|
|
Post by pragmaticidealist on Jun 18, 2021 13:35:24 GMT
Apparently she is in the running to be head of NATO, hence the speculation Surely the government should now be firmly saying "no" to any MP ho wants to resign/take another job in middle class London commuter belt seats? It's not really for them to say. |
|
right
Conservative
Posts: 18,791
|
Post by right on Jun 18, 2021 13:49:38 GMT
That was a symptom of tactical voting in the 1990s - Labour & Lib Dem voters happy to switch to each other in order to defeat Conservatives. The difference is that in 1993 the Conservative government was deeply unpopular across the country, whereas in 2021 it was a single-issue (HS2) result in a single constituency.For a start, Tory spin can't even agree on the "single issue" - according to many this morning it was NIMBYism (which the Tories have never ever indulged in, no sirree) It's a fair point on NIMBYism and the Tories, which is why I'm saying this result is not a particular comfort to the left - NIMBYism can benefit just about every point on the political spectrum. But opposition to planning reform and HS2 are perfectly consistent with a broader NIMBY campaign. |
|
right
Conservative
Posts: 18,791
|
Post by right on Jun 18, 2021 13:53:58 GMT
Good judgement by Davey to visit the constituency frequently. Means he can "own" the victory. Though starting to do so even before Gillan passed away (as revealed by Private Eye) was a bit naughty. The shamelessness of the Lib Dems does make me chuckle, bless their cotton socks |
|
|
|
Post by Pete Whitehead on Jun 18, 2021 13:56:08 GMT
Just talked to my friend in Prestwood. He said it's the first time anyone he voted for has actually been elected! Said that they were the only ones who bothered and that the Tories are usually so sure of victory that they do very little. I'm so sick of hearing this time after time (and witnessing it first hand as well). Those fucking idiots never learn |
|
johng
Labour
Posts: 4,850 
|
Post by johng on Jun 18, 2021 14:31:14 GMT
Just talked to my friend in Prestwood. He said it's the first time anyone he voted for has actually been elected! Said that they were the only ones who bothered and that the Tories are usually so sure of victory that they do very little. What about all of the reports of cabinet ministers/ senior Tories visiting the seat and canvassing, and people being tired of even Conservative literature through their doors?
Obviously it was pretty ineffective, but they were clearly doing a fair bit of campaigning.
|
|
|
|
Post by Merseymike on Jun 18, 2021 15:07:17 GMT
Just talked to my friend in Prestwood. He said it's the first time anyone he voted for has actually been elected! Said that they were the only ones who bothered and that the Tories are usually so sure of victory that they do very little. What about all of the reports of cabinet ministers/ senior Tories visiting the seat and canvassing, and people being tired of even Conservative literature through their doors? Obviously it was pretty ineffective, but they were clearly doing a fair bit of campaigning.
Maybe they didn't bother so much in Prestwood - He said he got more stuff from the LibDems. |
|
maxque
Non-Aligned
Posts: 9,312
Member is Online
|
Post by maxque on Jun 18, 2021 15:10:30 GMT
Apparently she is in the running to be head of NATO, hence the speculation Surely the government should now be firmly saying "no" to any MP ho wants to resign/take another job in middle class London commuter belt seats? Yeah, I'm sure Theresa May will do whatever Boris Johnson tells her... |
|
johng
Labour
Posts: 4,850
|
Post by johng on Jun 18, 2021 15:23:09 GMT
What about all of the reports of cabinet ministers/ senior Tories visiting the seat and canvassing, and people being tired of even Conservative literature through their doors? Obviously it was pretty ineffective, but they were clearly doing a fair bit of campaigning.
Maybe they didn't bother so much in Prestwood - He said he got more stuff from the LibDems. That's different from the Tories 'not even bothering'.
The Lib Dem by-election machine can be something to behold.
|
|
pl
Non-Aligned
Posts: 1,672
|
Post by pl on Jun 18, 2021 15:27:30 GMT
Surely the government should now be firmly saying "no" to any MP ho wants to resign/take another job in middle class London commuter belt seats? Yeah, I'm sure Theresa May will do whatever Boris Johnson tells her... Sigh. If an MP wants to go off and make lots of money in business, then no, there is nothing the whips can do. However, if they want to be NATO Secretary-General, Director-General of the WTO or something at the UN it requires UK government support or it is not going to happen. If they have a seat which would be at risk, the whips/party leadership can just say no. |
|
johng
Labour
Posts: 4,850
|
Post by johng on Jun 18, 2021 16:33:51 GMT
|
|
maxque
Non-Aligned
Posts: 9,312
Member is Online
|
Post by maxque on Jun 18, 2021 16:36:51 GMT
Yeah, I'm sure Theresa May will do whatever Boris Johnson tells her... Sigh. If an MP wants to go off and make lots of money in business, then no, there is nothing the whips can do. However, if they want to be NATO Secretary-General, Director-General of the WTO or something at the UN it requires UK government support or it is not going to happen. If they have a seat which would be at risk, the whips/party leadership can just say no. But the potential of getting an UK person in that position is also something the government considers. Having a close ally lead NATO may well be worth a by-election loss, given the size of the majority. |
|
|
|
Post by Merseymike on Jun 18, 2021 16:40:01 GMT
Maybe they didn't bother so much in Prestwood - He said he got more stuff from the LibDems. That's different from the Tories 'not even bothering'. The Lib Dem by-election machine can be something to behold.
He lives there, has done for 30 years, and was saying that more as an overall comment - that the seat is so safe that they haven't had to bother. |
|
J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 14,780
|
Post by J.G.Harston on Jun 18, 2021 16:47:38 GMT
Interesting point, but what would that actually mean in policy terms, given that Johnson's Tories are hardly small-state sound money advocates? Would you suggest they should have more emphasis on sound money but retain social liberalism and a more constructive approach to Europe? In what way do you see Labour and the Greens as fishing in the same pond? I think what wallington is saying is that the Lib Dems messaging is still very tailored towards urban 'progressives' but this is already a very crowded electoral market with both Labour and the Greens also trying to appeal to these voters. But considering Johnson's Tories are going all in on big spending, 'culture war messaging' to flip/retain traditionally Labour seats in the Midlands and the North, there is a big unfilled gap in the electoral market in the traditionally true-blue heartlands of the posh South. Thus in order to fill it the Lib Dems should go for as you say a strategy that puts 'more emphasis on sound money but retain social liberalism and a more constructive approach to Europe'. I'm in agreement that this strategy would yield the most electoral rewards for the Lib Dems but whether their membership/MPs who tend to be quite 'urban progressive' types allow them to go for it is another matter entirely. It also has to be acknowledged that there's a continuum - probably more of a split - between authoritatian progressives and liberal progressives. Liberal progressives are a natural core of our core values, we should be distancing ourselves from the authoritarian wing. The 2019 General Election showed voters being turned off by the party drinking the authoritarian progressive Kook-Aid. The authoritarian ends of both the Greens and Labour are fishing in that same pond - the "we're going to force you to do this because we have self-appointed ourselves to declare that it's for your own good, and you'll LIKE it!" |
|
ibfc
BJP
Posts: 1,967
Member is Online
|
Post by ibfc on Jun 18, 2021 16:51:58 GMT
Sigh. If an MP wants to go off and make lots of money in business, then no, there is nothing the whips can do. However, if they want to be NATO Secretary-General, Director-General of the WTO or something at the UN it requires UK government support or it is not going to happen. If they have a seat which would be at risk, the whips/party leadership can just say no. But the potential of getting an UK person in that position is also something the government considers. Having a close ally lead NATO may well be worth a by-election loss, given the size of the majority. Which is different from your original point that Theresa May will not listen to Boris Johnson. |
|
|
|
Post by therealriga on Jun 18, 2021 16:56:15 GMT
Though the concerns seem overblown to me, ok. If Astra was the only one available, maybe, but Moderna and Pfizer were widely available at no charge at the time that that story was published. There does seem to be an issue of a different and more conspiracy friendly information bubble. Much Russian media pushes all kinds of dubious conspiracy theories about the west but the side effect is that their own citizens then become less trusting as well. Russians are a strange mixture of patriotic and distrustful of the State. This story looks like an excuse for a holiday in San Marino as much as anything, but many Russians (including those in the Baltic States, and indeed in the UK) are pretty cross about the EU dragging feet over approving Sputnik, and therefore make a gesture. It is not as if people in the UK are immune from gesture politics, on all sides of the debate. No. It's not an excuse for a holiday in San Marino, a place few if any Russians have any interest in visiting. If the EU are slow in approving Sputnik it's because those behind Sputnik have constantly dragged their heels over supplying data requested to the EMA. Obviously there is a significant bit of geopolitik in play too, but given Navalny, Russian election hacking, Russian meddling in neighbouring states and its support for Belarus can you blame the EU for not fully trusting them? Meanwhile here's the BBC today on the issue: "The recent surge in Covid numbers in Russia may be an example of how careless talk costs lives. For months, Russians had been told by officials and Kremlin-controlled media how successful their country had been at battling the coronavirus, while the West was described as failing miserably. People in Europe, for instance, were said to be confused and angry because of endless lockdowns. There were reports on Russian TV of violence, rioting and vaccine shortages in the West. Time and again, Russian TV described Western vaccines as part of the problem, and claimed that they were causing more deaths. No evidence was offered to back up these claims. Meanwhile in Russia, state TV would say, things were getting better: restrictions were being lifted, shopping centres and museums were reopening, students were going back to universities, and vaccination was proceeding apace. Only little mention was made of how many Russians exactly had been vaccinated, or how many had died because of the virus - it had been all but defeated, supposedly. Now the rhetoric has changed. Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov on Friday blamed a record number of daily Covid infections in the capital, Moscow, on "nihilism", and state TV is alarmed and broadcasting pro-vaccination appeals. But given the past behaviour by both officials and the media, it should perhaps come as no surprise if many in Russia are complacent and distrustful of vaccines. " |
|
maxque
Non-Aligned
Posts: 9,312
Member is Online
|
Post by maxque on Jun 18, 2021 17:03:57 GMT
But the potential of getting an UK person in that position is also something the government considers. Having a close ally lead NATO may well be worth a by-election loss, given the size of the majority. Which is different from your original point that Theresa May will not listen to Boris Johnson. In case of resignation. If she is denied nomination on those reasons, she can just resign, so Boris has the double whammy. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2021 17:15:19 GMT
The Davey Lamp guided the Lib Dems out of the wilderness
|
|
|
|
Post by matureleft on Jun 18, 2021 17:17:19 GMT
Yup. This is the kind of thing that works pretty well in comfortable areas. It's (for a leaflet) reasonably accurate but is silent, of course, on what should be done to meet housing demand. I believe the government proposals are clumsy and remove key protective processes and the illusion (as it normally is) of local popular engagement. They are also one-sided - doing little to force developers with consents to get on with their plans. Nevertheless we do need to increase supply. |
|
|
|
Post by greenhert on Jun 18, 2021 17:20:50 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by gwynthegriff on Jun 18, 2021 17:53:43 GMT
For a start, Tory spin can't even agree on the "single issue" - according to many this morning it was NIMBYism (which the Tories have never ever indulged in, no sirree) It's a fair point on NIMBYism and the Tories, which is why I'm saying this result is not a particular comfort to the left - NIMBYism can benefit just about every point on the political spectrum. But opposition to planning reform and HS2 are perfectly consistent with a broader NIMBY campaign. Opposition to the current planning reforms is, however, not automatically linked to NIMBYism. The local Labour leader once accused me of "bananaism" (don't build anything, anywhere, anytime) which was curious as I couldn't think of a single application for housing in my ward that I'd ever objected to! I'm a strong believer in Plan-based development. It used to work pretty well. Governments constantly changing planning law and thus resetting the clock on Local Plan development is basically the problem. Put robust Local Plans in place! |
|
