J.G.Harston
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Post by J.G.Harston on Mar 13, 2022 2:03:34 GMT
The last presentation I saw was objecting to adding Tickhill into Doncaster Central as a result of dismembering the 3-seat Doncaster area in order to parcel out spare bits to neighbouring seats. Have there been any submissions that propose a workable model that keeps the 3-seat Doncaster? I've had a look through this thread and not seen any.
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YL
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Post by YL on Mar 13, 2022 8:56:41 GMT
The last presentation I saw was objecting to adding Tickhill into Doncaster Central as a result of dismembering the 3-seat Doncaster area in order to parcel out spare bits to neighbouring seats. Have there been any submissions that propose a workable model that keeps the 3-seat Doncaster? I've had a look through this thread and not seen any. The Preston spreadsheet (reference 79391) has a 3 seat Doncaster, but it's not very close to the existing: Doncaster West: Adwick le Street & Carcroft, Conisbrough, Edlington & Warmsworth, Mexborough, Norton & Askern, Roman Ridge, Sprotbrough Doncaster Central: Armthorpe, Bentley, Bessacarr, Edenthorpe & Kirk Sandall, Stainforth & Barnby Dun, Town, Wheatley Hills & Intake Doncaster East (an odd choice of name if you look at a map): Balby South, Finningley, Hatfield, Hexthorpe & Balby North, Rossington & Bawtry, Thorne & Moorends, Tickhill & Wadworth NB you can swap the two Balby wards with Armthorpe, which would at least unify the core of the town and make "East" more east. The problem is that you then have to do something else with the Isle of Axholme. 79391 puts it together with the Goole area and the southern part of Selby district (from Selby town southwards, basically) in a "Selby, Goole & Axholme" seat; the rest of Selby district, except for Tadcaster, goes into a "Howden" constituency also containing the north bank East Riding wards as far east as Willerby & Kirk Ella. |
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YL
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Post by YL on Mar 13, 2022 9:07:14 GMT
I've just finished watching the recordings. It looks like the vast majority of presentations were regarding Leeds, with the implication that people were happy with the rest of Yorkshire. That makes it important that if people do agree with existing recommendations, they write to say so, to mitigate any impact if the Commission needs to nibble at propsed seats to take account of proposals that are objected to. That must just be the Leeds hearings, though: there are hearings in Hull and Northallerton in the coming week. Were there not many comments about Batley & Hipperholme and the rest of Calderdale? There are plenty of written representations from that area, so the obvious explanation would just be that it's just that people from there are less likely than people from Leeds to go to a hearing in Leeds. After all, I might well have been able to find time to briefly drop in if there had been one in Sheffield, but I can't reasonably go to Leeds (or Hull or Northallerton) on a work day. Did you get the impression that people were supporting the Labour counterproposal in Leeds? |
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J.G.Harston
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Post by J.G.Harston on Mar 13, 2022 12:17:20 GMT
That must just be the Leeds hearings, though: there are hearings in Hull and Northallerton in the coming week. Were there not many comments about Batley & Hipperholme and the rest of Calderdale? There are plenty of written representations from that area, so the obvious explanation would just be that it's just that people from there are less likely than people from Leeds to go to a hearing in Leeds. After all, I might well have been able to find time to briefly drop in if there had been one in Sheffield, but I can't reasonably go to Leeds (or Hull or Northallerton) on a work day. Did you get the impression that people were supporting the Labour counterproposal in Leeds? I didn't pay attention enough to note whose proposals were being supporting, other than noticing a Conservative representative arguing that the M1 should not be used as a boundary because the ward boundary doesn't follow the motorway but straggles through the middle of a housing estate a few yards west. But that is entirely down to Leeds City Council not getting off their arse since 2004. The ward boundary is there because it follows a fossilised parish boundary, Leeds has had 18 years since the last ward review to do a Community Governance Review and tidy up that parish boundary and consequently tidy the ward boundary. With their own powers, not needing any recourse to external bodies.
Most of the representations were: * do not split Harehills ward, keep all of it in Leeds East * some modifications of Leeds North West * stuff about Bradford * A very good presentation on a ward swap for Morley - but from two adjacent seats with no assessment of the knock-on effects * North-East Leeds isn't "Leeds", and is ok to treat as a rural seat with not-Leeds * three presentations supporting Brightside & Hillsborough - odd that nobody mentioned the Sheffield model in general that allows this Brightside
After the Hull & Harrogate Northallerton meetings I'll be writing in to support the Sheffield model, and Scarborough & Whitby, and will address anything I've found that argues against them. If I can find a workable minimum change 3xDoncaster I may write to recommend that.
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YL
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Post by YL on Mar 13, 2022 20:18:53 GMT
I've watched quite a bit of it now. Not all, as the Harehills comments were getting quite repetitive.
My impression is that most of the people who were talking about Leeds who weren't openly partisan were making comments which were consistent with the Labour counterproposal (especially the keep Harehills in Leeds East bit, but also in the north and west of the city). So my guess is that that counterproposal has quite a good chance of being accepted.
Probably the area which was runner up to Harehills for number of comments was Great Horton ward in Bradford; most of the speakers from there want a single polling district moved into Bradford South rather than the BCE's rather awkward ward swap. However, there were a handful of speakers supporting the BCE, so while I think the don't-move-Great-Horton side have the upper hand they may not get their way. They do all agree on one thing, though: I don't think anyone has proposed crossing the Bradford city boundary, but if anyone does pitchforks await.
There were a handful of speakers on Batley & Hipperholme; unsurprisingly they didn't like it.
There was very little on South Yorkshire. I don't think there's any real danger of the Sheffield proposals being changed TBH; there's no significant local opposition, all four political parties support them -- Labour with reservations but they don't give an alternative -- and I don't think there are any issues elsewhere which are likely to have knock on effects this far. That doesn't mean it isn't worth putting in comments supporting them. There was also very little on West Yorkshire outside Leeds and Bradford; yes I suspect the location of the hearing is significant. (North Yorkshire and the East Riding will have their own hearings of course.)
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J.G.Harston
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Post by J.G.Harston on Apr 4, 2022 0:48:24 GMT
BCE-94766 for Yorkshire submitted.
Recommended that public support for BCE's proposals for Sheffield and for Scarborough & Whitby are grounds to implement them.
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Post by islington on Jul 21, 2022 18:49:00 GMT
Actually this works ... (Too late now, obviously)  Goole and Howden - 71378. Hull West and Haltemprice - 76257.
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Jul 22, 2022 8:38:25 GMT
I'm not sure that's an improvement on the initial proposals. Hessle fades fairly naturally into Hull, whereas Cottingham's links with Hull all go through the north of the city and it's not particularly well connected to the riverside.
Surely it's simpler just to take the initial proposals then swap North Ferriby for Willerby and Kirk Ella?
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Post by islington on Jul 22, 2022 11:21:29 GMT
I'm not sure that's an improvement on the initial proposals. Hessle fades fairly naturally into Hull, whereas Cottingham's links with Hull all go through the north of the city and it's not particularly well connected to the riverside. Surely it's simpler just to take the initial proposals then swap North Ferriby for Willerby and Kirk Ella? You're probably right.
It's just that I hit on the arrangement by accident as I was playing with BA. It worked on numbers and I didn't think I'd seen it before, so I thought I'd post it on here. And while Cottingham's links with west Hull might not be great, I bet they're better than its links with Goole.
It's all too late anyway.
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iain
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Post by iain on Nov 7, 2022 22:37:19 GMT
Anyone worked out what the link is here?
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YL
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Post by YL on Nov 7, 2022 22:53:47 GMT
Anyone worked out what the link is here? No, I've tried various things and they didn't work. |
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YL
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Post by YL on Nov 8, 2022 0:09:18 GMT
Well, Batley & Hipperholme has gone, with Calderdale now split between two seats, with Ryburn the split ward. I don't like the version of Calder Valley this produces but TBH it isn't really much worse than the existing seat and I do think not crossing the Kirklees/Calderdale boundary is the right answer. In Kirklees they've gone for the Spen Valley and Dewsbury & Batley option.
Hull looks much better, with three seats covering the city plus Haltemprice.
The "South Humber" name has rightly become Brigg & Immingham. The only changes in South Yorkshire are Rother Vale being in Rotherham rather than Rother Valley, which is a bit confusing as far as names are concerned but isn't ridiculous, while Doncaster Central keeps its name rather than becoming Doncaster Town.
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YL
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Post by YL on Nov 8, 2022 0:11:00 GMT
Another bit of confusing nomenclature: "Wakefield West & Denby Dale" does not contain the ward of Wakefield West.
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J.G.Harston
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Post by J.G.Harston on Nov 8, 2022 0:15:33 GMT
Now that it's up...
Hull and East Yorkshire looks a lot tidier. North Yorkshire has a minor tweek at Harrogate.
There's a lot of low-level tweeks in West Yorkshire, I don't know enough of the ground detail to know what effects this has. Rotherham adds a bit over the M1 Sheffield is unchanged - keeping a line slicing through a school and a dozen houses which I pointed out could easily be changed.
I think my comment will be: everything's fine except move that **** polling district boundary at Intake.
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YL
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Post by YL on Nov 8, 2022 0:16:28 GMT
In Bradford they've split Little Horton to get the minimum change option as widely suggested.
Leeds East keeps Harehills (inevitable given the fuss, I suspect) and instead gives part of Temple Newsam ward to Leeds "Central", which in turn gives Little London & Woodhouse to "Headingley", with the result that a substantial part of Leeds city centre is not in a constituency with "Leeds" in the name. Middleton Park also stays in Central rather than moving to Morley, which instead takes Farnley & Wortley; finally Armley ends up in the Pudsey seat instead of Headingley as in the initial proposals.
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Nov 8, 2022 0:20:37 GMT
In Bradford they've split Little Horton to get the minimum change option as widely suggested. Leeds East keeps Harehills (inevitable given the fuss, I suspect) and instead gives part of Temple Newsam ward to Leeds "Central", which in turn gives Little London & Woodhouse to "Headingley", with the result that a substantial part of Leeds city centre is not in a constituency with "Leeds" in the name. Middleton Park also stays in Central rather than moving to Morley, which instead takes Farnley & Wortley; finally Armley ends up in the Pudsey seat instead of Headingley as in the initial proposals. Its really stupid that that seat doesn't have a Leeds prefix, even if that were not the case about the city centre. I hope this will get revised - especially when there is a Leeds NW which contains relatively little of Leeds 'proper' |
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Post by bjornhattan on Nov 8, 2022 0:20:40 GMT
Well, Batley & Hipperholme has gone, with Calderdale now split between two seats, with Ryburn the split ward. I don't like the version of Calder Valley this produces but TBH it isn't really much worse than the existing seat and I do think not crossing the Kirklees/Calderdale boundary is the right answer. In Kirklees they've gone for the Spen Valley and Dewsbury & Batley option. Hull looks much better, with three seats covering the city plus Haltemprice. The "South Humber" name has rightly become Brigg & Immingham. The only changes in South Yorkshire are Rother Vale being in Rotherham rather than Rother Valley, which is a bit confusing as far as names are concerned but isn't ridiculous, while Doncaster Central keeps its name rather than becoming Doncaster Town.Did they change that one because of Doncaster's new city status? |
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J.G.Harston
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Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
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Post by J.G.Harston on Nov 8, 2022 0:20:41 GMT
And I'm sure I'd tried this URL, but's it's here:
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YL
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Post by YL on Nov 8, 2022 0:27:35 GMT
Well, Batley & Hipperholme has gone, with Calderdale now split between two seats, with Ryburn the split ward. I don't like the version of Calder Valley this produces but TBH it isn't really much worse than the existing seat and I do think not crossing the Kirklees/Calderdale boundary is the right answer. In Kirklees they've gone for the Spen Valley and Dewsbury & Batley option. Hull looks much better, with three seats covering the city plus Haltemprice. The "South Humber" name has rightly become Brigg & Immingham. The only changes in South Yorkshire are Rother Vale being in Rotherham rather than Rother Valley, which is a bit confusing as far as names are concerned but isn't ridiculous, while Doncaster Central keeps its name rather than becoming Doncaster Town.Did they change that one because of Doncaster's new city status? Yes. |
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Post by ClevelandYorks on Nov 8, 2022 0:37:39 GMT
Those Thirsk & Malton and Wetherby & Easingwold seats are just awful. But not much that can done within the constraints.
UNLESS we were to ditch the artificial West/North Yorkshire boundary to create Skipton & Ilkley and Ripon & Wetherby seats, then give the leftover bits around Ripon to Thirsk & Malton...
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