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Post by finsobruce on Aug 21, 2023 13:21:50 GMT
Heard a phone-in about Mad Nads last night. The topic expanded to the fact that she spends 0% of her work time doing her MP work and 100% of her work time engaged in her 'secondary jobs' (TV, Op Ed columns etc) and one of the suggestions for dealing with the wider question of MPs having 2nd jobs was brilliant IMO. The caller suggested that - to save the public purse some dosh - MPs should be treated in a similar way to those less privileged who have to claim in-work benefits (UC, I guess). The proposal would be that an MP would be entitled to their annual salary (is it £86k now?) but if they undertake external work which takes them away from their primary duties as an MP, then their taxpayer-funded pay should be reduced accordingly. For example, someone earning £50k as a non-exec Dir should have their MP pay reduced to £36k. Someone earning £200k pa for not doing their primary MP role, would be paid £0. I thought the 2nd scenario was a little too severe, so it could be finessed a little so that their MP pay was reduced proportionately. So for the non-exec Dir doing 1 day a week should lose 20% of their MP salary, similarly for media work, reduce it proportionately. SO Nads for example I believe has a once-a-week show on GBeebies and probably writes 1 column a week for a rag (Mail? Express?), so she would lose two-fifths of her MP salary. This would mean that MPs who focus solely on representing their constituents who be paid 100% of their salary for 100% of their time/efforts and those who choose to do other jobs are paid proportionately. Probably a few teething issues to be ironed out, but as an overall principle and framework, I think it has legs! What about those people who manage to do their MP work and have outside work?
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Post by manchesterman on Aug 21, 2023 13:40:06 GMT
By definition and anecdote, an MPs work is never "done". I'm sure they have casework by the barrowload to attend to, so if they wanted to work more they could start on their backlog rather than working elsewhere. if they have - exceptionally - dealt with ALL their constituencies queries, then they could hold more surgeries, attend more local events etc etc. I'm sure there are a million other ways an MP could be a true representative of their constituency if they were 100% committed to it and their role. Of course, they could still choose to work elsewhere, this helps resolve the thorny debate of whether MPs should have 2nd jobs at all - but there's the rub.
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Post by mattbewilson on Aug 21, 2023 13:42:22 GMT
I visited a friend who now lives here. They had some mates over who've just moved up too. Alongside two other friends who've moved to North Herts, this part of the world appears to be becoming the alternative for many young people. Not necessarily favourable for labour tho. None of these friends are labour supporters.
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Post by carlton43 on Aug 21, 2023 14:00:28 GMT
By definition and anecdote, an MPs work is never "done". I'm sure they have casework by the barrowload to attend to, so if they wanted to work more they could start on their backlog rather than working elsewhere. if they have - exceptionally - dealt with ALL their constituencies queries, then they could hold more surgeries, attend more local events etc etc. I'm sure there are a million other ways an MP could be a true representative of their constituency if they were 100% committed to it and their role. Of course, they could still choose to work elsewhere, this helps resolve the thorny debate of whether MPs should have 2nd jobs at all - but there's the rub. I contend that all MP should have at least one other job to keep their hand in and generate connection with the non-political world, and to make some sensible money to help with the costs of maintaining two or more households and the gross disruption to domestic life. I would not be prepared to do it on less than £200K gross. And the surgery and casework element should be nearly entirely shelved to office staff and generally dicouraged as being no part of a proper MP's role.
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Post by batman on Aug 21, 2023 14:03:13 GMT
That made me smile because it is so diametrically opposed to what I think.
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Post by doktorb🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ on Aug 21, 2023 14:41:10 GMT
If an MP needs a second job, they're likely a rubbish MP.
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Post by johnloony on Aug 21, 2023 14:42:42 GMT
Heard a phone-in about Mad Nads last night. The topic expanded to the fact that she spends 0% of her work time doing her MP work and 100% of her work time engaged in her 'secondary jobs' (TV, Op Ed columns etc) and one of the suggestions for dealing with the wider question of MPs having 2nd jobs was brilliant IMO. The caller suggested that - to save the public purse some dosh - MPs should be treated in a similar way to those less privileged who have to claim in-work benefits (UC, I guess). The proposal would be that an MP would be entitled to their annual salary (is it £86k now?) but if they undertake external work which takes them away from their primary duties as an MP, then their taxpayer-funded pay should be reduced accordingly. For example, someone earning £50k as a non-exec Dir should have their MP pay reduced to £36k. Someone earning £200k pa for not doing their primary MP role, would be paid £0. I thought the 2nd scenario was a little too severe, so it could be finessed a little so that their MP pay was reduced proportionately. So for the non-exec Dir doing 1 day a week should lose 20% of their MP salary, similarly for media work, reduce it proportionately. SO Nads for example I believe has a once-a-week show on GBeebies and probably writes 1 column a week for a rag (Mail? Express?), so she would lose two-fifths of her MP salary. This would mean that MPs who focus solely on representing their constituents who be paid 100% of their salary for 100% of their time/efforts and those who choose to do other jobs are paid proportionately. Probably a few teething issues to be ironed out, but as an overall principle and framework, I think it has legs! I don’t agree with that, because it would be far too difficult to define exactly what the MP is doing, and how long he/she is taking to do it, in their work as an MP. Also, just as in any other normal job, it is reasonable for an MP to have time off (during recess) to (frig zample) go on holiday with their family. Suppose an MP goes on a two-week holiday in August to somewhere like Italy. But suppose a different MP just doesn’t like going on holiday, and prefers to stat at home. What should they do, or be allowed to do, with their spare two weeks? They might want to (frig zample) get a temporary job on the till at the local supermarket, or volunteering as a porter in a hospital, or working with a local charity or whatever. They might want to do a job which helps them to learn about the people in their constituency, and understand better what their circumstances are. Or a different MP might want to use the same two weeks working as a barrister, or a company director. According to their skill set, they might get paid a lot of money compared with their MP salary. If those various different MPs are doing their job adequately as an MP for most of the year, they should not be penalises or have their pay deducted just because they choose to do something wildly different in their spare time.
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Post by carlton43 on Aug 21, 2023 15:04:40 GMT
If an MP needs a second job, they're likely a rubbish MP. I very much regret to report that every scrap of historical evidence would suggest the contrary. An MP with highly paid outside interests is actually worth something whereas many full time MPs would find it very hard indeed to drive an income of even £50K outside the comfort zone of the HOC. Being an MP is not and must never be 'a job'. It is a duty to be performed by those properly qualified and who bring useful talents to the role. It is not about being a party placeman, being lobby fodder, attending lots of debates and asking damn fool questions. It is about bringing in experience gained at the profession or other work, deploying erudition and intellect to abstruse problems. It should not be in any way related to the electors or their pettifogging lives. The MP is NOT a wet nurse, a case worker, an advocate for problems, a helper, a carer or facilitator. He is elected to serve as a legislator and scrutineer and a check on the conduct of government, in place of personal involvement by those electors. He owes them nothing other than diligence on that confined role of legislator.
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Post by doktorb🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ on Aug 21, 2023 15:26:09 GMT
This is where we get into trying to legislate for what is an acceptable or unacceptable second job.
GP, teacher, lecturer, middle manager, territorial army, TV presenter, Telegraph columnist: what do we permit?
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Post by carlton43 on Aug 21, 2023 15:38:33 GMT
This is where we get into trying to legislate for what is an acceptable or unacceptable second job. GP, teacher, lecturer, middle manager, territorial army, TV presenter, Telegraph columnist: what do we permit? You DON'T get to permit. An MP is accountable to no one and no body until the next election. He may do as he likes within the law.
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Post by bigfatron on Aug 21, 2023 15:50:53 GMT
This is where we get into trying to legislate for what is an acceptable or unacceptable second job. GP, teacher, lecturer, middle manager, territorial army, TV presenter, Telegraph columnist: what do we permit? You DON'T get to permit. An MP is accountable to no one and no body until the next election. He may do as he likes within the law. Including depriving their electorate of effective representation like Dorries. Rare though it is, on this I agree with Carlton43 that the electorate and only the electorate should decide - I support the ability to recall in certain circumstances, but I am not convinced non-attendance is one such. On second jobs, I see no meaningful evidence that MPs with second jobs are any better or worse MPs than those without - they are, perhaps, more susceptible to conflicts of interest though...
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Post by doktorb🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ on Aug 21, 2023 16:12:11 GMT
But we know that certain seats are so rock solid red or blue that even absent MPs can be assured of almost guaranteed re-election. This is why Recall is such a powerful tool. If you're an MP just for the money and f--- the voters must have a tool to fight against MPs who don't pull their weight.
We don't live in the era of Baronets having liquid lunches all day and never visiting constituency offices.
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Post by stb12 on Aug 21, 2023 16:34:48 GMT
Was there not an Irish Republican MP in the 70s who wasn’t abstentionist and took the oath but very rarely ever turned up at Parliament over a few years?
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Post by stb12 on Aug 21, 2023 16:35:11 GMT
But we know that certain seats are so rock solid red or blue that even absent MPs can be assured of almost guaranteed re-election. This is why Recall is such a powerful tool. If you're an MP just for the money and f--- the voters must have a tool to fight against MPs who don't pull their weight. We don't live in the era of Baronets having liquid lunches all day and never visiting constituency offices. However safe a seat is nobody forces the electorate to vote how they do though, and a recall doesn’t stop the incumbent from standing again under party colours if they’re allowed to Dorries isn’t standing again anyway but if she did try to and was remaining totally absent then I imagine she’d face a few problems winning even as the Conservative candidate
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Post by bigfatron on Aug 21, 2023 16:42:59 GMT
But we know that certain seats are so rock solid red or blue that even absent MPs can be assured of almost guaranteed re-election. This is why Recall is such a powerful tool. If you're an MP just for the money and f--- the voters must have a tool to fight against MPs who don't pull their weight. We don't live in the era of Baronets having liquid lunches all day and never visiting constituency offices. However safe a seat is nobody forces the electorate to vote how they do though, and a recall doesn’t stop the incumbent from standing again under party colours if they’re allowed to Dorries isn’t standing again anyway but if she did try to and was remaining totally absent then I imagine she’d face a few problems winning even as the Conservative candidate I'm hopeful that the Tory candidate will have a few problems winning here, regardless of who they are...
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Post by stb12 on Aug 21, 2023 16:46:20 GMT
However safe a seat is nobody forces the electorate to vote how they do though, and a recall doesn’t stop the incumbent from standing again under party colours if they’re allowed to Dorries isn’t standing again anyway but if she did try to and was remaining totally absent then I imagine she’d face a few problems winning even as the Conservative candidate I'm hopeful that the Tory candidate will have a few problems winning here, regardless of who they are... Well they certainly will if it’s a by-election, General Election is tougher to say as despite some of the worst polling the Tories aren’t going to lose all their seats so…
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YL
Non-Aligned
Either Labour leaning or Lib Dem leaning but not sure which
Posts: 4,866
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Post by YL on Aug 21, 2023 16:52:52 GMT
Was there not an Irish Republican MP in the 70s who wasn’t abstentionist and took the oath but very rarely ever turned up at Parliament over a few years? Frank Maguire, the Fermanagh & South Tyrone MP whose death caused the April 1981 by-election, yes.
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Chris from Brum
Lib Dem
What I need is a strong drink and a peer group.
Posts: 9,640
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Post by Chris from Brum on Aug 21, 2023 17:24:41 GMT
Was there not an Irish Republican MP in the 70s who wasn’t abstentionist and took the oath but very rarely ever turned up at Parliament over a few years? Frank Maguire, the Fermanagh & South Tyrone MP whose death caused the April 1981 by-election, yes. Famously turned up for the session that voted no confidence in the Callaghan government so he could "abstain in person". Otherwise attended rarely because his wife didn't want him being in London "with all those bombs going off" 😂
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Post by eastmidlandsright on Aug 21, 2023 17:46:33 GMT
But we know that certain seats are so rock solid red or blue that even absent MPs can be assured of almost guaranteed re-election. This is why Recall is such a powerful tool. If you're an MP just for the money and f--- the voters must have a tool to fight against MPs who don't pull their weight. We don't live in the era of Baronets having liquid lunches all day and never visiting constituency offices. At the 2001 general election Blaenau Gwent was Labour's safest seat in Wales and their fifth safest seat in the UK as a whole with a majority of over 19,000. At the 2005 general election they lost the seat by over 9,000 votes. Moral of the story, the safeness of a seat is entirely within the gift of the electorate.
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Post by heslingtonian on Aug 21, 2023 18:12:25 GMT
Frank Maguire, the Fermanagh & South Tyrone MP whose death caused the April 1981 by-election, yes. Famously turned up for the session that voted no confidence in the Callaghan government so he could "abstain in person". Otherwise attended rarely because his wife didn't want him being in London "with all those bombs going off" 😂 He owned a pub and refused to criticise the IRA as he believed if he did they'd blow his pub up according to Gerry Fitt in the BBC documentary "The Night the Government Fell" on the 1979 no confidence vote.
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