Richard Allen
Banned
Four time loser in VUKPOTY finals
Posts: 19,052
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Post by Richard Allen on Jun 19, 2021 9:57:15 GMT
I was very pleased with this result for three reasons. Firstly I was able to make a few quid as anybody who failed to see the value in the Lib Dem odds has no business betting. Secondly I was happy to see this bloody awful government given a kicking. Thirdly it was nice to see the Lib Dems remind everyone that they are the most dishonest bunch of shysters that you could ever be unfortunate enough to meet. Their campaign was a quite simply superb appeal to selfish nimbyism and the maintenance of wealth by the comfortable middle class. Next time any of these sods start talking about affordable housing or opportunities for the young we all know exactly how seriously to take them. Those fine words in the preamble of their constitution that they are so proud of mean nothing. There is no principle that they hold that they would not sell if the number of votes offered was high enough. They have re-established themselves as the ultimate opportunists in British politics. Could you expand on this point since I don't think you've mentioned it before? That is the joy of your party, every time I think I have said it all you give me more material to work with. So fear not, next time you sell one of supposed principles for electoral gain I will be here to point it out. |
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Post by Merseymike on Jun 19, 2021 9:58:54 GMT
I would like to clarify that I liked this for the third point primarily (and the first a bit) and don't endorse the second. I'm not against the government getting a kicking per se and would have been delighted if it had been delivered by our friend london(ex)tory or any similar kind of outfit, but I will never back the Lib Dems against the Conservatives, even at the times when I have actively hated the latter (I will always hate the Lib Dems more). Certainly not pleased with the result, but happy with the two by by-products mentioned (firstly and thirdly) Secretly I was hoping for a very narrow Lib Dem win, with a majority less than my vote. Obviously that didn’t happen in the end but it was always a distinct possibility. In those circumstances the govt would have got its utterly deserved kicking, I could have claimed to have had an impact, and the residents of C&A would only be saddled with a Lib Dem MP for a couple of years or so. Given the Tory candidate’s evidently very successful career in business, he was far less impressive as a candidate than he should have been. The only thing notable about him during the campaign was his height, which meant in all the campaign photos I saw on Tory friends’ Facebook feeds he was placed at the back and not immediately obvious as the candidate at all. Skills which make someone a successful businessman don't necessarily transfer to a by election, though, or indeed, to politics more broadly. Law, education and the third sector seem very well represented. It would be interesting to see what roles MPS who worked in business fulfilled. |
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Richard Allen
Banned
Four time loser in VUKPOTY finals
Posts: 19,052
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Post by Richard Allen on Jun 19, 2021 9:59:50 GMT
I was very pleased with this result for three reasons. Firstly I was able to make a few quid as anybody who failed to see the value in the Lib Dem odds has no business betting. Secondly I was happy to see this bloody awful government given a kicking. Thirdly it was nice to see the Lib Dems remind everyone that they are the most dishonest bunch of shysters that you could ever be unfortunate enough to meet. Their campaign was a quite simply superb appeal to selfish nimbyism and the maintenance of wealth by the comfortable middle class. Next time any of these sods start talking about affordable housing or opportunities for the young we all know exactly how seriously to take them. Those fine words in the preamble of their constitution that they are so proud of mean nothing. There is no principle that they hold that they would not sell if the number of votes offered was high enough. They have re-established themselves as the ultimate opportunists in British politics. You say the sweetest things. But they are so very much deserved. |
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Post by johnloony on Jun 19, 2021 10:03:52 GMT
I was very pleased with this result for three reasons. Firstly I was able to make a few quid as anybody who failed to see the value in the Lib Dem odds has no business betting. Secondly I was happy to see this bloody awful government given a kicking. Thirdly it was nice to see the Lib Dems remind everyone that they are the most dishonest bunch of shysters that you could ever be unfortunate enough to meet. Their campaign was a quite simply superb appeal to selfish nimbyism and the maintenance of wealth by the comfortable middle class. Next time any of these sods start talking about affordable housing or opportunities for the young we all know exactly how seriously to take them. Those fine words in the preamble of their constitution that they are so proud of mean nothing. There is no principle that they hold that they would not sell if the number of votes offered was high enough. They have re-established themselves as the ultimate opportunists in British politics. Do you also get any joy from the fact that it's the worst ever result for Labour in a parliamentary by-election? |
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,904
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Post by The Bishop on Jun 19, 2021 10:04:26 GMT
I would like to clarify that I liked this for the third point primarily (and the first a bit) and don't endorse the second. I'm not against the government getting a kicking per se and would have been delighted if it had been delivered by our friend london(ex)tory or any similar kind of outfit, but I will never back the Lib Dems against the Conservatives, even at the times when I have actively hated the latter (I will always hate the Lib Dems more). Certainly not pleased with the result, but happy with the two by by-products mentioned (firstly and thirdly) Secretly I was hoping for a very narrow Lib Dem win, with a majority less than my vote. Obviously that didn’t happen in the end but it was always a distinct possibility. In those circumstances the govt would have got its utterly deserved kicking, I could have claimed to have had an impact, and the residents of C&A would only be saddled with a Lib Dem MP for a couple of years or so. Given the Tory candidate’s evidently very successful career in business, he was far less impressive as a candidate than he should have been. The only thing notable about him during the campaign was his height, which meant in all the campaign photos I saw on Tory friends’ Facebook feeds he was placed at the back and not immediately obvious as the candidate at all. I can relate to this, for some reason or other. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2021 10:16:52 GMT
Daniel Kawczynski remains the tallest MP, but at 6ft 9in, there would only have been a hair's breadth between him and Fleet.
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,904
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Post by The Bishop on Jun 19, 2021 10:20:22 GMT
I was very pleased with this result for three reasons. Firstly I was able to make a few quid as anybody who failed to see the value in the Lib Dem odds has no business betting. Secondly I was happy to see this bloody awful government given a kicking. Thirdly it was nice to see the Lib Dems remind everyone that they are the most dishonest bunch of shysters that you could ever be unfortunate enough to meet. Their campaign was a quite simply superb appeal to selfish nimbyism and the maintenance of wealth by the comfortable middle class. Next time any of these sods start talking about affordable housing or opportunities for the young we all know exactly how seriously to take them. Those fine words in the preamble of their constitution that they are so proud of mean nothing. There is no principle that they hold that they would not sell if the number of votes offered was high enough. They have re-established themselves as the ultimate opportunists in British politics. Do you also get any joy from the fact that it's the worst ever result for Labour in a parliamentary by-election? Tbh its not clear why scoring precisely 0.1% worse than Winchester in 1997 (when Labour led the Tories by 30+ points in the polls) has the almost mystical significance that some on both ends of the political spectrum are trying to claim. |
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Post by Merseymike on Jun 19, 2021 10:23:32 GMT
Do you also get any joy from the fact that it's the worst ever result for Labour in a parliamentary by-election? Tbh its not clear why scoring precisely 0.1% worse than Winchester in 1997 (when Labour led the Tories by 30+ points in the polls) has the almost mystical significance that some on both ends of the political spectrum are trying to claim. The result is in Monster Raving Loony territory, but it's not that surprising. Batley, on the other hand, will matter. |
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Richard Allen
Banned
Four time loser in VUKPOTY finals
Posts: 19,052
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Post by Richard Allen on Jun 19, 2021 10:29:58 GMT
I was very pleased with this result for three reasons. Firstly I was able to make a few quid as anybody who failed to see the value in the Lib Dem odds has no business betting. Secondly I was happy to see this bloody awful government given a kicking. Thirdly it was nice to see the Lib Dems remind everyone that they are the most dishonest bunch of shysters that you could ever be unfortunate enough to meet. Their campaign was a quite simply superb appeal to selfish nimbyism and the maintenance of wealth by the comfortable middle class. Next time any of these sods start talking about affordable housing or opportunities for the young we all know exactly how seriously to take them. Those fine words in the preamble of their constitution that they are so proud of mean nothing. There is no principle that they hold that they would not sell if the number of votes offered was high enough. They have re-established themselves as the ultimate opportunists in British politics. Do you also get any joy from the fact that it's the worst ever result for Labour in a parliamentary by-election? It is a matter of supreme indifference to me. |
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Post by yellowperil on Jun 19, 2021 10:52:50 GMT
I have to say I'm none too happy from a LD perspective with anyone making a big thing out of the very low Labour vote in C&A. It looks as if there may have been a very informal decision to back pedal in C&A in order to concentrate on B&S. If it wasn't a tacit agreement between LDs and Labour then maybe it ought to have been. It is just sensible prioritising in the face of the vagaries of a FPTP system. Drawing undue attention to a very low Labour vote makes it more likely that such sensible prioritising of effort doesn't happen again.
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Post by johnloony on Jun 19, 2021 10:53:17 GMT
Tbh its not clear why scoring precisely 0.1% worse than Winchester in 1997 (when Labour led the Tories by 30+ points in the polls) has the almost mystical significance that some on both ends of the political spectrum are trying to claim. It doesn't have significance on the political spectrum, but it does have significance on the psephological anorak geeky statistical facts spectrum. Anyway, it wasn't precisely 0.1% worse. It was only 0.0967% worse. |
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sirbenjamin
IFP
True fame is reading your name written in graffiti, but without the words 'is a wanker' after it.
Posts: 4,979 
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Post by sirbenjamin on Jun 19, 2021 11:51:50 GMT
I was very pleased with this result for three reasons. Firstly I was able to make a few quid as anybody who failed to see the value in the Lib Dem odds has no business betting. Secondly I was happy to see this bloody awful government given a kicking. Thirdly it was nice to see the Lib Dems remind everyone that they are the most dishonest bunch of shysters that you could ever be unfortunate enough to meet. Their campaign was a quite simply superb appeal to selfish nimbyism and the maintenance of wealth by the comfortable middle class. Next time any of these sods start talking about affordable housing or opportunities for the young we all know exactly how seriously to take them. Those fine words in the preamble of their constitution that they are so proud of mean nothing. There is no principle that they hold that they would not sell if the number of votes offered was high enough. They have re-established themselves as the ultimate opportunists in British politics. Agree with all three reasons. Especially the making of a few quid. But I still feel pissed off with the result for some reason! |
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,904
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Post by The Bishop on Jun 19, 2021 11:55:03 GMT
Its the tribal Tory that still resides within you  |
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neilm
Non-Aligned
Posts: 25,023
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Post by neilm on Jun 19, 2021 12:17:17 GMT
Their campaign was a quite simply superb appeal to selfish nimbyism and the maintenance of wealth by the comfortable middle class. Next time any of these sods start talking about affordable housing or opportunities for the young we all know exactly how seriously to take them. It will be very interesting to see if they raise their head above the parapet on this. Unfortunately, it'll be tied up with the usual 'aah, but we believe local people should make these decisions.' |
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Post by bigfatron on Jun 19, 2021 12:28:02 GMT
Their campaign was a quite simply superb appeal to selfish nimbyism and the maintenance of wealth by the comfortable middle class. Next time any of these sods start talking about affordable housing or opportunities for the young we all know exactly how seriously to take them. It will be very interesting to see if they raise their head above the parapet on this. Unfortunately, it'll be tied up with the usual 'aah, but we believe local people should make these decisions.' Or it could be that not everyone agrees that the Tory's simplistic approach to planning 'reform' will achieve the goal you describe - rather that it will allow developers to further expand their land-banks and profits, while failing to address the most pressing problems - land-banking and failing to build the types of property that are most needed. I could equally say that Tory lack of support for LVT is demonstrative of their complete lack of interest in solving the housing crisis that afflicts our young people. Just because you think relaxing controls on development is the answer to the lack of affordable housing, it doesn't mean everyone has to agree with you... |
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neilm
Non-Aligned
Posts: 25,023
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Post by neilm on Jun 19, 2021 12:30:29 GMT
It will be very interesting to see if they raise their head above the parapet on this. Unfortunately, it'll be tied up with the usual 'aah, but we believe local people should make these decisions.' Or it could be that not everyone agrees that the Tory's simplistic approach to planning 'reform' will achieve the goal you describe - rather that it will allow developers to further expand their land-banks and profits, while failing to address the most pressing problems - land-banking and failing to build the types of property that are most needed. I could equally say that Tory lack of support for LVT is demonstrative of their complete lack of interest in solving the housing crisis that afflicts our young people. Just because you think relaxing controls on development is the answer to the lack of affordable housing, it doesn't mean everyone has to agree with you... Can you point to where my post says any of that? |
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cogload
Lib Dem
I jumped in the river and what did I see...
Posts: 9,141
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Post by cogload on Jun 19, 2021 12:39:46 GMT
Relaxing controls on development has so far resulted in crap housing which will cost the taxpayer millions to put right in the future. Nah,make that billions.
Besides we are now approaching the point where development is slated for sections of the country which is running out of basic supplies - such as water. (Looks at parts of Essex/Suffolk). One issued which is at play in parts of Hertfordshire is chalk stream disappearance due to over extraction - what then the price 0f a developer profit extraction 4 bed detached with two big lawns and a double garage? And I could point to one LD run Borough which is enthusiastically allowing housing to be built in all parts (including on golf courses and the green belt) where it is the Tories who are running on a straight NIMBY ticket...
As has been pointed out - there are over 1m planning permissions for building outstanding in this country- local government is doing it's bit but why build now when rising margin expectations are essentially banked?
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Post by bigfatron on Jun 19, 2021 12:41:24 GMT
Or it could be that not everyone agrees that the Tory's simplistic approach to planning 'reform' will achieve the goal you describe - rather that it will allow developers to further expand their land-banks and profits, while failing to address the most pressing problems - land-banking and failing to build the types of property that are most needed. I could equally say that Tory lack of support for LVT is demonstrative of their complete lack of interest in solving the housing crisis that afflicts our young people. Just because you think relaxing controls on development is the answer to the lack of affordable housing, it doesn't mean everyone has to agree with you... Can you point to where my post says any of that? Ah, sorry, I thought I'd copied in Richard Allen's post, not yours! Apologies... |
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Post by middleenglander on Jun 19, 2021 12:45:07 GMT
I was very pleased with this result for three reasons. Firstly I was able to make a few quid as anybody who failed to see the value in the Lib Dem odds has no business betting. Secondly I was happy to see this bloody awful government given a kicking. Thirdly it was nice to see the Lib Dems remind everyone that they are the most dishonest bunch of shysters that you could ever be unfortunate enough to meet. Their campaign was a quite simply superb appeal to selfish nimbyism and the maintenance of wealth by the comfortable middle class. Next time any of these sods start talking about affordable housing or opportunities for the young we all know exactly how seriously to take them. Those fine words in the preamble of their constitution that they are so proud of mean nothing. There is no principle that they hold that they would not sell if the number of votes offered was high enough. They have re-established themselves as the ultimate opportunists in British politics. In the late 1970's we lived in Uppingham at the time they were constructing Rutland Water, which eventually "drowned" 1/6 of the County. There was much agitation led by you can guess which group of people. There was a particular violent skirmish just before we left about whether an Ice Cream van should be allowed / prevented in one of the designated car parks. Well, a few years later the agitation was to make it all a nature reserve. Forty years on it is marketed as offering everything from walking and cycling to fishing and watersports and includes a "fantastic" nature reserve managed by the local Wild Life Trust and is also home to the Rutland Osprey Project. I am not saying HS2 will have a similar outcome. I am opposed to HS2 as the original justification was to reduce travel times and later changed to increase capacity showing it was not properly thought through originally; even GOD now appears to have had a rethink. But it does demonstrate a continuing lack of strategic thinking combined with blatant hypocrisy amongst a certain section of the country's so called establishment. |
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Post by timrollpickering on Jun 19, 2021 12:54:27 GMT
I've been amused by the number of Tory commentators excoriating the Lib Dem candidate for being anti-HS2 given Lib Dem party policy being pro, but praising their candidate and the departed MP as 'principled' in their opposition to HS2 when the Tory govt is not only in favour, but voted it through. I was critical of Dame Cheryl's opposition to HS2 when she was alive and said it to her many years ago: I am not a fan of parties who support infrastructure but just not here. I am reminded of a tale of a party standing in a council area near an airport with just about every candidate's local leaflets pledging to get the flight path rerouted over another part of the district. If they had succeeded the flight path would have become a bizarre cat's cradle. |
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