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Post by greenchristian on Mar 15, 2021 14:50:18 GMT
Though I do expect the greens and Lib Dem’s to merge in some form in the future, the death of both being very much exaggerated/hoped for by the two big boys in the room. This seems exceedingly unlikely. Whilst there's substantial overlap between the left wing of the Lib Dems and the right wing of the Greens a merged party would easily be a broader tent than either of the current big two parties. And the factions in both parties who were opposed to any such merger would almost certainly be more successful than the continuity Liberals and continuity SDP were back in the day. |
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sirbenjamin
IFP
True fame is reading your name written in graffiti, but without the words 'is a wanker' after it.
Posts: 4,979 
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Post by sirbenjamin on Mar 15, 2021 15:13:09 GMT
Though I do expect the greens and Lib Dem’s to merge in some form in the future, the death of both being very much exaggerated/hoped for by the two big boys in the room. This seems exceedingly unlikely. Whilst there's substantial overlap between the left wing of the Lib Dems and the right wing of the Greens a merged party would easily be a broader tent than either of the current big two parties. And the factions in both parties who were opposed to any such merger would almost certainly be more successful than the continuity Liberals and continuity SDP were back in the day.
And it would alienate considerable numbers of occasional/casual supporters on both sides.
These suggestions always seem to come from people who see politics as 'us vs them' or 'everyone vs Tories', without any room for nuance or subtlety. Or indeed respect for the longstanding traditions of the party to whom they've prostituted their vote. As if every single one of the 59% who didn't vote Conservative is on their side, no questions asked.
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Post by yellowperil on Mar 15, 2021 16:48:56 GMT
Though I do expect the greens and Lib Dem’s to merge in some form in the future, the death of both being very much exaggerated/hoped for by the two big boys in the room. This seems exceedingly unlikely. Whilst there's substantial overlap between the left wing of the Lib Dems and the right wing of the Greens a merged party would easily be a broader tent than either of the current big two parties. And the factions in both parties who were opposed to any such merger would almost certainly be more successful than the continuity Liberals and continuity SDP were back in the day. Sadly , I think that's all true, and I say that as someone who would personally have no problem with a merger on purely ideological grounds. I think te best that can be hoped for is a further agreement to stand down where that's appropriate. |
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Post by Daft H'a'porth A'peth A'pith on Mar 15, 2021 16:52:20 GMT
This seems exceedingly unlikely. Whilst there's substantial overlap between the left wing of the Lib Dems and the right wing of the Greens a merged party would easily be a broader tent than either of the current big two parties. And the factions in both parties who were opposed to any such merger would almost certainly be more successful than the continuity Liberals and continuity SDP were back in the day. Sadly , I think that's all true, and I say that as someone who would personally have no problem with a merger on purely ideological grounds. I think te best that can be hoped for is a further agreement to stand down where that's appropriate.
A merger of this kind would make more sense for the Liberal Democrats than the Greens I think, this is because the Liberal Democrats would gain identity through it, whilst the Greens would lose identity.
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sirbenjamin
IFP
True fame is reading your name written in graffiti, but without the words 'is a wanker' after it.
Posts: 4,979
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Post by sirbenjamin on Mar 16, 2021 15:51:09 GMT
This seems exceedingly unlikely. Whilst there's substantial overlap between the left wing of the Lib Dems and the right wing of the Greens a merged party would easily be a broader tent than either of the current big two parties. And the factions in both parties who were opposed to any such merger would almost certainly be more successful than the continuity Liberals and continuity SDP were back in the day. Sadly , I think that's all true, and I say that as someone who would personally have no problem with a merger on purely ideological grounds. I think te best that can be hoped for is a further agreement to stand down where that's appropriate.
These 'standing down' arrangements are exactly the sort of thing that puts me off. It just comes over as hubristic Toryphobia that takes voters for granted.
There are certain scenarios where people like me would conceivably consider voting LibDem, but pretty much since its formation the party seems to have gone out of its way to ensure these situations never arise!
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Post by John Chanin on Mar 16, 2021 16:54:06 GMT
I think that if we moved to sensible PR system (not impossible in my view) we would have a political environment very similar to that in Germany, with 6 parties representing reasonably clear sections of opinion, and most people having someone they are comfortable voting for. A democracy in which people vote for what they are in favour of, rather than the present situation where most people cast votes against what they don’t like, would be much healthier.
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sirbenjamin
IFP
True fame is reading your name written in graffiti, but without the words 'is a wanker' after it.
Posts: 4,979
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Post by sirbenjamin on Mar 16, 2021 17:35:59 GMT
I think that if we moved to sensible PR system (not impossible in my view) we would have a political environment very similar to that in Germany, with 6 parties representing reasonably clear sections of opinion, and most people having someone they are comfortable voting for. A democracy in which people vote for what they are in favour of, rather than the present situation where most people cast votes against what they don’t like, would be much healthier.
If only there were such a thing...
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Post by greenchristian on Mar 16, 2021 19:48:08 GMT
Sadly , I think that's all true, and I say that as someone who would personally have no problem with a merger on purely ideological grounds. I think te best that can be hoped for is a further agreement to stand down where that's appropriate.
These 'standing down' arrangements are exactly the sort of thing that puts me off. It just comes over as hubristic Toryphobia that takes voters for granted.
There are certain scenarios where people like me would conceivably consider voting LibDem, but pretty much since its formation the party seems to have gone out of its way to ensure these situations never arise!
For what it's worth, discussion of electoral pacts in the Green room here has been entirely against electoral pacts for Westminster elections (though a couple of comments have been extremely sceptical rather than adamantly opposed). There is more of a case for it in some local elections, especially where one or both parties wouldn't have been standing a full slate of candidates anyway. In some predominantly rural councils an electoral pact is actually the best way of ensuring that every council seat is actually contested (especially if Labour join the agreement as well).
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