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Post by Delighted Of Tunbridge Wells on Jul 1, 2023 18:46:24 GMT
If a particular socialist does, he likely learnt it off the experts in the matter (primarily, but not exclusively, the Catholic Church). You can't seriously be that naive? If you expect me to be even handed on the matter of Christianity, then think again. I have my beliefs on the matter. |
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Post by Delighted Of Tunbridge Wells on Jul 1, 2023 18:48:22 GMT
The guy has a right to his religious views. He should have a right to express them (as long as they don't extend to advocating violence or discrimination). His party has a right to deselect him if so minded. His electors have a right to vote, or not to vote, for him if the particular issue is of interest to them. His position on the school body depends on what the rules are. The man was elected on a Conservative manifesto. He should stand for a party like the Christian People's Alliance who shares his views, if he cannot effectively represent the Conservative party manifesto he was elected to implement. |
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Crimson King
Lib Dem
Be nice to each other and sing in tune
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Post by Crimson King on Jul 1, 2023 18:51:52 GMT
The guy has a right to his religious views. He should have a right to express them (as long as they don't extend to advocating violence or discrimination). His party has a right to deselect him if so minded. His electors have a right to vote, or not to vote, for him if the particular issue is of interest to them. His position on the school body depends on what the rules are. The man was elected on a Conservative manifesto. He should stand for a party like the Christian People's Alliance who shares his views, if he cannot effectively represent the Conservative party manifesto he was elected to implement. crikey, if the Conservative manifesto has a section on “Sin, absence of” it is more comprehensive than I expected |
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Sandy
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Post by Sandy on Jul 1, 2023 22:12:07 GMT
You can't seriously be that naive? If you expect me to be even handed on the matter of Christianity, then think again. I have my beliefs on the matter. Is there anything substantial or just strawmans and ad hominems/conspiracy theories? |
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Post by Delighted Of Tunbridge Wells on Jul 1, 2023 22:51:23 GMT
The man was elected on a Conservative manifesto. He should stand for a party like the Christian People's Alliance who shares his views, if he cannot effectively represent the Conservative party manifesto he was elected to implement. crikey, if the Conservative manifesto has a section on “Sin, absence of” it is more comprehensive than I expected Check page 666.... |
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Post by Delighted Of Tunbridge Wells on Jul 1, 2023 22:57:18 GMT
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Post by carlton43 on Jul 1, 2023 22:59:55 GMT
Woden. The mainstream opions in my youth now made to be a social crime even to be mentioned. Sick dreadful nation this has become. This is Britain now. Take it or leave it, doesn't matter. We're not going back to being ruled by scroungers who live off the work of others, by claiming to be a representative of a God. I Leave It. Nasty deracinated toxic, place full of sloth greed, envy and lust, as the pinnacle of its debased wants. The scroungers who live of the work of others are the one third of the nation termed the 'Benefits Society' and not the hardworking and often very useful clerics. |
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Sandy
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Post by Sandy on Jul 1, 2023 23:01:54 GMT
What’s your point caller? |
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Post by carlton43 on Jul 1, 2023 23:05:43 GMT
So are rights. So is 'progress' So is fairness So is socialism No, they all apply to real situations and real legal processes. 'Sin' appears only in works of fiction. Only in what you are pleased to term your mind which is another fiction of the French Enlightenment. They are all 'real' to those holding to them and believing. No one is more real than another. Socialism is as much a cult based on various myths as any other religion. Legal processes are all arbitary abstract fictions but ones you believe in. |
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Post by carlton43 on Jul 1, 2023 23:13:42 GMT
Woden. The mainstream opions in my youth now made to be a social crime even to be mentioned. Sick dreadful nation this has become. I wonder about this from a philosophical point of view.
I suspect most of his opponents wouldn't actually accept the concept of 'sin' as designated by the Christian church, and I was wondering also what Woden's view was on the idea? Woden would and does have his ethics and norms of behaviour that he enforces whether you like them, believe them or not. He will smite bad behaviour with illnesses, travails, ill-luck, tragedy and death, because he is a hard and savage God determined to get his way. He does not attempt to use persuasion nor does he demand obedience. He sees sin in much the same way as do all other Gods and for the same reasons. These are the necessary rules of life to make it tolerable, decent and safe. Do it his way or else. Suits me. Happy with that. |
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Post by carlton43 on Jul 2, 2023 0:05:56 GMT
If a particular socialist does, he likely learnt it off the experts in the matter (primarily, but not exclusively, the Catholic Church). You can't seriously be that naive? Oh! I think that we all know that he is. |
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Post by carlton43 on Jul 2, 2023 0:44:15 GMT
What’s your point caller? It is known as the 'Rotherham Defence'. |
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Post by Delighted Of Tunbridge Wells on Jul 2, 2023 6:42:15 GMT
This is Britain now. Take it or leave it, doesn't matter. We're not going back to being ruled by scroungers who live off the work of others, by claiming to be a representative of a God. I Leave It. Nasty deracinated toxic, place full of sloth greed, envy and lust, as the pinnacle of its debased wants. The scroungers who live of the work of others are the one third of the nation termed the 'Benefits Society' and not the hardworking and often very useful clerics. The toxicity doesn't come from the lack of religion. Many unholy crimes were committed by supposedly religious people. The toxicity comes from neoliberalism destroying the fabric of our society in the name of individualism, which both you and I oppose (I think - I had you down as a traditional Conservative) to some extent, from different viewpoints. |
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Post by Delighted Of Tunbridge Wells on Jul 2, 2023 6:44:32 GMT
What’s your point caller? That the major churches in this country are to the detriment of the British people and they should explicitly state if they have religious views not shared by the majority (that they will implement as an elected representative) before they are elected, or stand for an explicitly religious party. Otherwise, this is dishonesty. |
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Post by yellowperil on Jul 2, 2023 7:38:40 GMT
If you expect me to be even handed on the matter of Christianity, then think again. I have my beliefs on the matter. Is there anything substantial or just strawmans and ad hominems/conspiracy theories? Are you sure it is reasonable to pluralise strawman and ad hominem by adding s in each case?  |
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Sibboleth
Labour
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Post by Sibboleth on Jul 2, 2023 7:40:01 GMT
There is a major fraud case ongoing involving one of the largest trade unions in the country and one of the smaller trade unions is on the verge of collapse due to a conspiracy to cover up sexual harassment claims against its now former General Secretary. This does not mean that trade unions are inherently awful organizations of no value to the public, it is simply an illustration of the unfortunate fact that all human institutions are fallible due to the inherently fallible nature of human beings.
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Chris from Brum
Lib Dem
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Post by Chris from Brum on Jul 2, 2023 8:01:36 GMT
There is a major fraud case ongoing involving one of the largest trade unions in the country and one of the smaller trade unions is on the verge of collapse due to a conspiracy to cover up sexual harassment claims against its now former General Secretary. This does not mean that trade unions are inherently awful organizations of no value to the public, it is simply an illustration of the unfortunate fact that all human institutions are fallible due to the inherently fallible nature of human beings. Churches, however, have a habit of moving their errant priests from one parish to another without warning the new parish why, or sending them on extended "retreat" out of the public eye, rather than doing what they ought to and defrocking them. One gets the emphasis on the principle of forgiveness, but where criminal actions are involved the churches need to front up and clean up. |
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Sandy
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Post by Sandy on Jul 2, 2023 8:07:06 GMT
What’s your point caller? That the major churches in this country are to the detriment of the British people and they should explicitly state if they have religious views not shared by the majority (that they will implement as an elected representative) before they are elected, or stand for an explicitly religious party. Otherwise, this is dishonesty. That is barking mad, if you don’t like their views then don’t vote for them. |
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Sandy
Forum Regular
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Post by Sandy on Jul 2, 2023 8:17:04 GMT
There is a major fraud case ongoing involving one of the largest trade unions in the country and one of the smaller trade unions is on the verge of collapse due to a conspiracy to cover up sexual harassment claims against its now former General Secretary. This does not mean that trade unions are inherently awful organizations of no value to the public, it is simply an illustration of the unfortunate fact that all human institutions are fallible due to the inherently fallible nature of human beings. Churches, however, have a habit of moving their errant priests from one parish to another without warning the new parish why, or sending them on extended "retreat" out of the public eye, rather than doing what they ought to and defrocking them. One gets the emphasis on the principle of forgiveness, but where criminal actions are involved the churches need to front up and clean up. That’s a quirk of an Episcopal polity. It wouldn’t happen in a Presbyterian polity where a new minister is chosen by the church elders rather than imposed from above. |
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r34t
Non-Aligned
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Post by r34t on Jul 2, 2023 8:41:10 GMT
Churches, however, have a habit of moving their errant priests from one parish to another without warning the new parish why, or sending them on extended "retreat" out of the public eye, rather than doing what they ought to and defrocking them. One gets the emphasis on the principle of forgiveness, but where criminal actions are involved the churches need to front up and clean up. That’s a quirk of an Episcopal polity. It wouldn’t happen in a Presbyterian polity where a new minister is chosen by the church elders rather than imposed from above. I’m not sure it’s a ‘quirk’, more a reflection of the underlying philosophical view of leadership, which is one of the reasons the RC church has more problems than most on this front. |
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