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Post by michaelarden on Nov 20, 2022 20:12:22 GMT
"East Lothian & Lammermuirs". The Lammermuirs are in East Lothian, or at least the bits of them in this constituency are. I think this about the most unnecessary addition. It's been East Lothian for yonks, the hills are pretty much all in the constituency and the boundaries have hardly changed - so why do it? |
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YL
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Post by YL on Nov 20, 2022 20:45:08 GMT
"East Lothian & Lammermuirs". The Lammermuirs are in East Lothian, or at least the bits of them in this constituency are. I think this about the most unnecessary addition. It's been East Lothian for yonks, the hills are pretty much all in the constituency and the boundaries have hardly changed - so why do it? In the initial proposals they called it East Lothian Coast, on very similar boundaries, which was also rather silly as the inland bit of the county was in the constituency. I wonder whether they're trying to avoid the simple name East Lothian because it isn't coterminous with the council area or something like that. |
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Post by minionofmidas on Nov 20, 2022 21:19:36 GMT
I think this about the most unnecessary addition. It's been East Lothian for yonks, the hills are pretty much all in the constituency and the boundaries have hardly changed - so why do it? In the initial proposals they called it East Lothian Coast, on very similar boundaries, which was also rather silly as the inland bit of the county was in the constituency. I wonder whether they're trying to avoid the simple name East Lothian because it isn't coterminous with the council area or something like that. And the Scottish Parliament constituency of the same name w/ different boundaries again. This is quite plainly the reason. Clearly the solution is to understand "E Lothian" as referring to the Scottish constituency, ie excluding Musselburgh, and name the Westminster seat "East Lothian & Musselburgh East". Much to the confusion of anybody who assumes that Musselburgh is in East Lothian anyways. Can I just say at this point how annoying I find the trio of x,y & Clydesdale, z & North Clydesdale, and w & Clyde Valley? Reasonable as the seats are? Surely the latter at least could be Hamilton & Lanark. |
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Post by michaelarden on Nov 21, 2022 9:09:48 GMT
In the initial proposals they called it East Lothian Coast, on very similar boundaries, which was also rather silly as the inland bit of the county was in the constituency. I wonder whether they're trying to avoid the simple name East Lothian because it isn't coterminous with the council area or something like that. And the Scottish Parliament constituency of the same name w/ different boundaries again. This is quite plainly the reason. Clearly the solution is to understand "E Lothian" as referring to the Scottish constituency, ie excluding Musselburgh, and name the Westminster seat "East Lothian & Musselburgh East". Much to the confusion of anybody who assumes that Musselburgh is in East Lothian anyways. Can I just say at this point how annoying I find the trio of x,y & Clydesdale, z & North Clydesdale, and w & Clyde Valley? Reasonable as the seats are? Surely the latter at least could be Hamilton & Lanark. Musselburgh has on a number of occasions been included in Edinburgh East not East Lothian. And when it has East Lothian has remained as such, or as Berwick and East Lothian when it inlcuded Berwickshire. The Lammermuirs bit is entirely uneccesary. |
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Post by minionofmidas on Nov 21, 2022 15:21:36 GMT
And the Scottish Parliament constituency of the same name w/ different boundaries again. This is quite plainly the reason. Clearly the solution is to understand "E Lothian" as referring to the Scottish constituency, ie excluding Musselburgh, and name the Westminster seat "East Lothian & Musselburgh East". Much to the confusion of anybody who assumes that Musselburgh is in East Lothian anyways. Can I just say at this point how annoying I find the trio of x,y & Clydesdale, z & North Clydesdale, and w & Clyde Valley? Reasonable as the seats are? Surely the latter at least could be Hamilton & Lanark. Musselburgh has on a number of occasions been included in Edinburgh East not East Lothian. And when it has East Lothian has remained as such, or as Berwick and East Lothian when it inlcuded Berwickshire. The Lammermuirs bit is entirely uneccesary. Of course it's unnecessary - it was a tongue-in-cheek solution to what only the Scottish Boundary Commission sees as a problem, though a more logical one than what they came up with. Another would be to name one of these seats "Haddingtonshire"... |
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Nov 21, 2022 15:51:19 GMT
Lothian East?
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jamie
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Post by jamie on Nov 21, 2022 15:52:20 GMT
East Lothian Without?
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YL
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Post by YL on Nov 28, 2022 17:54:27 GMT
so without checking the road map I know that fewer can only mean zero. And I have driven across it and had lunch at Sheriffmuir Sorry, that was poorly worded on my part. What I meant, and should have said, was that the Clacks seat *as proposed* has fewer roads across the Ochils from the Perthshire part of the constituency to the Clacks part (none) than do the Lomonds. There is one road through the Ochils (the Glendevon one), but the Clacks end of it would be in the redrawn Dunfermline seat, not the Clacks one. Having had a closer look at the Commission's proposals, they look a bit better in Fife than I had first thought. North East Fife is a good seat. While I don't like the splits to Kinross or Clacks there is some logic to them. The Fife wards east of the M90 (excluding the NE Fife ones) don't have quite enough electors to make the minimum for two seats, and crossing the M90 would split Dunfermline between seats, hence making up the numbers by including a bit of Kinross-shire. And it's only Clacks East that has been added to Dunfermline (I'd originally thought it was more), which means that Alloa isn't split. The problem is the Clacks/Denny/bit of Perthshire seat. But there is a solution of a sort, which involves splitting Stirling: Transfer Bannockburn ward (minus Bannockburn village itself) from Stirling to Clacks. Transfer the bit of Perthshire around Blackford from Clacks to Stirling, along with Strathearn ward (Crieff). I don't have all the numbers to hand but I think that it should be within range. You don't even need to split Stirling, as it happens: if you simply take the same chunk of Strathallan ward the BCS have included in Clacks & Forth Valley and transfer it to Stirling both seats remain in quota. I don't think it's brilliant but it's surely better than the Commission's proposal. There's also enough flexibility to move a few hundred electors in Strathallan ward to get a better split than the Commission's. |
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YL
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Post by YL on Nov 30, 2022 10:27:26 GMT
OK, I made a submission with the suggestion of including bits of Strathallan ward with Stirling rather than in Clacks & Forth Valley. Doing that also allows the whole of Carse, Kinnaird & Tryst ward to be in Clacks & Forth Valley rather than a small bit being in Falkirk, which looks like a cleaner boundary, so I suggested that too.
I doubt that's really the best solution, but it is relatively straightforward and doesn't disturb the Fife seats.
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piperdave
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Post by piperdave on Dec 1, 2022 21:54:27 GMT
Musselburgh has on a number of occasions been included in Edinburgh East not East Lothian. And when it has East Lothian has remained as such, or as Berwick and East Lothian when it inlcuded Berwickshire. The Lammermuirs bit is entirely uneccesary. Of course it's unnecessary - it was a tongue-in-cheek solution to what only the Scottish Boundary Commission sees as a problem, though a more logical one than what they came up with. Another would be to name one of these seats "Haddingtonshire"... I haven't suggested it to the Commission thus far, so I'll be interested to see what you all make of it. Constituency names for Westminster should all be based on towns and counties, while names for the Scottish Parliament seats should be based on natural geography. So Haddington for one and Lammermuir for the other would be an example. We've already got a difference in Livingston and Almond Valley. I haven't attempted to do a full naming set but maybe I'll try after the Westminster boundaries are finalised and see how good/bad, easy/difficult it is as a solution to get the differentiation the Commission seem to be after. |
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Post by minionofmidas on Dec 1, 2022 21:58:22 GMT
I would suggest that the pragmatic functional understood way to tell people that the East Lothian seat doesn't contain all of East Lothian is to call the other seat Edina E & Musselburgh W.
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Post by dizz on Dec 1, 2022 22:51:32 GMT
So the BCS have taken to naming constituencies partly after hills. I'm not in principle against this: Scotland has lots of hills, and they're often local landmarks which people can identify with. But... "East Lothian & Lammermuirs". The Lammermuirs are in East Lothian, or at least the bits of them in this constituency are. Kudos to any party that stands a candidate going by the name of Lucia for this seat. |
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Post by aidanthomson on Dec 2, 2022 16:44:53 GMT
Sorry, that was poorly worded on my part. What I meant, and should have said, was that the Clacks seat *as proposed* has fewer roads across the Ochils from the Perthshire part of the constituency to the Clacks part (none) than do the Lomonds. There is one road through the Ochils (the Glendevon one), but the Clacks end of it would be in the redrawn Dunfermline seat, not the Clacks one. Having had a closer look at the Commission's proposals, they look a bit better in Fife than I had first thought. North East Fife is a good seat. While I don't like the splits to Kinross or Clacks there is some logic to them. The Fife wards east of the M90 (excluding the NE Fife ones) don't have quite enough electors to make the minimum for two seats, and crossing the M90 would split Dunfermline between seats, hence making up the numbers by including a bit of Kinross-shire. And it's only Clacks East that has been added to Dunfermline (I'd originally thought it was more), which means that Alloa isn't split. The problem is the Clacks/Denny/bit of Perthshire seat. But there is a solution of a sort, which involves splitting Stirling: Transfer Bannockburn ward (minus Bannockburn village itself) from Stirling to Clacks. Transfer the bit of Perthshire around Blackford from Clacks to Stirling, along with Strathearn ward (Crieff). I don't have all the numbers to hand but I think that it should be within range. You don't even need to split Stirling, as it happens: if you simply take the same chunk of Strathallan ward the BCS have included in Clacks & Forth Valley and transfer it to Stirling both seats remain in quota. I don't think it's brilliant but it's surely better than the Commission's proposal. There's also enough flexibility to move a few hundred electors in Strathallan ward to get a better split than the Commission's. Well spotted; I missed that as a solution. On grounds of geographical shape, I prefer my own solution, but yours has the advantage of avoiding splitting Stirling, and splitting one ward fewer than the Commission (I split one more), so it's probably got more chance of being adopted. I hope the Commission consider it; it's certainly far better than the Commission's which, I now realise, would have included Gleneagles and Denny in the one constituency! |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2022 8:13:52 GMT
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Post by batman on Dec 7, 2022 9:56:10 GMT
So the BCS have taken to naming constituencies partly after hills. I'm not in principle against this: Scotland has lots of hills, and they're often local landmarks which people can identify with. But... "East Lothian & Lammermuirs". The Lammermuirs are in East Lothian, or at least the bits of them in this constituency are. Kudos to any party that stands a candidate going by the name of Lucia for this seat. maybe if she has successfully applied to rejoin Labour Luciana Berger could do it |
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iain
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Post by iain on Jun 28, 2023 10:51:28 GMT
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Post by ClevelandYorks on Jun 28, 2023 13:03:37 GMT
The Scottish proposals wouldn't be so bad if they didn't have such ridiculous names, particularly in the North East.
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xenon
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Post by xenon on Jun 28, 2023 13:19:45 GMT
Aberdeen (2 seats) – names and boundaries unchanged
Northern Scotland (7 seats)
* "Aberdeenshire Central" renamed to "Gordon and Buchan"
* "Nairn, Strathspey and Moray West" renamed to "Moray West, Nairn and Strathspey"
* "Inverness-shire and Wester Ross" renamed to "Inverness, Skye and West Ross-shire"
Boundaries changed in Balloch and Smithton (both go into the Inverness constituency), in Elgin, in Wester Ross, and in Strichen.
Eastern Scotland (13 seats) –
* "Clackmannanshire and Forth Valley" renamed to "Alloa and Grangemouth"
* "North Tayside" renamed to "Angus and Perthshire Glens"
* "Dundee East and Arbroath" renamed to "Arbroath and Broughty Ferry"
* "Perth and Loch Leven" renamed to "Perth and Kinross-shire"
* "Stirling" renamed to "Stirling and Strathallan"
* "Dunfermline and East Ochils" renamed to "Dunfermline and Dollar"
* "Dundee West" renamed to "Dundee Central"
* "Glenrothes" renamed to "Glenrothes and West Fife"
* "Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath" renamed to "Cowdenbeath and Kirkcaldy"
Boundaries changed in Scotlandswell (into Perth and Kinross-shire), in Kingseat (into Cowdenbeath and Kirkcaldy) in Auchterarder (into Stirling), in Denny, and in Grangemouth.
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Post by finsobruce on Jun 28, 2023 13:24:25 GMT
Aberdeen (2 seats) – names and boundaries unchanged Northern Scotland (7 seats) * "Aberdeenshire Central" renamed to " Gordon and Buchan"* "Nairn, Strathspey and Moray West" renamed to "Moray West, Nairn and Strathspey" * "Inverness-shire and Wester Ross" renamed to "Inverness, Skye and West Ross-shire" Boundaries changed in Balloch and Smithton (both go into the Inverness constituency), in Elgin, in Wester Ross and in Strichen. Nice to see that Martin has some recognition, although the General is a controversial choice. |
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islington
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Post by islington on Jun 28, 2023 13:26:57 GMT
Also, 'Clackmannanshire & Forth Valley', in the revised proposals, has transmogrified into 'Alloa and Grangemouth' and has lost its bits of Perth & Kinross. It isn't really my part of the world but I'm guessing this must be an improvement.
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