carlton43
Reform Party
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Post by carlton43 on May 17, 2021 9:51:34 GMT
But 'My Dear', I don't care what you think or what you want or your daft precepts of intrinsic fairness. I never use the term mandate if I can avoid it because I don't feel it means much or has any potency either. And in most elections outside Merseyside, most MPs have more people who voted elsewhere than for them. It is only under ridiculous terminally bent rules that you can try to prove that your eventual AV 'winner' really did 'win' and really is 'popular'; but only after people are forced to give their second and third preference!!! For many like me, even the first vote is fairly negative in being for some twerp who just happensd to be less of a twerp that my second choice, and to be in a party I dislike less than all the other parties. And you have the counfounding cheek to suggest that such a system produce the 'fair' and the 'popular' choice?!! In fact it will produce the most bland and least offensive and most useless and colourless twerp by reductive elimination. In fact the person that at the outset most us did not want. And thus a government of useless nonentities merely because they were too bland to be eliminated! A recipe for the LDs to win which is the sole recommendation for it. Good morning "Bro" Don't know why you are going on about AV. I was discussing the lack of mandate of the government, not an individual. Your second paragraph is just a ridiculous evidence-free tirade. But it does have the merit of being the Woden's own truth of the situation. PR is a means of ensuring the least disliked get to win rather than the most liked or the best man. Thus it inherently benefits the bland and the useless and your party. |
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Post by andrew111 on May 17, 2021 10:02:30 GMT
Good morning "Bro" Don't know why you are going on about AV. I was discussing the lack of mandate of the government, not an individual. Your second paragraph is just a ridiculous evidence-free tirade. But it does have the merit of being the Woden's own truth of the situation. PR is a means of ensuring the least disliked get to win rather the most liked or the best man. Thus in inherently benefits the bland and the useless and your party. There is virtually no correlation between candidate quality and victory in FPTP general elections where people vote on national issues. The current Tory cabinet is living proof that our electoral and parliamentary system has no respect for quality. The only voting system that would improve that is STV where voters have the chance to prioritise candidates within their own Party and others. In fact there is good reason to think STV played a big role in peace in Northern Ireland as people like Paisley and Adams realised that voters were still loyal to their clan, but wanted peace, and would use their preferences accordingly. |
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carlton43
Reform Party
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Post by carlton43 on May 17, 2021 10:17:57 GMT
But it does have the merit of being the Woden's own truth of the situation. PR is a means of ensuring the least disliked get to win rather the most liked or the best man. Thus in inherently benefits the bland and the useless and your party. There is virtually no correlation between candidate quality and victory in FPTP general elections where people vote on national issues. The current Tory cabinet is living proof that our electoral and parliamentary system has no respect for quality. The only voting system that would improve that is STV where voters have the chance to prioritise candidates within their own Party and others. In fact there is good reason to think STV played a big role in peace in Northern Ireland as people like Paisley and Adams realised that voters were still loyal to their clan, but wanted peace, and would use their preferences accordingly. The system actually makes no difference to quality as you must know. However PR with a party list would be the worst of all possible systems and ensure the worst choices as well as restricted choice. Might I just add Gregory Opik Thorpe Bottomley Smith Huhne Lloyd George Kennedy |
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Post by andrew111 on May 17, 2021 10:27:33 GMT
There is virtually no correlation between candidate quality and victory in FPTP general elections where people vote on national issues. The current Tory cabinet is living proof that our electoral and parliamentary system has no respect for quality. The only voting system that would improve that is STV where voters have the chance to prioritise candidates within their own Party and others. In fact there is good reason to think STV played a big role in peace in Northern Ireland as people like Paisley and Adams realised that voters were still loyal to their clan, but wanted peace, and would use their preferences accordingly. The system actually makes no difference to quality as you must know. However PR with a party list would be the worst of all possible systems and ensure the worst choices as well as restricted choice. Might I just add Gregory Opik Thorpe Bottomley Smith Huhne Lloyd George Kennedy Well, finally we agree on something. Party list is the worst form of PR, leaving patronage in the hands of the Executive. It is very easy to make lists of politicians of all Parties who had personal failings, and in some cases were criminals. All elected under FPTP. Lloyd George and Kennedy were pretty good politicians despite their failings, and I would no more put them in such a list than I would Churchill. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2021 10:34:25 GMT
Party lists are a bit silly. We should be able to vote out people like Shaun Bailey.
I like the idea of preferential voting in individual constituencies as I believe it would encourage parties to be more inclusive and broaden their coalitions,
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carlton43
Reform Party
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Post by carlton43 on May 17, 2021 10:35:45 GMT
The system actually makes no difference to quality as you must know. However PR with a party list would be the worst of all possible systems and ensure the worst choices as well as restricted choice. Might I just add Gregory Opik Thorpe Bottomley Smith Huhne Lloyd George Kennedy Well, finally we agree on something. Party list is the worst form of PR, leaving patronage in the hands of the Executive. It is very easy to make lists of politicians of all Parties who had personal failings, and in some cases were criminals. All elected under FPTP. Lloyd George and Kennedy were pretty good politicians despite their failings, and I would no more put them in such a list than I would Churchill. Yes. As in so much, most of us have far more common ground than actual antagonism. But please don't tell the others as I have a reputation to live down! Yes, we can all make endless lists of the great and the bad from all parties. I contend that those self same persons would manipulate themselves to the same positions and behave in like manner under any system at all of any devizing. And, yes, many of them were famous and useless, popular and useless, venal and competent, mendacious and useful; or all those things at different times. I think that I would have liked both Bottomley and Lloyd George as much as I disliked Kennedy and Thorpe. |
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
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Post by The Bishop on May 17, 2021 11:00:11 GMT
The Breakthrough Party (no, I have never heard of them either) has announced this morning on Twitter they will stand a candidate in Chesham and Amersham, reaffirming my opinion there will be no pact and it will be a Con HOLD. Were you expecting this party which you'd never heard of to have endorsed the Lib Dems thus gifting them the thousands of far-left votes in this constituency and propelling them to victory? And there was never going to be a "pact" anyway, as made clear by the Greens announcement that they will be standing a candidate. |
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ricmk
Lib Dem
Posts: 2,628
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Post by ricmk on May 17, 2021 13:18:03 GMT
Hearing that Richard Tice likely to stand for Reform UK. On the surface of things, the Lib Dems will be pleased, but I have a feeling his moment may have passed.
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johnloony
Conservative
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Post by johnloony on May 17, 2021 13:40:01 GMT
The Breakthrough Party (no, I have never heard of them either) has announced this morning on Twitter they will stand a candidate in Chesham and Amersham, reaffirming my opinion there will be no pact and it will be a Con HOLD. You're confusing me. Which two (or more) parties were you expecting to (potentially) form a pact, and why would the existence of a Breakthrough Party candidate have any relevance to the whether-or-notness of the existence, or otherwise, of such a pact? Did you mean the Green Party and the Lib Dems? Why would either of those parties take any notice of whether there is a Breakthrough Party candidate? |
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myth11
Non-Aligned
too busy at work!
Posts: 2,841
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Post by myth11 on May 17, 2021 14:11:40 GMT
But it does have the merit of being the Woden's own truth of the situation. PR is a means of ensuring the least disliked get to win rather the most liked or the best man. Thus in inherently benefits the bland and the useless and your party. There is virtually no correlation between candidate quality and victory in FPTP general elections where people vote on national issues. The current Tory cabinet is living proof that our electoral and parliamentary system has no respect for quality. The only voting system that would improve that is STV where voters have the chance to prioritise candidates within their own Party and others. In fact there is good reason to think STV played a big role in peace in Northern Ireland as people like Paisley and Adams realised that voters were still loyal to their clan, but wanted peace, and would use their preferences accordingly. Michael Healy-Rae is quality of a sort ....... . STV is great at dividing people and the UK has many papered over cracks. |
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Post by london(ex)tory on May 17, 2021 15:20:33 GMT
Hearing that Richard Tice likely to stand for Reform UK. On the surface of things, the Lib Dems will be pleased, but I have a feeling his moment may have passed. I'd be interested to know where you're hearing that from... |
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ricmk
Lib Dem
Posts: 2,628
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Post by ricmk on May 17, 2021 15:42:15 GMT
Hearing that Richard Tice likely to stand for Reform UK. On the surface of things, the Lib Dems will be pleased, but I have a feeling his moment may have passed. I'd be interested to know where you're hearing that from... Just went to check my source, respected local journalist, and we seem to have a deleted tweet situation. Maybe one for the rumours and ramping thread then. |
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YL
Non-Aligned
Either Labour leaning or Lib Dem leaning but not sure which
Posts: 4,915
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Post by YL on May 18, 2021 6:51:35 GMT
The Labour candidate is Natasa Pantelic, councillor for Cippenham Meadows in Slough and a cabinet member there.
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Post by andrew111 on May 18, 2021 10:03:44 GMT
The Labour candidate is Natasa Pantelic, councillor for Cippenham Meadows in Slough and a cabinet member there. "Come friendly bombs and fall on Slough" |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on May 18, 2021 10:07:23 GMT
Senior Liberal Democrat advocates detonation of explosives in Home Counties town
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Merseymike
Independent
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Post by Merseymike on May 18, 2021 10:32:55 GMT
The Labour candidate is Natasa Pantelic, councillor for Cippenham Meadows in Slough and a cabinet member there. Also works for Chris Bryant MP as his parliamentary assistant |
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carlton43
Reform Party
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Post by carlton43 on May 18, 2021 10:40:10 GMT
The Labour candidate is Natasa Pantelic, councillor for Cippenham Meadows in Slough and a cabinet member there. "Come friendly bombs and fall on Slough" Come friendly bombs and fall on Slough If one considers this Pantelic be too rough The downside worry could make her cough And electors will have more causes though To shake a stick at and get them to the trough But surely good Slough burghers cannot be bought |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on May 18, 2021 10:47:59 GMT
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Post by finsobruce on May 18, 2021 10:51:01 GMT
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Post by finsobruce on May 18, 2021 11:16:32 GMT
"Come friendly bombs and fall on Slough" Come friendly bombs and fall on Slough If one considers this Pantelic be too rough The downside worry could make her cough And electors will have more causes though To shake a stick at and get them to the trough But surely good Slough burghers cannot be bought No more will I travel to Peterboruff or Luffboruff.... |
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