Eastwood
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Post by Eastwood on Apr 3, 2021 17:35:20 GMT
This is always the crucial area for any Scottish map. I've made a few adjustments since yesterday and overall, I feel it could have been a lot worse.
 North West Renfrewshire - 73071. Paisley - 74915. I'm pleased to get rid of the current split of the town. (incidentally, there's something weird going on with the boundary between Paisley SE and Barrhead wards.) South East Renfrewshire - 71238 approx. I'm assuming a ward split will enable us to shift about 10000 electors - basically, the town of Barrhead itself - into the following seat. Glasgow South West - 74754 approx. The wards shown plus the town of Barrhead. Glasgow South East - 75033. Glasgow South - 72074.
Glasgow North West - 75746. Takes in Bearsden and Milngavie. Glasgow North - 71087. I think this is a better arrangement than my previous plan. Glasgow Central - 73346. Reshuffled from my previous plan to allow the creation of a seat of Glasgow N, but still a good solid city-centre seat. Glasgow East - 71807. More 'east' and less 'north' than my previous version. Kirkintilloch - 72172. I'm pleased to reunite this much carved-up town. Coatbridge and Baillieston - 75780. For the life of me I can't see how to get Coatbridge up to size without throwing in a Glasgow ward. Motherwell - 75994. Very pleased with this one. Airdrie - 76303. Upper Braes not a natural addition to this seat but it gets the numbers up. Cumbernauld - 75497 approx. I envisage that in addition to the wards shown the seat would take in Stenhousemuir from Carse ward. At a complete guess I've assumed 7000 electors, but there's a fair amount of play either way. Falkirk - 75515 approx. See comment on the previous seat.
Seems unlikely! Drumchapel and Bearsden is lynching territory. South East Renfrewshire is an abomination. Airdrie, Shotts and Falkirk is bonkers. You really aren’t taking into account the best places to cross authority boundaries at all. |
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Post by afleitch on Apr 3, 2021 17:58:21 GMT
 First stab at the South of Scotland. This takes a stab at respecting sub council divisions/old districts Dumfries and Galloway - 75213 Annandale, Eskdale and Roxburgh - 71520 Tweeddale, Ettrick and Berwickshire - 72543 East Lothian - 66490 plus at least 3234 Midlothian - 76279 less up to 6665 In order to get East Lothian into quota, you take Levenhall Links from Musselburgh ward. |
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Post by afleitch on Apr 3, 2021 20:11:58 GMT
My draft is coming together well. A few points worth noting as I've been doing this.
The 'Fife problem' can be solved by crossing into Falkirk; Carse, Kinnaird and Tryst Ward in Falkirk is linked by the Kincardine Bridge (effectively two bridges) to the West Fife and Kincardine Ward. That leaves Clackmannan and adjacent Perthshire wards to be 'Ochil and South Perthshire' and for Stirling to remain as one seat. Bear in mind Carse, Kinnaird and Tryst was part of the Clackmannan seat across the river up until 1992 despite there not being a bridge connection.
Speaking of bridges, if a North Ayrshire seat leaps into Inverclyde, creating an Inverclyde and West Renfrewshire seat next door, the Paisley wards, Johnstone, Erskine and Renfrew can be linked across the Erskine Bridge with the two Clydebank wards to create two seats. The allows Glasgow to be kept together and East Renfrewshire to remain one seat.
Argyll and Bute can borrow (most of) a ward, leaving a bit of a monster seat crossing from Dumbarton but skipping Clydebank into Bearsden and Milngavie. The rest of East Dumbartonshire and two North Lanarkshire wards can form one seat; effectively the old Strathkelvin District. The rest of Lanarkshire can be neatly carved up until you are left with the old Cumbernauld and Kilsyth District. This can cross into Falkirk, namely Denny and Banknock and Bonnybridge and Larbert (most of). Two West Lothian seats can be created from the council but taking in Bo'ness (again part of the old West Lothian County) with the rest of Falkirk Council, less everything else mentioned as one seat.
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Post by afleitch on Apr 3, 2021 20:41:10 GMT
So this is where I am at right now, names and electorates to follow. I think sticking to rigid council groupings is heavily restrictive. The biggest boundaries are really more cultural than geographic. Edinburgh and Glasgow can be subdivided. In the case of Glasgow adding anything outside of it in (particularly in the more genteel parts) is pitchfork bait. Here the lovely people of East Renfrewshire and Bearsden are kept out of the city. Argyll and Bute doesn't become a monster. The only crossing of the enormous Strathclyde cultural boundary happens at it's most obvious porous part. Fife is kept neat. Falkirk get's carved up simply because of both it's culture and geographic crossroads position. There are two 'estuary' seats, but they cross at defined bridges and transport links designed to bring the attached areas closer together decades ago.  |
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Post by minionofmidas on Apr 3, 2021 20:49:58 GMT
This looks promising but surely splitting Livingston right down the middle should be avoided?
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Eastwood
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Post by Eastwood on Apr 3, 2021 21:09:36 GMT
This looks promising but surely splitting Livingston right down the middle should be avoided? Agreed. I like this map but for West Lothian you've picked a solution that is convenient for avoiding a ward split but which doesn't work well on the ground. If you swap Broxburn/Uphall and Livingston North wards you need to add another 1300 electors to the North seat but actually there's an easy solution. East Livingston and East Calder can be split to remove Pumpherston & Uphall Station. They have a population of about 3000 so will have enough electors and despite being close to Livingston they very much view themselves as a separate area and have school catchments to Broxburn rather than Livingston. Also wonder if switching Dunbar and Penicuik is better. Leaves Midlothian intact as a single authority seat. |
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Post by afleitch on Apr 3, 2021 21:20:37 GMT
This looks promising but surely splitting Livingston right down the middle should be avoided? Agreed. I like this map but for West Lothian you've picked a solution that is convenient for avoiding a ward split but which doesn't work well on the ground. If you swap Broxburn/Uphall and Livingston North wards you need to add another 1300 electors to the North seat but actually there's an easy solution. East Livingston and East Calder can be split to remove Pumpherston & Uphall Station. They have a population of about 3000 so will have enough electors and despite being close to Livingston they very much view themselves as a separate area and have school catchments to Broxburn rather than Livingston. Also wonder if switching Dunbar and Penicuik is better. Leaves Midlothian intact as a single authority seat. This looks promising but surely splitting Livingston right down the middle should be avoided? Yes, West Lothian can be better divided, as can Fife to be fair with ward splits. I just kept it neat so I could move on! It's also possible to rejig as you say, Midlothian. What I chose was a sort of 'legacy' grouping; parts of seats that were detached between 1997 to 2005/2011 (at Holyrood) being detached for this split. I also wanted to bin DCT and in doing so unintentionally but rather helpfully for DCT defenders, created a SuperTory border seat. Lanarkshire is neat this way, no weird splits of East Kilbride or Hamilton (at last) or Motherwell or really any conurbation. |
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Post by lancastrian on Apr 3, 2021 21:38:21 GMT
Agreed. I like this map but for West Lothian you've picked a solution that is convenient for avoiding a ward split but which doesn't work well on the ground. If you swap Broxburn/Uphall and Livingston North wards you need to add another 1300 electors to the North seat but actually there's an easy solution. East Livingston and East Calder can be split to remove Pumpherston & Uphall Station. They have a population of about 3000 so will have enough electors and despite being close to Livingston they very much view themselves as a separate area and have school catchments to Broxburn rather than Livingston. Also wonder if switching Dunbar and Penicuik is better. Leaves Midlothian intact as a single authority seat. This looks promising but surely splitting Livingston right down the middle should be avoided? Yes, West Lothian can be better divided, as can Fife to be fair with ward splits. I just kept it neat so I could move on! It's also possible to rejig as you say, Midlothian. What I chose was a sort of 'legacy' grouping; parts of seats that were detached between 1997 to 2005/2011 (at Holyrood) being detached for this split. I also wanted to bin DCT and in doing so unintentionally but rather helpfully for DCT defenders, created a SuperTory border seat. Lanarkshire is neat this way, no weird splits of East Kilbride or Hamilton (at last) or Motherwell or really any conurbation. Requires another ward split, but I would swap the Dumfries town part of Lochar for Nithsdale. You can also get down to one crossing of the North/South Lanarkshire boundary by switching Wishaw with Clydesdale South and a bit of another split ward. I know it splits the Clydesdale wards, but most of the population of South looks to be along the M74 with good links to Hamilton and Larkhall. |
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Post by greenhert on Apr 3, 2021 22:32:51 GMT
I have finally managed to create a useful new constituency map of Scotland, after much trial and error.
Large(ish) Cities:
1. Aberdeen Outer (76,917). The City of Aberdeen wards of Airyhall/Broomhill/Gardee, Bridge of Don, Dyce/Buckburn/Danestone, Kingswells/Sheddocksley/Summerhill, Lower Deeside, and Kincorth/Nigg/Cove.
2. Aberdeen Central (76,538). The City of Aberdeen wards of George St/Harbour, Hazelhead/Queens Cross/Countesswells, Hilton/Woodside/Stocketshill, Midstocket/Rosemount, Northfield/Mastrick North, Tillyburne/Seaton/Old Aberdeen, and Torry/Ferryhill.
3. Edinburgh Almond (approx. 70,000). The City of Edinburgh wards of Almond, Drum/Brae/Gayle and Forth (part), plus the West Lothian ward of Broxburn, Uphall & Winchburgh.
4. Edinburgh Fountainbridge (approx. 70,000). The City of Edinburgh wards of Colinton/Fairmilehead, Fountainbridge/Craiglockhart, Morningside (part) and Sighthill/Gorgie.
5. Edinburgh Leith (approx. 70,500). The City of Edinburgh wards of Craigentinny/Duddingston, Leith, Leith Walk and Forth (part).
6. Edinburgh Central (approx. 72,000). The City of Edinburgh wards of City Centre, Corstorphine/Murrayfield, Inverleith and Morningside (part).
7. Edinburgh Southside (70,482). The City of Edinburgh wards of Liberton/Gilmerton, Portobello/Craigmillar, and Southside/Newington.
8. Glasgow Anniesland (74,368). The City of Glasgow wards of Drumchapel/Anniesland, Garscadden/Scotstounhill, Maryhill, and Victoria Park.
9. Glasgow Cathcart (approx. 75,000). The City of Glasgow wards of Langside, Linn, Newlands/Auldburn, and Pollokshields (part).
10. Glasgow Central (74,606). The City of Glasgow wards of Anderston/City/Yorkhill, Dennistoun, Hillhead, and Partick East/Kelvindale.
11. Glasgow Pollok (approx. 76,000). The City of Glasgow wards of Cardonald, Govan, Greater Pollok, and Pollokshields (part).
12. Glasgow Shettleston (73,885). The City of Glasgow wards of Baillieston, Calton, Shettleston, and Southside Central.
13. Glasgow Springburn (72,666). The City of Glasgow wards of Canal, East Centre, North East, and Springburn/Robroyston.
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Post by lancastrian on Apr 4, 2021 0:38:58 GMT
An attempt at the Highlands with all seats within quota and the size limit. Split wards are Wester Ross etc (aside from Strathpeffer the interior is largely empty so the line can be moved if necessary to make sure the northern seat is small enough) and Inverness South. Separating the Westhill area from Inverness isn't great, possibly this could be rectified by moving the rural area east of Loch Ness instead. i.imgur.com/a/6z3x8iXCaithness, Sutherland and Ross ~71900 Inverness, Skye and Lochaber ~72800 Elgin, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey ~75500 Banffshire and Buchan Coast 76966 Numbers for split wards based on polling stations at the 2019 election. This imgur.com/a/sl6enRK nearly works for 9 seats in an Argyll & Bute, Highland, Moray, Aberdeenshire and Aberdeen grouping whilst keeping the Inverness suburbs intact. The Inverness seat is somewhere in the region of 1400 electors too big. Beauly might fix it otherwise some tiny villages need to be squeezed out somewhere. Caithness etc as above Inverness & Skye ~78400 Argyll, Bute (& Lochaber?) 75891 Moray, Nairn, Badenoch & Strathspey 76697 Banffshire & Buchan 72837 Gordon 75497 Aberdeenshire W & Kincardine 76034 (includes Lower Deeside) Aberdeen N 70029 (Dyce etc, Bridge of Don, Hilton, Tillydrone, George St, Torry) Aberdeen S 71486 (Kincorth, Airyhall, Hazlehead, Midstocket, Northfield, Kingswells) Better splits of Aberdeen probably available. |
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Apr 4, 2021 9:20:07 GMT
I haven't settled on a set of LA groupings I'm happy with, but for Aberdeen I reckon this is the best non-split map:  Alternatively, splitting Midstocket/Rosemount along approximately the present line ought to fit for most arrangements and works reasonably well on the ground. |
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Post by islington on Apr 4, 2021 10:55:01 GMT
Right, and using EAL's Aberdeen plan, here's a possible approach to the rest of northern Scotland. At a quick check, I think all the seats are below 12000 sq km so the special rules governing extra-large seats don't come into play.
As mapped, everything is in range except the N Highland seat (whatever you want to call it) with 65239. So I suggest a split of Aird ward (I'm getting to be a dab hand at this) if we can find 4500 voters or a few more in the Beauly valley area. (I believe the BCS came up with a similar idea in one of the zombie reviews.) The Inverness-based seat (which incidentally includes the whole of Inverness itself) is at the top of the range with 77000 exactly so it has the voters to spare.
(Just as a matter of interest (because it wouldn't be legal), I note that if not for the ban on seats above 13000 sq km we could have a perfectly good non-split solution by, compared with the map, adding Black Isle and Dingwall to the Inverness seat in exchange for Wester Ross, Caol and Skye. Inverness - 70130; Highlands (or whatever you call it) - 72109.)
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Post by afleitch on Apr 4, 2021 12:10:14 GMT
 So yeah, getting there. I'm happy with the North East even if it results in more ward splits. The pattern takes inspiration from the Holyrood seats. Dundee is an odd choice; it's a city seat but much of the east/Broughty Ferry attached to an Angus seat. It makes for a neater division of Angus and subsequent seats. Rutherglen, Blantyre and Bothwell 71612 East Kilbride 75161 Hamilton, Larkhall and Wishaw 70252 Clydesdale and Fortissat 75273 Motherwell and Bellshill 71424 Monklands 76626 South Ayrshire 74719 East Ayrshire 74354 Central Ayrshire 75093 North Ayrshire and Arran 75465 East Renfrewshire 72959 Inverclyde and West Renfrewshire 75906 Paisley South and Johnstone 64898 4826 Paisley North and Clydebank 71444 -4826 Argyll and Bute 76645 -1046 West Renfrewshire 68678 1046 Strathkelvin 72395 Cumbernauld and Forth Valley 78383 -3518 Falkirk 66206 3518 Livingstone South and Almond Valley 77040 Livingstone North, Linlithgow, Bo'ness 70064 Stirling 70085 Clackmannan and South Perthshire 75721 1121 Perth and North Perthshire 78131 -1121 Dundee City 81015 -8912 Angus West 60812 8912 Angus East and Mearns 78792 -1730 Aberdeenshire West 79925 1730 Aberdeenshire East 74937 |
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Post by No Offence Alan on Apr 4, 2021 12:54:57 GMT
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Post by penwith on Apr 4, 2021 20:31:00 GMT
There's also a tempting Aberdeen/Aberdeenshire/Angus grouping, but that leaves a problem with Dundee: I think you'd either end up with some weird Dundee West & Random Bits of Perthshire seat or maybe even the Beautiful Constituency of the Silvery Tay. And you'd also get a Drumochter seat... "With its boundaries so lovely and gay". ’Twas in the month of April, and in the year 2021, That Scotland was redistributed by the Boundary Commission. O gerrymandered Constituency of the silvery Tay! Alas! I am very sorry to say Your boundaries are utterly shite Which will be regretted alright. With your thirteen central wards, which seem to my eye Not to belong in the same constituency. The Constituency of the Silvery Tay, which stands unequalled to be seen, Has instead been named by our prolix Commission "Central Dundee, Carnoustie, Monifieth, Broughty Ferry and the Magdalen Green". |
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J.G.Harston
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Post by J.G.Harston on Apr 4, 2021 20:33:45 GMT
"With its boundaries so lovely and gay". ’Twas in the month of April, and in the year 2021, That Scotland was redistributed by the Boundary Commission. O gerrymandered Constituency of the silvery Tay! Alas! I am very sorry to say Your boundaries are utterly shite Which will be regretted alright. With your thirteen central wards, which seem to my eye Not to belong in the same constituency. The Constituency of the Silvery Tay, which stands unequalled to be seen, Has instead been named by our prolix Commission "Central Dundee, Carnoustie, Monifieth, Broughty Ferry and the Magdalen Green".
Oh, those rhymes! I can hear the English language screaming as I read it. 
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Post by penwith on Apr 4, 2021 21:03:22 GMT
’Twas in the month of April, and in the year 2021, That Scotland was redistributed by the Boundary Commission. O gerrymandered Constituency of the silvery Tay! Alas! I am very sorry to say Your boundaries are utterly shite Which will be regretted alright. With your thirteen central wards, which seem to my eye Not to belong in the same constituency. The Constituency of the Silvery Tay, which stands unequalled to be seen, Has instead been named by our prolix Commission "Central Dundee, Carnoustie, Monifieth, Broughty Ferry and the Magdalen Green".
Oh, those rhymes! I can hear the English language screaming as I read it.
Straight from the pen of that great Dundonian poet, Rt. Hon. Jacob Rees-McGonagall. |
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iain
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Post by iain on Apr 4, 2021 21:42:48 GMT
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Post by No Offence Alan on Apr 5, 2021 8:42:00 GMT
Sorry, you've lost me there. |
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iain
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Post by iain on Apr 5, 2021 9:55:37 GMT
Sorry, you've lost me there. Its what is says when I click on your link. You need to change the sharing settings. |
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