neilm
Non-Aligned
Posts: 25,023
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Post by neilm on Aug 31, 2023 12:56:07 GMT
Sinn Féin did everything right, they say from the start that they're not going to take the Oath, so they can't/won't go through the out of date rigmarole of taking a fictitious job to just resign. The issue is Parliament refusing to modernise. This whole episode is a failure of the system to get with the times. So how do the contracts work?
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Post by eastmidlandsright on Aug 31, 2023 13:44:48 GMT
For all the shrieking and shouting that it's "absurd" or "nonsense", no-one's really managed to point to any practical problem with the current scheme. If there was one, it was self-generated by the Sinn Féiner distaste for taking even a legal fiction appointment from the British crown, but they seem to have got over that now. Many people like the quaint reminder of the history involved. So why change? What would it achieve? It would allow a very small and very silly group of people to feel that they have achieved something, that they have got one over on the establishment. The people who get worked up about things like this simply aren't serious about politics or the governance of the country.
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Post by John Chanin on Aug 31, 2023 14:06:30 GMT
I have always advocated for a great big reset switch to be hit so this country could eventually enter modern times like the rest of civilization. The fact that MPs can't resign, they don't even have employment contracts, is just symbolic of the Gentlemen's Club way of running the country, an attitude which still anchors us to the days of workhouses and the Empire. Stella Creasey was on a podcast I listen to pointing out that she was told that being given maternity leave would 'cause a constitutional headache', to which she responded, 'first off, I'd like to see the constitution you think would be effected." In response to Dorries, I'd make two immediate changes; add non-attendance having taken the Oath subject to Recall, and allow MPs to just resign without going through the Gormanghast bullshit. I don't trust that our right-wing chums club political establishment would ever allow such radical suggestions. I don't know what technology you are using, but you need to stop using hard returns which make a mess of your posts for anyone viewing on a different platform.
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Aug 31, 2023 14:09:24 GMT
I have always advocated for a great big reset switch to be hit so this country could eventually enter modern times like the rest of civilization. The fact that MPs can't resign, they don't even have employment contracts, is just symbolic of the Gentlemen's Club way of running the country, an attitude which still anchors us to the days of workhouses and the Empire. Stella Creasey was on a podcast I listen to pointing out that she was told that being given maternity leave would 'cause a constitutional headache', to which she responded, 'first off, I'd like to see the constitution you think would be effected." In response to Dorries, I'd make two immediate changes; add non-attendance having taken the Oath subject to Recall, and allow MPs to just resign without going through the Gormanghast bullshit. I don't trust that our right-wing chums club political establishment would ever allow such radical suggestions. I don't know what technology you are using, but you need to stop using hard returns which make a mess of your posts for anyone viewing on a different platform. To be fair his posts are a fucking mess whatever format they're in. He could post using the Wingdings font and they'd be more coherent..
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Post by John Chanin on Aug 31, 2023 14:15:53 GMT
I don't know what technology you are using, but you need to stop using hard returns which make a mess of your posts for anyone viewing on a different platform. To be fair his posts are a fucking mess whatever format they're in. He could post using the Wingdings font and they'd be more coherent.. Now now, remember the virtues of tolerance......
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Post by LDCaerdydd on Aug 31, 2023 21:24:34 GMT
Turns out this is what she’s been doing: Hilarious update:
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2023 1:08:41 GMT
Turns out this is what she’s been doing: Hilarious update: The same ‘delay’ which deprived her of her seat for life in the House of Lords? Nadine really is an airhead, isn’t she?
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Post by Wisconsin on Sept 1, 2023 6:56:23 GMT
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,484
Member is Online
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Post by The Bishop on Sept 1, 2023 9:25:58 GMT
Actually published on Tuesday, so yes it did go unnoticed at the time.
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Sept 1, 2023 9:31:02 GMT
Actually published on Tuesday, so yes it did go unnoticed at the time. It is dated Tuesday but only appeared at 4pm yesterday.
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Sept 1, 2023 10:24:19 GMT
The procedure is definitely absurd and anachronistic, but that doesn't mean it doesn't work perfectly well. To deal with the two substantive objections raised:
1. SF clearly don't care or feel inconvenienced by the process. Even if you did feel that the British government should be trying to spare their blushes, it's not a priority for them; 2. Delaying the writ until parliament is sitting again means that by-elections are less likely to happen in the middle of summer when more voters are on holiday. This will tend to promote higher turnout, which is a good thing.
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Post by johnloony on Sept 1, 2023 10:29:59 GMT
Mike Smithson on Twitter says that the betting this morning was
Con 3.7 Lab 2.56 LD 2.06
which otherwisely means
Con 27% Lab 38% LD 48%
which otherwisely means (approximately)
Con 27/10 Lab 14/9 Con 17/16
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Post by Wisconsin on Sept 1, 2023 13:36:26 GMT
Another example of an absurd and anachronistic system - traditional betting odds.
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Crimson King
Lib Dem
Be nice to each other and sing in tune
Posts: 9,770
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Post by Crimson King on Sept 1, 2023 18:14:27 GMT
Another example of an absurd and anachronistic system - traditional betting odds. Ten to one you don’t really mean that
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Post by johnloony on Sept 1, 2023 19:08:26 GMT
I want the Conservative Party to win the by-election (obviously), but if it doesn’t, I want it to be a close 3-way marginal with Conservative in 3rd place behind Labour and the Lib Dems. Just because it would be psephologically and historically interesting, like the various similar by-election results in the 1990s. I don’t want it to be just a Conservative defeat with Conservative in 2nd place, because that would be boring as well as disappointing.
On balance, if it is a 3-way marginal result (with Conservative third), I would prefer Labour to win rather than the Liberal Democrats - merely because it would be more fun to annoy the Lib Dems and throw their smugness back in their face at a time when they are probably expecting to win.
P.S. To make it even more interesting, large vote shares for the Independent and Green candidates would be useful in reducing the percentage share of the vote for the winner.
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nodealbrexiteer
Forum Regular
non aligned favour no deal brexit!
Posts: 4,379
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Post by nodealbrexiteer on Sept 1, 2023 19:10:06 GMT
I want the Conservative Party to win the by-election (obviously), but if it doesn’t, I want it to be a close 3-way marginal with Conservative in 3rd place behind Labour and the Lib Dems. Just because it would be psephologically and historically interesting, like the various similar by-election results in the 1990s. I don’t want it to be just a Conservative defeat with Conservative in 2nd place, because that would be boring as well as disappointing. On balance, if it is a 3-way marginal result (with Conservative third), I would prefer Labour to win rather than the Liberal Democrats - merely because it would be more fun to annoy the Lib Dems and throw their smugness back in their face at a time when they are probably expecting to win. Well apart from 1st line i can agree with much of that
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Post by bigfatron on Sept 1, 2023 19:52:15 GMT
I want the Conservative Party to win the by-election (obviously), but if it doesn’t, I want it to be a close 3-way marginal with Conservative in 3rd place behind Labour and the Lib Dems. Just because it would be psephologically and historically interesting, like the various similar by-election results in the 1990s. I don’t want it to be just a Conservative defeat with Conservative in 2nd place, because that would be boring as well as disappointing. On balance, if it is a 3-way marginal result (with Conservative third), I would prefer Labour to win rather than the Liberal Democrats - merely because it would be more fun to annoy the Lib Dems and throw their smugness back in their face at a time when they are probably expecting to win. P.S. To make it even more interesting, large vote shares for the Independent and Green candidates would be useful in reducing the percentage share of the vote for the winner. We really don’t expect to win this one…
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nodealbrexiteer
Forum Regular
non aligned favour no deal brexit!
Posts: 4,379
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Post by nodealbrexiteer on Sept 1, 2023 19:53:24 GMT
I want the Conservative Party to win the by-election (obviously), but if it doesn’t, I want it to be a close 3-way marginal with Conservative in 3rd place behind Labour and the Lib Dems. Just because it would be psephologically and historically interesting, like the various similar by-election results in the 1990s. I don’t want it to be just a Conservative defeat with Conservative in 2nd place, because that would be boring as well as disappointing. On balance, if it is a 3-way marginal result (with Conservative third), I would prefer Labour to win rather than the Liberal Democrats - merely because it would be more fun to annoy the Lib Dems and throw their smugness back in their face at a time when they are probably expecting to win. P.S. To make it even more interesting, large vote shares for the Independent and Green candidates would be useful in reducing the percentage share of the vote for the winner. We really don’t expect to win this one… lowballing?
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Post by manchesterman on Sept 1, 2023 20:16:02 GMT
I want the Conservative Party to win the by-election (obviously), but if it doesn’t, I want it to be a close 3-way marginal with Conservative in 3rd place behind Labour and the Lib Dems. Just because it would be psephologically and historically interesting, like the various similar by-election results in the 1990s. I don’t want it to be just a Conservative defeat with Conservative in 2nd place, because that would be boring as well as disappointing. On balance, if it is a 3-way marginal result (with Conservative third), I would prefer Labour to win rather than the Liberal Democrats - merely because it would be more fun to annoy the Lib Dems and throw their smugness back in their face at a time when they are probably expecting to win. P.S. To make it even more interesting, large vote shares for the Independent and Green candidates would be useful in reducing the percentage share of the vote for the winner. Question for the panel.. when was the last by-election which ended up a tight 3-way battle (as could happen here)? To give some parameters, I'm thinking of no more than 5% between the 1st place and 3rd place candidates.
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Post by andrewp on Sept 1, 2023 20:20:40 GMT
I want the Conservative Party to win the by-election (obviously), but if it doesn’t, I want it to be a close 3-way marginal with Conservative in 3rd place behind Labour and the Lib Dems. Just because it would be psephologically and historically interesting, like the various similar by-election results in the 1990s. I don’t want it to be just a Conservative defeat with Conservative in 2nd place, because that would be boring as well as disappointing. On balance, if it is a 3-way marginal result (with Conservative third), I would prefer Labour to win rather than the Liberal Democrats - merely because it would be more fun to annoy the Lib Dems and throw their smugness back in their face at a time when they are probably expecting to win. P.S. To make it even more interesting, large vote shares for the Independent and Green candidates would be useful in reducing the percentage share of the vote for the winner. Question for the panel.. when was the last by-election which ended up a tight 3-way battle (as could happen here)? To give some parameters, I'm thinking of no more than 5% between the 1st place and 3rd place candidates. Not quite in your parameters but I would say Eastleigh 2013 was the last tight 3 way battle- LD 32.1%, UKIP 27.8%, Con 25.4%. Peterborough 2019 was also pretty close to it.
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