservatives in last years local elections (under STV of course) - bar chart based on average vote share in the last few by-elections across Scotland, which had mainly been in rural areas where the Conservatives were competitive against SNP and/or indies, which of course gave a vastly inflated picture of Tory strength, largely at the expense of Labour and had bigger all relevance to the situation in Edinburgh. - from Labour in the 2010 general election - bar chart based on change in councillor numbers in Edinburgh South between the 2003 and 2007 locals, but somehow omitting to mention that those elections took place under completely different voting systems, which accounted for the change. We're all living in glass houses on this one...
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carlton43
Reform Party
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Post by carlton43 on Sept 20, 2023 22:11:42 GMT
Everyone who uses bar charts cherrypicks, everyone. Indeed you have to cherrypick to create a bar chart because there's so many options for the information that you want to put across. Indeed, the two most egregious examples I can remember getting through my own door were: - from the Conservatives in last years local elections (under STV of course) - bar chart based on average vote share in the last few by-elections across Scotland, which had mainly been in rural areas where the Conservatives were competitive against SNP and/or indies, which of course gave a vastly inflated picture of Tory strength, largely at the expense of Labour and had bigger all relevance to the situation in Edinburgh. - from Labour in the 2010 general election - bar chart based on change in councillor numbers in Edinburgh South between the 2003 and 2007 locals, but somehow omitting to mention that those elections took place under completely different voting systems, which accounted for the change. We're all living in glass houses on this one... That is quite correct : The Conservatives under a cloche Labour in a small shed with 3-windows And the LDs in Crystal Palace
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 11,912
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Post by Khunanup on Sept 20, 2023 22:21:04 GMT
I've noticed in Labour by-election literature that they appear to take any challenge from any other party other than the Conservatives extremely personally with their graphic choices and their language (not just in the leaflets shared here but also from personal experience in previous by-elections where I've been and seen the literature). I do think it's counterproductive and always comes across as a bit desperate. Time will tell of course, but it's not an approach that screams confidence. Well there’s a different edge. Labour and the Lib Dems are often fishing in the same pool and FPTP means that it’s going to be a bit rough sometimes. I’m afraid that you’ve led a sainted and perhaps blind existence if you’ve missed Lib Dem literature attacking Labour in pretty strident terms. The leaflet just a little up this thread isn’t a gentle and positive exposition of policy is it? Libby spiralling (and indeed the bird dead which has been seen before) is just childish, which is what I mean by graphic choices. It's just a bit more Thick of It and high level messaging rather than something that's going to be by-election persuasive.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2023 5:41:36 GMT
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Sept 22, 2023 8:15:21 GMT
Nominations close 4pm today.
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ricmk
Lib Dem
Posts: 2,573
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Post by ricmk on Sept 22, 2023 8:52:59 GMT
Would be good if the poll could be more than just 'who wins' maybe the 6 options of the top three (or more if you think the Indy will feature, but that seems less likely now.)
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Post by timrollpickering on Sept 22, 2023 8:59:15 GMT
Nominations close 4pm today. Can we have an interim poll as to when the SOPN will appear on the website?
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ricmk
Lib Dem
Posts: 2,573
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Post by ricmk on Sept 22, 2023 9:06:47 GMT
NEW CANDIDATE ALERT!
Alberto Thomas - Heritage Party.
Stood for Mayor of Bedford in May.
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YL
Non-Aligned
Either Labour leaning or Lib Dem leaning but not sure which
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Post by YL on Sept 22, 2023 15:11:05 GMT
Nominations close 4pm today. Can we have an interim poll as to when the SOPN will appear on the website? Would you have guessed that it would be up by 16:09? Link13 candidates Festus Akinbusoye (Con) Sid Cordle (CPA) Prince Ankit Love Emperor of India (no description) Dave Holland (Reform UK) Emma Louise Holland-Lindsay (Lib Dem) Ann Kelly (OMRLP) Gareth Mackey (Independent) Chris Rooney (Mainstream) Cade Sibley (Green) Alistair Luke Strathern (Lab) Alberto George Thomas (Heritage) Alan Victor (True and Fair) Antonio Daniel Vitiello (Eng Dem)
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Sept 22, 2023 15:14:59 GMT
13 candidates.
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Tony Otim
Green
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Post by Tony Otim on Sept 22, 2023 15:18:00 GMT
Mainstream?
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YL
Non-Aligned
Either Labour leaning or Lib Dem leaning but not sure which
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Post by YL on Sept 22, 2023 15:25:15 GMT
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