Foggy
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Yn Ennill Yma
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Post by Foggy on Jan 11, 2021 7:15:06 GMT
Thanks for compiling the figures in that post. I can't get this area to work for 7 seats at all on current boundaries. I doubt any replacement divisions for Wiltshire UA will be more helpful either. Will we be allowed split wards in Wiltshire? Otherwise we get some very odd constituencies or some wards will have to move. Obviously, this will have knock on effects Outside of Swindon, I don't even consider them wards. Whatever you want to call them, I think splitting some might end up being the only option. I can just about get the Dorset UA area to work for 4 seats all to itself on current boundaries, but a whole new set might also throw a spanner in the works there. So, perhaps a 'Warminster & Shaftesbury' proposal from the previous (never enacted) review will have to be revived after all? |
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YL
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Either Labour leaning or Lib Dem leaning but not sure which
Posts: 4,915
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Post by YL on Jan 11, 2021 8:40:20 GMT
Thanks for compiling the figures in that post. I can't get this area to work for 7 seats at all on current boundaries. I doubt any replacement divisions for Wiltshire UA will be more helpful either. Will we be allowed split wards in Wiltshire? Otherwise we get some very odd constituencies or some wards will have to move. Obviously, this will have knock on effects My guess is that the Commission will consider split wards, but you might have to make quite a strong case that the alternatives are unacceptable; we'll have to see. As East Anglian Lefty says there are solutions on the existing boundaries; I found one, which had the same re-arrangement towards the south of the county he describes. I'm not sure it's worth trying harder until we get the numbers for the new boundaries. You could consider pairing with Bath & North East Somerset, which also can in principle be treated on its own but in practice is awkward because of its ward map. (I see plans above have grouped it with the rest of Somerset, though.) |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jan 11, 2021 9:25:17 GMT
Will we be allowed split wards in Wiltshire? Otherwise we get some very odd constituencies or some wards will have to move. Obviously, this will have knock on effects Outside of Swindon, I don't even consider them wards. Whatever you want to call them, I think splitting some might end up being the only option. I can just about get the Dorset UA area to work for 4 seats all to itself on current boundaries, but a whole new set might also throw a spanner in the works there. So, perhaps a 'Warminster & Shaftesbury' proposal from the previous (never enacted) review will have to be revived after all? It wouldn't extend as far as Warminster - only one or at most two wards need to be moved from Wiltshire to a Dorset seat. I've come up with a scheme which just removes Mere and that frees up enough voters to make Wiltshire work |
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Jan 11, 2021 9:25:22 GMT
As YL says, not worth thinking about too much as the wards are going to change, but here's one of the options I found for Wiltshire:  Swindon West 76921 Swindon East 75932 East Wiltshire 75268 North Wiltshire 76066 West Wiltshire 76689 South West Wiltshire 75615 Salisbury 77023 I found an alternative solution that kept Chippenham out of N Wiltshire but I can't remember what that was offhand. I don't think I found a solution keeping Devizes in the eponymous seat. |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jan 11, 2021 9:28:36 GMT
As YL says, not worth thinking about too much as the wards are going to change, but here's one of the options I found for Wiltshire: Swindon West 76921 Swindon East 75932 Marlborough 75268 Chippenham 76066 Devizes 76689 Westbury 75615 Salisbury 77023 I found an alternative solution that kept Chippenham out of N Wiltshire but I can't remember what that was offhand. I don't think I found a solution keeping Devizes in the eponymous seat. Devizes still has an eponymous seat - it just covers a very different area.. |
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Jan 11, 2021 9:32:02 GMT
Fair. I just didn't think the map is worth taking seriously enough to take any effort with the names.
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 39,009
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Post by The Bishop on Jan 11, 2021 10:42:48 GMT
1983. Gloucester also included Hardwicke and Upton St Leonards within its boundaries from 1983-97 even though neither of those villages can be considered suburbs of Gloucester in any fashion! Yes. I wasn't sure because the BBC/ITN Guide to the New Paliamentary constituencies showed fewer than 4,000 voters transferred from Stroud to Gloucester which didn't seem like enough to include Quedgely (I thought it might just be Hardwicke and Upton St Leonards). I hadn't appreciated how unpopulated that area was in the late 70s - Quedgley only had an electorate of 1,400 in 1976 (from when I think those figures are taken) - it was nearly 8,000 by the time it moved in 1991 and it's getting on for 15,000 now For the constituency to include Hardwicke and not Quedgeley would have been.......unusual. (less so until the 19th century of course, when exclaves were quite common) |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jan 11, 2021 10:46:06 GMT
Yes. I wasn't sure because the BBC/ITN Guide to the New Paliamentary constituencies showed fewer than 4,000 voters transferred from Stroud to Gloucester which didn't seem like enough to include Quedgely (I thought it might just be Hardwicke and Upton St Leonards). I hadn't appreciated how unpopulated that area was in the late 70s - Quedgley only had an electorate of 1,400 in 1976 (from when I think those figures are taken) - it was nearly 8,000 by the time it moved in 1991 and it's getting on for 15,000 now For the constituency to include Hardwicke and not Quedgeley would have been.......unusual. (less so until the 19th century of course, when exclaves were quite common) Yes my theory was that possibly Quedgeley was already included before 1983 and that Hardwicke was added then |
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 39,009
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Post by The Bishop on Jan 11, 2021 10:49:58 GMT
Yeah, that makes more sense  The claim made upthread that Upton St Leonards isn't remotely part of Gloucester is slightly strange tbh. Its literally on one side of the M5 with the city on the other! |
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WJ
Non-Aligned
Posts: 3,279
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Post by WJ on Jan 14, 2021 16:36:15 GMT
Here's a more radical alternative to Cornwall. I think I find it a bit more aesthetically pleasing than the salami slicing along the peninsula that we've seen previously and I think there's a good case for keeping the mixing of northern and southern coastal communities to a minimum. Labour might not be happy though as their strength may now be gerrymandered into three different seats. But possibly Falmouth might be ok for them in a good year?
Camborne and St Ives (73,526)
Covering IoS, Penzance, St Ives, Hayle and Camborne
St. Mary's; St Buryan; Gulval and Heamoor; Lelant and Carbis Bay; Ludgvan; Marazion and Perranuthnoe; Newlyn and Mousehole; Penzance Central; Penzance East; Penzance Promenade; St Ives East; St Ives West; St Just in Penwith; Hayle North; Hayle South; Gwinear-Gwithian and St Erth; Camborne Treswithian; Camborne Pendarves; Camborne Treslothan; Camborne Trelowarren; Camborne Roskear; Pool and Tehidy
Falmouth (71,459)
Covering Falmouth, Penryn, Helston and the Lizard
Mullion and Grade-Ruan; St Keverne and Meneage; Porthleven and Helston West; Helston South; Helston North; Breage; Germoe and Sithney; Crowan and Wendron; Constantine, Mawnan and Budock; Falmouth Arwenack; Falmouth Smithick; Falmouth Penwerris; Falmouth Trescobeas; Falmouth Boslowick; Penryn East and Mylor; Penryn West; Feock and Playing Place; Mabe, Perranarworthal and St Gluvias; Lanner and Stithians
Truro and Redruth (72,461)
As it says on the tin, plus Perranporth and St Agnes.
Redruth Central; Redruth South; Redruth North; Illogan; Four Lanes; Carharrack; Gwennap and St Day; Mount Hawke and Portreath; St Agnes; Threemilestone and Gloweth; Truro Trehaverne; Truro Tregolls; Truro Boscawen; Truro Redannick; Chacewater; Kenwyn and Baldhu; Perranporth; Ladock; St Clement and St Erme; Newlyn and Goonhavern
Bodmin and St. Austell (73,589)
Fairly tighly drawn around the two towns, plus Par and Lostwithiel.
Mevagissey; St Mewan; St Austell Bethel; St Blazey; Fowey and Tywardreath; St Austell Bay; Par and St Blazey Gate; St Austell Poltair; St Austell Gover; Mount Charles; Bugle; Penwithick and Boscoppa; St Stephen-In-Branell; Lostwithiel; Roche; Lanivet and Blisland; Bodmin St Mary's; Bodmin St Leonard; Bodmin St Petroc; Probus, Tregony and Grampound; Roseland
Liskeard (73,382)
The SE corner of the county: Looe, Liskeard, Saltash and Callington.
Looe West, Lansallos and Lanteglos; Looe Eas; Trelawney; Menheniot; St Germans and Landulph; Saltash East; Saltash West; Saltash South; Saltash North; Torpoint West; Torpoint East; Rame Peninsula; St Dominick, Harrowbarrow and Kelly Bray; Gunnislake and Calstock; Callington; Lynher; Liskeard North; Liskeard East; Liskeard West and Dobwalls; St Cleer; Stokeclimsland; Altarnun
Launceston and Newquay (73,937)
The north coast stretching between Newquay and Bude.
St Mawgan and Colan; Newquay Treviglas; Newquay Treloggan; Newquay Pentire; Newquay Central; Newquay Tretherras; St Columb Major; St Issey and St Tudy; Wadebridge East; Wadebridge West; St Minver and St Endellion; Padstow; Grenville and Stratton; Poundstock; Bude; Launceston North and North Petherwin; Launceston Central; Launceston South; Camelford; Tintagel; St Teath and St Breward
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Jan 14, 2021 17:36:06 GMT
I think it's an interesting idea, but splitting Camborne from Redruth is not a great idea. Here's a version of the same concept which keeps Camborne with Redruth and Truro with Falmouth, whilst keeping the Lizard in St Ives:  St Ives 73187 Camborne & Redruth 70420 Truro & Falmouth 73105 St Austell & Bodmin 74318 North Cornwall 70605 SE Cornwall 76719 |
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Post by greenhert on Jan 14, 2021 17:37:53 GMT
With thankfully no prospect of a "Devonwall" seat this time there is no need for a radical reorganisation of Cornish constituencies.
The solution is simple:
1. Add Constantine, Mawnan & Budock ward to St Ives.
2. Add St Agnes ward to Camborne & Redruth and remove Constantine, Mawnan & Budock ward from it.
3. Add St Enoder ward to Truro & Falmouth and remove St Agnes ward from it.
4. Remove St Enoder ward from St Austell & Newquay.
5. Leave both North Cornwall and South East Cornwall unchanged (apart from adjustment to new ward boundaries).
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YL
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Either Labour leaning or Lib Dem leaning but not sure which
Posts: 4,915
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Post by YL on Jan 14, 2021 17:39:24 GMT
I think it's an interesting idea, but splitting Camborne from Redruth is not a great idea. Here's a version of the same concept which keeps Camborne with Redruth and Truro with Falmouth, whilst keeping the Lizard in St Ives: St Ives 73187 Camborne & Redruth 70420 Truro & Falmouth 73105 St Austell & Bodmin 74318 North Cornwall 70605 SE Cornwall 76719 I'm sure the concepts will still work, but note that Cornwall is one of the areas we don't have the new ward figures for yet. I had a map at one point which was basically minimal change but swapping Bodmin and Newquay, which the above map reminded me of. |
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Post by 🏴☠️ Neath West 🏴☠️ on Jan 14, 2021 18:14:35 GMT
Bristol, Gloucestershire, and Wiltshire. The Minety trick works (for now):  1 Bristol South 74856 Yes 2 Bristol East (unchanged) 74385 Yes 3 Bristol Central 69919 Yes 4 Bristol North West 77028 Yes 5 Bristol North and Filton 76236 Yes 6 Kingswood 71199 Yes 7 Yate 70327 Yes 8 Thornbury 70512 Yes 9 Forest of Dean 75133 Yes 10 The Cotswolds 75152 Yes 11 Stroud 73010 Yes 12 Gloucester 75488 Yes 13 Tewkesbury 76906 Yes 14 Cheltenham 75810 Yes 15 Swindon East 76477 Yes 16 Swindon West 76376 Yes 17 North Wiltshire 75472 Yes 18 Chippenham 74853 Yes 19 Devizes 76101 Yes 20 South West Wiltshire 74904 Yes 21 Salisbury 75413 Yes |
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WJ
Non-Aligned
Posts: 3,279
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Post by WJ on Jan 14, 2021 22:24:01 GMT
I think it's an interesting idea, but splitting Camborne from Redruth is not a great idea. Here's a version of the same concept which keeps Camborne with Redruth and Truro with Falmouth, whilst keeping the Lizard in St Ives: St Ives 73187 Camborne & Redruth 70420 Truro & Falmouth 73105 St Austell & Bodmin 74318 North Cornwall 70605 SE Cornwall 76719 I think Camborne and Redruth are different enough to withstand being split, but I realise tradition favours them together and your version also works well. Though I think it makes more sense for Hayle and Helston to sit with Penzance/St Ives and the two Lizard wards to sit with Falmouth and Truro. To do that, you then need to make a Camborne, Redruth and Newquay seat; St Austell and all the territory west to Truro; Bodmin, Launceston and the rest of the North Coast and finally Liskeard and the SE. |
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Post by evergreenadam on Jan 14, 2021 23:02:33 GMT
Bristol, Gloucestershire, and Wiltshire. The Minety trick works (for now): 1 Bristol South 74856 Yes 2 Bristol East (unchanged) 74385 Yes 3 Bristol Central 69919 Yes 4 Bristol North West 77028 Yes 5 Bristol North and Filton 76236 Yes 6 Kingswood 71199 Yes 7 Yate 70327 Yes 8 Thornbury 70512 Yes 9 Forest of Dean 75133 Yes 10 The Cotswolds 75152 Yes 11 Stroud 73010 Yes 12 Gloucester 75488 Yes 13 Tewkesbury 76906 Yes 14 Cheltenham 75810 Yes 15 Swindon East 76477 Yes 16 Swindon West 76376 Yes 17 North Wiltshire 75472 Yes 18 Chippenham 74853 Yes 19 Devizes 76101 Yes 20 South West Wiltshire 74904 Yes 21 Salisbury 75413 Yes There are a lot of big seats there, it won’t take much further growth for some to breach the quota in future reviews. I can see another seat being required before long. |
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Post by 🏴☠️ Neath West 🏴☠️ on Jan 14, 2021 23:12:41 GMT
There are a lot of big seats there, it won’t take much further growth for some to breach the quota in future reviews. I can see another seat being required before long. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof. |
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Jan 15, 2021 8:31:28 GMT
I think it's an interesting idea, but splitting Camborne from Redruth is not a great idea. Here's a version of the same concept which keeps Camborne with Redruth and Truro with Falmouth, whilst keeping the Lizard in St Ives: St Ives 73187 Camborne & Redruth 70420 Truro & Falmouth 73105 St Austell & Bodmin 74318 North Cornwall 70605 SE Cornwall 76719 I think Camborne and Redruth are different enough to withstand being split, but I realise tradition favours them together and your version also works well. Though I think it makes more sense for Hayle and Helston to sit with Penzance/St Ives and the two Lizard wards to sit with Falmouth and Truro. To do that, you then need to make a Camborne, Redruth and Newquay seat; St Austell and all the territory west to Truro; Bodmin, Launceston and the rest of the North Coast and finally Liskeard and the SE. We'll have to agree to disagree on Camborne and Redruth, but if you're agreeing Helston should go with Penzance, what's the justification for the Lizard being in a different seat? It's much easier to get from the Lizard to Helston than it is to get from the Lizard to Falmouth. |
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Post by Arthur Figgis on Jan 15, 2021 8:51:23 GMT
I think Camborne and Redruth are different enough to withstand being split, but I realise tradition favours them together and your version also works well. Though I think it makes more sense for Hayle and Helston to sit with Penzance/St Ives and the two Lizard wards to sit with Falmouth and Truro. To do that, you then need to make a Camborne, Redruth and Newquay seat; St Austell and all the territory west to Truro; Bodmin, Launceston and the rest of the North Coast and finally Liskeard and the SE. We'll have to agree to disagree on Camborne and Redruth, but if you're agreeing Helston should go with Penzance, what's the justification for the Lizard being in a different seat? It's much easier to get from the Lizard to Helston than it is to get from the Lizard to Falmouth. Particularly when your satnav tries to take you on the Helford ferry, as happened to me in about 2008... |
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WJ
Non-Aligned
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Post by WJ on Jan 15, 2021 9:35:16 GMT
I think Camborne and Redruth are different enough to withstand being split, but I realise tradition favours them together and your version also works well. Though I think it makes more sense for Hayle and Helston to sit with Penzance/St Ives and the two Lizard wards to sit with Falmouth and Truro. To do that, you then need to make a Camborne, Redruth and Newquay seat; St Austell and all the territory west to Truro; Bodmin, Launceston and the rest of the North Coast and finally Liskeard and the SE. We'll have to agree to disagree on Camborne and Redruth, but if you're agreeing Helston should go with Penzance, what's the justification for the Lizard being in a different seat? It's much easier to get from the Lizard to Helston than it is to get from the Lizard to Falmouth. Easier maybe, but after living in the area, it feels like the Lizard is more in Falmouth's sphere of influence than St Ives/Penzance. Which is why I had Falmouth, Helston and the Lizard in one constituency together. Looking forward to seeing the new electorates in any case! |
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