Harry Hayfield
Green
Cavalier Gentleman (as in 17th century Cavalier)
Posts: 2,922 
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Post by Harry Hayfield on May 9, 2021 18:16:12 GMT
Caused by: The disqualification of the Conservative candidate in the original election by means of a historical driving offence www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-57048309Well, come on, of course there is going to be one. Wiltshire is rock solid Conservative |
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Post by finsobruce on May 9, 2021 18:24:12 GMT
Caused by: The disqualification of the Conservative candidate in the original election by means of a historical driving offence www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-57048309Well, come on, of course there is going to be one. Wiltshire is rock solid ConservativeIt will be interesting to see just low the turnout can go in the by re run new election * |
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peterl
Green
Congratulations President Trump
Posts: 8,468
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Post by peterl on May 9, 2021 19:08:44 GMT
Will be interesting to see if the Lib Dems decide to throw the kitchen sink at it. On a low turnout with a good candidate and a decent campaing...well funny things do happen in PCC elections.
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Chris from Brum
Lib Dem
What I need is a strong drink and a peer group.
Posts: 9,729
Member is Online
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Post by Chris from Brum on May 9, 2021 19:29:35 GMT
Will be interesting to see if the Lib Dems decide to throw the kitchen sink at it. On a low turnout with a good candidate and a decent campaing...well funny things do happen in PCC elections. It might be a good one to try for. But I think the police area includes Swindon, so not quite so simple. |
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Merseymike
Independent
Posts: 40,417
Member is Online
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Post by Merseymike on May 9, 2021 19:52:05 GMT
But does there have to be one? Or does the second placed individual win by default? Thinking Tony Benn's disqualification in Bristol SE
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on May 9, 2021 19:57:42 GMT
But does there have to be one? Or does the second placed individual win by default? Thinking Tony Benn's disqualification in Bristol SE If Seed is declared elected, there would have to be a new election. The concept of 'votes thrown away' only applies if the disqualification was known to the voters before the election - in the case of Bristol South East and in the two Sinn Féin elections in Northern Ireland in 1955, their opponents plastered the constituencies with pseudo-legal notices formally informing everyone that the candidate was disqualified. |
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Post by 🏴☠️ Neath West 🏴☠️ on May 9, 2021 21:19:21 GMT
The rules might just be ever so slightly ridiculous here. What heinous motoring offence did he commit 30 years ago?
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on May 9, 2021 21:25:54 GMT
The issue is that the disqualifications for PCC are very strict - far stricter than for any other post. Anyone who has ever, when aged 18 or over, been convicted of an office which carries a potential sentence of imprisonment is disqualified, whether or not they were imprisoned for it.
This rule caught out a lot of candidates in 2012. The Labour candidate in Northants turned out to be disqualified but it was only discovered after nomination.
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Post by WestCountryRadical on May 9, 2021 21:47:51 GMT
The issue is that the disqualifications for PCC are very strict - far stricter than for any other post. Anyone who has ever, when aged 18 or over, been convicted of an office which carries a potential sentence of imprisonment is disqualified, whether or not they were imprisoned for it. This rule caught out a lot of candidates in 2012. The Labour candidate in Northants turned out to be disqualified but it was only discovered after nomination. Despite those mistakes in 2012, some in the Conservative Party are still ignorant of the electoral law: “I have declared my 30-year-old driving conviction to the Party in my applications both to be a Parliamentary candidate and more recently a PCC candidate.
“Party officials confirmed my belief that my offence did not disqualify me.” |
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Post by greenchristian on May 9, 2021 22:01:33 GMT
The issue is that the disqualifications for PCC are very strict - far stricter than for any other post. Anyone who has ever, when aged 18 or over, been convicted of an office which carries a potential sentence of imprisonment is disqualified, whether or not they were imprisoned for it. This rule caught out a lot of candidates in 2012. The Labour candidate in Northants turned out to be disqualified but it was only discovered after nomination. Despite those mistakes in 2012, some in the Conservative Party are still ignorant of the electoral law: “I have declared my 30-year-old driving conviction to the Party in my applications both to be a Parliamentary candidate and more recently a PCC candidate.
“Party officials confirmed my belief that my offence did not disqualify me.”This is the party that introduced PCCs in the first place. And one that seems to require all candidates for offices higher than councillor to be approved by the national party before they can be selected. They have absolutely no excuse for getting it wrong.
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Post by finsobruce on May 9, 2021 22:10:09 GMT
The rules might just be ever so slightly ridiculous here. What heinous motoring offence did he commit 30 years ago? According to the man himself, (quoted in the BBC article) it was drink driving. |
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Post by redvers on May 9, 2021 23:28:15 GMT
Far be it for me to defend a Conservative but there's no point talking about rehabilitation if an offence on this level from 30 years ago is going to follow you for the rest of your life. Bonkers.
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Post by finsobruce on May 10, 2021 7:30:16 GMT
Far be it for me to defend a Conservative but there's no point talking about rehabilitation if an offence on this level from 30 years ago is going to follow you for the rest of your life. Bonkers. I certainly agree with that, but as greenchristian pointed out it was the Conservatives that introduced the posts and the rules about criminal records and they've also had ample opportunity to change it if they so wanted. They didn't want.
And they will, in all probability, be clear favourites to win the by new election. So in the end they won't have lost anything.
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neilm
Non-Aligned
Posts: 25,023
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Post by neilm on May 10, 2021 23:06:19 GMT
Far be it for me to defend a Conservative but there's no point talking about rehabilitation if an offence on this level from 30 years ago is going to follow you for the rest of your life. Bonkers. Exactly. Say you're a 58 year old who got convicted of shoplifting when you were 18 and you got 3 months. For the subsequent forty years, you've led an exemplary life with not even a speeding or parking ticket. We either rehabilitate people or we don't. Additionally, and ultimately, no one died and nothing and no one was injured. It's time we stepped back and looked again at whether an offence should carry the risk of prison time. I appreciate this is a minority viewpoint. |
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peterl
Green
Congratulations President Trump
Posts: 8,468
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Post by peterl on May 10, 2021 23:15:52 GMT
Far be it for me to defend a Conservative but there's no point talking about rehabilitation if an offence on this level from 30 years ago is going to follow you for the rest of your life. Bonkers. Exactly. Say you're a 58 year old who got convicted of shoplifting when you were 18 and you got 3 months. For the subsequent forty years, you've led an exemplary life with not even a speeding or parking ticket. We either rehabilitate people or we don't. Additionally, and ultimately, no one died and nothing and no one was injured. It's time we stepped back and looked again at whether an offence should carry the risk of prison time. I appreciate this is a minority viewpoint. But it wasn't shoplifting. It was drink driving, a reckless activity that carries the risk of killing someone. And from what we are hearing, it was not when he was anything like 18 either. |
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Post by Defenestrated Fipplebox on May 11, 2021 5:41:12 GMT
Exactly. Say you're a 58 year old who got convicted of shoplifting when you were 18 and you got 3 months. For the subsequent forty years, you've led an exemplary life with not even a speeding or parking ticket. We either rehabilitate people or we don't. Additionally, and ultimately, no one died and nothing and no one was injured. It's time we stepped back and looked again at whether an offence should carry the risk of prison time. I appreciate this is a minority viewpoint. But it wasn't shoplifting. It was drink driving, a reckless activity that carries the risk of killing someone. And from what we are hearing, it was not when he was anything like 18 either.
As he said, you either believe in rehabilitation or not.
I wonder if anyone here hasn't, even unintentionally, driven when over the legal limit, and just not been stopped / caught when, unitentionally, doing so. We're not all whiter than white, some just luckier than others.
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Post by tonyhill on May 11, 2021 6:12:23 GMT
How many of us decide we want to be a Police and Crime Commissioner?
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Post by matureleft on May 12, 2021 6:21:31 GMT
Turning to the election in prospect, rather than the rights and wrongs of a Tory-crafted law establishing these unnecessary posts, one could assume three things:
1. A calamitously poor turnout.
2. A resentment among those that do bother against those seen as responsible for wasting public money (how much will this cost?). The fingers can only point one way on that.
3. There'll be an opportunity for an independent to make an impact.
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Post by nobodyimportant on May 12, 2021 7:06:08 GMT
But it wasn't shoplifting. It was drink driving, a reckless activity that carries the risk of killing someone. And from what we are hearing, it was not when he was anything like 18 either.
As he said, you either believe in rehabilitation or not.
I wonder if anyone here hasn't, even unintentionally, driven when over the legal limit, and just not been stopped / caught when, unitentionally, doing so. We're not all whiter than white, some just luckier than others.
I would hope that all of us on here who do not drive would fall into that category. I know that I certainly haven't. Anyone teetotal as well. It is a serious offence, and should be treated as such. On the other hand, a spent conviction is a spent conviction and should not matter (beyond possible inclusion in other candidates' campaign literature). |
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Post by andrew111 on May 12, 2021 9:47:38 GMT
Will be interesting to see if the Lib Dems decide to throw the kitchen sink at it. On a low turnout with a good candidate and a decent campaing...well funny things do happen in PCC elections. Greens will probably stand and scupper Lib Dem chances |
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