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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2013 13:53:29 GMT
Mark Fergusson on Labour List is having a go at the procedure but it is unclear what else could be different if you want a quick election. Is Iain Malcolm the clear favourite a product of Oxbridge etc.
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Apr 3, 2013 14:30:56 GMT
I think the point is that there's no need for a quick election. And whilst the local Labour hierarchy in the North East isn't generally Oxbridge-educated, it could certainly be accused of insularity.
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Apr 3, 2013 16:05:58 GMT
I have always thought that filling electoral vacancies quickly is - other things being equal, of course - a good thing. No idea why the shortlisting meeting is being held in London, though  |
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john07
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Post by john07 on Apr 3, 2013 16:07:31 GMT
Is the same system of voting that got Brother Ed elected? One member one vote, then the Unions get to decide who they want? You really haven't a clue have you? It is not the Trade Union leaders who decide who gets the vote it is the (levy paying) Trade Union members who decide via a postal ballot. |
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Post by stepney on Apr 3, 2013 16:42:14 GMT
I have always thought that filling electoral vacancies quickly is - other things being equal, of course - a good thing. No idea why the shortlisting meeting is being held in London, though Because this is a selection for the Labour candidacy for a safe seat, and as such NEC politics matters more in that than the wishes of Labour members in South Shields. |
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Post by andrea on Apr 3, 2013 17:40:26 GMT
I have always thought that filling electoral vacancies quickly is - other things being equal, of course - a good thing. No idea why the shortlisting meeting is being held in London, though I think all England and Wales by-elections shortlistings take place in London. Just for SLAB the NEC Panel travel to Glasgow. I have always thought that filling electoral vacancies quickly is - other things being equal, of course - a good thing. No idea why the shortlisting meeting is being held in London, though Because this is a selection for the Labour candidacy for a safe seat, and as such NEC politics matters more in that than the wishes of Labour members in South Shields. It is not that Keith Vaz-Tom Watson-Angela Eagle-whoever else is put on the NEC Panel will change the shortlisting composition just because the interviews take place in Newcastle rather than London...I suppose. If there are people who would apply to a selection only if the interviews take place in the regional offices, I suspect the NEC panel can get rid of them at long/short-listing stage anyway if they want. I fear the real answer is that the NEC people don't want to spend time travelling to other regions. |
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Post by Andrew_S on Apr 3, 2013 22:44:25 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2013 3:14:27 GMT
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Apr 4, 2013 11:54:08 GMT
If there are people who would apply to a selection only if the interviews take place in the regional offices, I suspect the NEC panel can get rid of them at long/short-listing stage anyway if they want. I fear the real answer is that the NEC people don't want to spend time travelling to other regions. The issue here is that travelling from the North East to London at short notice is expensive and tends to require a sympathetic employer. Obviously the NEC would rather not travel outside London, but the NEC gets its arm twisted to do enough other things it doesn't want to do. It wouldn't be a difficult change to make, even if we are going to require NEC shortlists for by-elections (which is an increasingly bizarre relic of the 1980s - most CLPs can be trusted not to pick a nutter, and the NEC has never been reluctant to put those that can't into special measures in the past.) |
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Post by andrea on Apr 4, 2013 12:32:33 GMT
The issue here is that travelling from the North East to London at short notice is expensive Agree. Fair point. and tends to require a sympathetic employer. They are holding them on a Saturday. People with regular working hours aren't probably affected by this. However, people into shift work or in particular sectors like restourants, hotels, supermarkets would probably busy also on Saturday and would have problems to change their working schedule at short notice. But I also suppose that these people would have to ask at least half a day off work even if they hold interviews in Newcastle (unless they plan to undergo the interview during the lunch break). So reflecting it seems to me that the biggest problem (in terms of employers and work arrangements) is the short notice as it doesn't allow people to organize themselves better without creating problems to others. It wouldn't be a difficult change to make, even if we are going to require NEC shortlists for by-elections (which is an increasingly bizarre relic of the 1980s - While discussing the Rotherham outcome, some NEC members complained about the shortlisting dynamics. EdM replied them remembering Thatchell and Daidree Wood. They are still used as excuse to continue with the current system. So I guess they have no intentions to put the relic to sleep. most CLPs can be trusted not to pick a nutter, Yes, I agree. But as somebody said here or somewhere else (maybe it was you, Al or Trident. I can't recall exactly), the NEC is sometimes over-concerned or a bit paranoid.. For ex, Cllr Hussain in Rotherham was not a nutter. Would have the dynamics of the campaign been different with him as candidate instead of the smiling woman who takes care of children? and the NEC has never been reluctant to put those that can't into special measures in the past.) and to keep them there. Warley CLP claim not to know why they were put in special measures years ago and why they still are under them. |
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Apr 4, 2013 12:43:03 GMT
Re the passing over of Cllr Hussain for Rotherham - I think it is arguable that Labour dodged a bullet there, not through any intrinsic defects of the man himself but due to how much more toxic the "Rotherham MBC stopped a UKIP supporter fostering" story might have been with a council member as candidate....
It is worth remembering that most by-election selections (even with the NEC input) are nowhere near as contentious as that one was - and in fact Ed is far from the only one to remember Tatchell, Wood and (let's not forget him!) Gillespie with facepalms. IMO the present system has on the whole served the party well and as long as it is not abused, I see no real reason why it should change - by-elections today still very much have their own different dynamics to a GE.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2013 13:06:16 GMT
in this parliament I think the selection process has worked well. The complaint is normal people can not get selected but hang on, in this campaign a normal person needs a month off work to campaign and if labour likely to win, how many normal employers would allow that ?
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Apr 4, 2013 13:08:40 GMT
By-elections are different creatures, but the impression of a stitch-up is never helpful (not least because it makes it harder to stitch things up when it's actually necessary to do so.) This seems like an ideal area to make half a concession - let the local exec make the shortlist in collaboration with just enough NEC reps to wield a veto. That way the local party gets their say, but the NEC retains a measure of control.
We did dodge a bullet in Rotheram, but imagine if it had happened in a more marginal seat and we'd lost it - the NEC would have borne the brunt of the blame. It makes sense for them to minimise the potential damage they expose themselves to.
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Apr 4, 2013 13:12:21 GMT
Ed is far from the only one to remember Tatchell, Wood and ( let's not forget him!) Gillespie with facepalms. I have forgotten him. Who/where was he? |
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Apr 4, 2013 13:13:53 GMT
Bob Gillespie, Glasgow Govan 1988?? Bit surprised at that tbh, Pete  |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Apr 4, 2013 13:52:02 GMT
I don't remember him at all. I remember the by-election certainly but wasn't aware that the quality or otherwise of the Labour candidate played a part in the way it did in Bermondsey and Greenwich. Tbf I was very drunk at the time
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Post by stepney on Apr 4, 2013 14:02:39 GMT
I don't remember him at all. I remember the by-election certainly but wasn't aware that the quality or otherwise of the Labour candidate played a part in the way it did in Bermondsey and Greenwich. Tbf I was very drunk at the time One source indicates he had "Love" and "Hate" tattooed on his knuckles...  |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Apr 4, 2013 14:07:00 GMT
I met Bob Gillespie when he came up to talk to Cambridge Labour Students c. 1992. Although a native Glaswegian he actually lived near Southend and worked as an official for the print union SOGAT. He had some pretty poor press conferences in which he stumbled when asked basic questions but the biggest problem he had during the campaign was on the STV byelection debate on the eve of poll when the candidates were allowed to cross-question each other. Jim Sillars made mincemeat of him.
He's the father of Bobby Gillespie of Primal Scream, incidentally.
(His knuckles actually read 'HONG' and 'KONG', and were a legacy of his days in the Royal Navy)
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andrea
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Post by andrea on Apr 4, 2013 21:17:56 GMT
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john07
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Post by john07 on Apr 4, 2013 23:32:13 GMT
I have always thought that filling electoral vacancies quickly is - other things being equal, of course - a good thing. No idea why the shortlisting meeting is being held in London, though I think all England and Wales by-elections shortlistings take place in London. Just for SLAB the NEC Panel travel to Glasgow. Because this is a selection for the Labour candidacy for a safe seat, and as such NEC politics matters more in that than the wishes of Labour members in South Shields. It is not that Keith Vaz-Tom Watson-Angela Eagle-whoever else is put on the NEC Panel will change the shortlisting composition just because the interviews take place in Newcastle rather than London...I suppose. If there are people who would apply to a selection only if the interviews take place in the regional offices, I suspect the NEC panel can get rid of them at long/short-listing stage anyway if they want. I fear the real answer is that the NEC people don't want to spend time travelling to other regions. The poor souls. Having to go all that way north. The worst excesses of the Blair era appear to be still with us. Anyway I didn't realize that time travelling was possible! |
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