Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 12,012
|
Post by Khunanup on Dec 30, 2023 22:01:29 GMT
The Ciudadanos were 'centrist', not liberal. Not the same thing at all. I'm not aware that Vox want to silence other points of view. Or that they don't support the constitution. Or the rule of law. Or equality before the law. Or that they want to impose speech codes. They are liberal...that they hold conservative social views is irrelevant Again, that just goes back to my previous point that "liberal" has lost all meaning. By that measure basically every political party in Europe is liberal. One of Vox's core policies is to make a swathe of regionalist and nationalist political parties illegal in Spain, which is hardly liberal. Banning mainstream political parties such as ERC, would I think we would all agree, be a form of silencing of views; even if we dont all agree with the policies of regionalists. www.lavanguardia.com/politica/20180603/444048797659/vox-ilegalizar-partidos-independentistas-barcelona.htmlAnd incidentally, Ciudadanos absolutely are/were a liberal party. Both socially and economically. By both your own definition of liberalism and more narrow definitions. Liberal has only lost its meaning if you listen to individuals who don't have the slightest understanding of Liberalism in the first place. Better not to feed that particular troll who appears to equate Conservatism with liberal economics as Liberalism, which couldn't be further from the truth. |
|
|
|
Post by Devil Wincarnate on Dec 30, 2023 22:10:25 GMT
has he rounded up his political opponents and put them on a show trial yet? (just kidding) He just proposed a law to ban public gathering of 3 persons or more and has announced the benefits of any protestor will be cancelled. But, of course, you don't care, as market rights are more important to you than human rights. The wording in the bill is "a gathering of 3 people if it impedes free transit or the provision of public services". Which is not the same as a ban on the gathering of 3 or more people. |
|
|
|
Post by edgbaston on Dec 30, 2023 22:30:58 GMT
He just proposed a law to ban public gathering of 3 persons or more and has announced the benefits of any protestor will be cancelled. But, of course, you don't care, as market rights are more important to you than human rights. The wording in the bill is "a gathering of 3 people if it impedes free transit or the provision of public services". Which is not the same as a ban on the gathering of 3 or more people. In letter but not in practice as far as enforcement is concerned.. |
|
maxque
Non-Aligned
Posts: 9,308 
|
Post by maxque on Dec 30, 2023 23:01:07 GMT
He just proposed a law to ban public gathering of 3 persons or more and has announced the benefits of any protestor will be cancelled. But, of course, you don't care, as market rights are more important to you than human rights. The wording in the bill is "a gathering of 3 people if it impedes free transit or the provision of public services". Which is not the same as a ban on the gathering of 3 or more people. I know that you are smarter than that, and also, you totally ignored the other half of the sentence. |
|
observer
Non-Aligned
Posts: 2,545
Member is Online
|
Post by observer on Dec 30, 2023 23:25:30 GMT
Again, that just goes back to my previous point that "liberal" has lost all meaning. By that measure basically every political party in Europe is liberal. One of Vox's core policies is to make a swathe of regionalist and nationalist political parties illegal in Spain, which is hardly liberal. Banning mainstream political parties such as ERC, would I think we would all agree, be a form of silencing of views; even if we dont all agree with the policies of regionalists. www.lavanguardia.com/politica/20180603/444048797659/vox-ilegalizar-partidos-independentistas-barcelona.htmlAnd incidentally, Ciudadanos absolutely are/were a liberal party. Both socially and economically. By both your own definition of liberalism and more narrow definitions. Liberal has only lost its meaning if you listen to individuals who don't have the slightest understanding of Liberalism in the first place. Better not to feed that particular troll who appears to equate Conservatism with liberal economics as Liberalism, which couldn't be further from the truth. Read JS Mill and then assess how the current 'centrists' measure up. And grow up. Don't insult me with childish abuse. |
|
maxque
Non-Aligned
Posts: 9,308
|
Post by maxque on Dec 30, 2023 23:30:36 GMT
Liberal has only lost its meaning if you listen to individuals who don't have the slightest understanding of Liberalism in the first place. Better not to feed that particular troll who appears to equate Conservatism with liberal economics as Liberalism, which couldn't be further from the truth. Read JS Mill and then assess how the current 'centrists' measure up. And grow up. Don't insult me with childish abuse. The man was also a supported of company rule in India. I think he is outdated to judge what modern liberalism is, unless you think liberalism is a dessicated corpse. |
|
observer
Non-Aligned
Posts: 2,545
Member is Online
|
Post by observer on Dec 30, 2023 23:40:30 GMT
Read JS Mill and then assess how the current 'centrists' measure up. And grow up. Don't insult me with childish abuse. The man was also a supported of company rule in India. I think he is outdated to judge what modern liberalism is, unless you think liberalism is a dessicated corpse. The principles of classical liberalism are not outdated at all. How would you define liberalism? |
|
|
|
Post by Devil Wincarnate on Dec 31, 2023 0:07:32 GMT
The wording in the bill is "a gathering of 3 people if it impedes free transit or the provision of public services". Which is not the same as a ban on the gathering of 3 or more people. I know that you are smarter than that, and also, you totally ignored the other half of the sentence. That is the wording I had from La Nacion, I'm happy to be proven otherwise. |
|
The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,925
Member is Online
|
Post by The Bishop on Dec 31, 2023 10:17:25 GMT
Read JS Mill and then assess how the current 'centrists' measure up. And grow up. Don't insult me with childish abuse. You actually think that Khunanup hasn't read Mill? For all my differences with him, he has forgotten more about liberalism than you will ever know. And yes, I have also read some Mill. Not to mention Hobbes, Locke, Rousseau, Burke, Marx and Gramsci. I even tried to read Hegel once (but only once) Appealing to authority on here isn't a terribly good idea, my friend. |
|
observer
Non-Aligned
Posts: 2,545
Member is Online
|
Post by observer on Dec 31, 2023 10:21:41 GMT
Read JS Mill and then assess how the current 'centrists' measure up. And grow up. Don't insult me with childish abuse. You actually think that Khunanup hasn't read Mill? For all my differences with him, he has forgotten more about liberalism than you will ever know. And yes, I have also read some Mill. Not to mention Hobbes, Locke, Rousseau, Burke, Marx and Gramsci. I even tried to read Hegel once (but only once) Appealing to authority on here isn't a terribly good idea, my friend. But does he understand Mill and liberal principles? If you are going to reply then do it without puerile personal abuse |
|
|
|
Post by Antiochian on Dec 31, 2023 15:53:06 GMT
The BBC have changed the language now. Milei is a now a "populist right-winger", and Massa is "left-leaning". Closer, probably still inaccurate in both cases. Hmmm... some of these journos maybe asked themselves how a "Nazi" or "fascist" is surrounded by so many Hasidim... and they found the answers lacking...  |
|
|
|
Post by uthacalthing on Dec 31, 2023 20:48:54 GMT
has he rounded up his political opponents and put them on a show trial yet? (just kidding) He just .............. announced the benefits of any protestor will be cancelled. Now that seems very sensible. If I publicly denounce my paymaster, I get disciplined, why should the workshy have more rights than me? I think you will find that he cancels the benefits of far more people than just those who protest. But its a start. The taxpayers will be happy. All 40 of them. |
|
|
|
Post by uthacalthing on Dec 31, 2023 20:52:44 GMT
Read JS Mill and then assess how the current 'centrists' measure up. And grow up. Don't insult me with childish abuse. You actually think that Khunanup hasn't read Mill? He has read it dozens of times, with his lips moving and his eyebrows furrowing on every occasion. |
|
Georg Ebner
Non-Aligned
Roman romantic reactionary Catholic
Posts: 9,824
|
Post by Georg Ebner on Jan 1, 2024 7:36:00 GMT
Read JS Mill and then assess how the current 'centrists' measure up. And grow up. Don't insult me with childish abuse. You actually think that Khunanup hasn't read Mill? For all my differences with him, he has forgotten more about liberalism than you will ever know. And yes, I have also read some Mill. Not to mention Hobbes, Locke, Rousseau, Burke, Marx and Gramsci. I even tried to read Hegel once (but only once) Appealing to authority on here isn't a terribly good idea, my friend. Laughable statement, when that person has repeatedly declared his proudness of being completely inerudite. |
|
maxque
Non-Aligned
Posts: 9,308
|
Post by maxque on Jan 1, 2024 15:38:51 GMT
You actually think that Khunanup hasn't read Mill? For all my differences with him, he has forgotten more about liberalism than you will ever know. And yes, I have also read some Mill. Not to mention Hobbes, Locke, Rousseau, Burke, Marx and Gramsci. I even tried to read Hegel once (but only once) Appealing to authority on here isn't a terribly good idea, my friend. Laughable statement, when that person has repeatedly declared his proudness of being completely inerudite. Erudition isn't the ability to quote random authors as a replacement for thinking. |
|
|
|
Post by carlton43 on Jan 1, 2024 16:22:56 GMT
Laughable statement, when that person has repeatedly declared his proudness of being completely inerudite. Erudition isn't the ability to quote random authors as a replacement for thinking. It is possible to be an important and a deep thinker without being erudite or well-read. It is all too easy to be very well-read and not erudite. |
|
observer
Non-Aligned
Posts: 2,545
Member is Online
|
Post by observer on Jan 2, 2024 12:40:44 GMT
As we used to say when in a ribald mood: Let's all bash the bishop 😂😂
|
|
The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,925
Member is Online
|
Post by The Bishop on Jan 2, 2024 13:19:12 GMT
Who says any of the above posts are referring to me? And maybe you could cite some of this supposed "puerile abuse" upthread while you are at it.
|
|
Georg Ebner
Non-Aligned
Roman romantic reactionary Catholic
Posts: 9,824
|
Post by Georg Ebner on Jan 2, 2024 21:53:22 GMT
Erudition isn't the ability to quote random authors as a replacement for thinking. It is possible to be an important and a deep thinker without being erudite or well-read. It is all too easy to be very well-read and not erudite. Indeed, even more: "A deep thinker" must usually be tyrannic - "God rescue us from the bossiness of philosophers!" (BURCKHARDT, who had heard in His youth lectures of SCHELLING) - and will as a result inevitably misunderstand others, cf. how PLATO has been mistreated by ARISTOTLE or KANT or HEIDEGGER. Or RUSSELL's or JODL's pseudoWorks on philosophyHistory; on the other hand DILTHEY, who was too nuanced for being a firstClass philoSopher (but in reTurn an excellent historian). In my youth, when i was still searching verity, i was on the one hand the profound&introspect "Greek"/"German", who did not care a little bit, what the whole surRounding said: my soul is of importance&worth, manKind and the physical universe is of none. But at the same time i was the power-conscious&practical "Roman"/"AngloSaxon" enough to be aware, that it could not be far away from "the common sense" ("quod ubique, quod semper, quod ab omnibus creditum est") of our pagan&catholic maiores (and what even the modern & democratic dogmatists must believe unconsciously). Cf. DESCARTES, who was perhaps the proudest aristoCrat and solitaire of worldHistory, but insisted nonetheless to believe noThing else than "the simple farmer on the field". |
|
|
|
Post by Antiochian on Jan 3, 2024 10:37:01 GMT
Milei has cut off government stipends for bishops and other Catholic clerics... They will have to rely upon the collection plate going forward... its called "spreading the pain" lol www.clarin.com/politica/cambio-historico-iglesia-catolica-recibira-aporte-economico_0_aSw5lJld1n.htmlIts interesting in that this overthrows a payment system brought in by the last dictatorship, which ended 40 years ago. More than a few of the laws that were revoked by Milei's megadecree harked back to the dictatorships (e.g. the hotels law of 1970). |
|
