YL
Non-Aligned
Either Labour leaning or Lib Dem leaning but not sure which
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Post by YL on Jan 5, 2021 13:08:40 GMT
54 seats
County and Met Borough quotas (I think)
North Yorkshire (county council area) 6.45
York 2.01
East Riding (unitary) 3.60
Hull 2.43
(East Riding including Hull 6.03)
Bradford 4.92
Calderdale 2.05
Kirklees 4.26
Leeds 7.83
Wakefield 3.47
(West Yorks 22.54)
Barnsley 2.47
Doncaster 2.98
Rotherham 2.66
Sheffield 5.61
(South Yorks 13.73)
N Lincs 1.71
NE Lincs 1.58
(South Humber 3.29)
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Post by evergreenadam on Jan 5, 2021 13:16:57 GMT
54 seats County and Met Borough quotas (I think) North Yorkshire (county council area) 6.45 York 2.01 East Riding (unitary) 3.60 Hull 2.43 (East Riding including Hull 6.03) Bradford 4.92 Calderdale 2.05 Kirklees 4.26 Leeds 7.83 Wakefield 3.47 (West Yorks 22.54) Barnsley 2.47 Doncaster 2.98 Rotherham 2.66 Sheffield 5.61 (South Yorks 13.73) N Lincs 1.71 NE Lincs 1.58 (South Humber 3.29) That doesn’t look like an easy fit for whole seats with a 5% tolerance. |
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YL
Non-Aligned
Either Labour leaning or Lib Dem leaning but not sure which
Posts: 4,915
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Post by YL on Jan 5, 2021 13:21:52 GMT
I'm tempted to try
York (2 seats)
East Riding inc. Hull (6 seats)
Bradford (5 seats)
Calderdale (2 seats)
Sheffield and Barnsley (8 seats)
Rotherham, Doncaster, N Lincs, NE Lincs (9 seats)
Leeds (8 seats)
Kirklees, Wakefield, N Yorks (14 seats)
... but that last one might not work very well, and perhaps either Leeds or York should be thrown in with it.
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
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Post by J.G.Harston on Jan 5, 2021 13:23:39 GMT
54 seats County and Met Borough quotas (I think) North Yorkshire (county council area) 6.45 York 2.01 East Riding (unitary) 3.60 Hull 2.43 (East Riding including Hull 6.03) Bradford 4.92 Calderdale 2.05 Kirklees 4.26 Leeds 7.83 Wakefield 3.47 (West Yorks 22.54) Barnsley 2.47 Doncaster 2.98 Rotherham 2.66 Sheffield 5.61 (South Yorks 13.73) N Lincs 1.71 NE Lincs 1.58 (South Humber 3.29) That's screaming for a cross-border North/West Yorkshire seat. Skipton & Keithley? Harrogate & Whetherby? The South Yorkshire numbers make it perfect to add Axholme in with Donny to get 14 seats and leave the rest of South Humberside to form 3 seats. We then have East Riding & Hull for 6 seats, York for 2 seats, rest of North Yorkshire for 6 seats and rest of West Yorkshire for 22 seats. |
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
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Post by J.G.Harston on Jan 5, 2021 13:49:51 GMT
Posted in the other thread: the existing Scarborough & Whitby is 1.006 so, being on the edge of the map, can be left as it is.
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ilerda
Conservative
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Post by ilerda on Jan 5, 2021 13:56:10 GMT
Sheffield and Barnsley making 8 seats is a great relief. Will allow for a pattern fairly similar to what exists now.
Will be interesting to see if BCE would prefer to keep seats within these council groupings and therefore split wards, or not split wards but do more council boundary crossings.
For example, a Sheffield SE seat would either need to take part of Manor Castle ward or a ward from Rotherham to reach quota. I know which I favour but what will BCE prefer?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2021 14:05:35 GMT
54 seats County and Met Borough quotas (I think) North Yorkshire (county council area) 6.45 York 2.01 East Riding (unitary) 3.60 Hull 2.43 (East Riding including Hull 6.03) Bradford 4.92 Calderdale 2.05 Kirklees 4.26 Leeds 7.83 Wakefield 3.47 (West Yorks 22.54) Barnsley 2.47 Doncaster 2.98 Rotherham 2.66 Sheffield 5.61 (South Yorks 13.73) N Lincs 1.71 NE Lincs 1.58 (South Humber 3.29) That's screaming for a cross-border North/West Yorkshire seat. Skipton & Keithley? Harrogate & Whetherby? The South Yorkshire numbers make it perfect to add Axholme in with Donny to get 14 seats and leave the rest of South Humberside to form 3 seats. We then have East Riding & Hull for 6 seats, York for 2 seats, rest of North Yorkshire for 6 seats and rest of West Yorkshire for 22 seats. Skipton and Keighley wouldn't be a bad one actually, although the local Labour Part might have a fit |
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Post by Merseymike on Jan 5, 2021 14:11:33 GMT
That's screaming for a cross-border North/West Yorkshire seat. Skipton & Keithley? Harrogate & Whetherby? The South Yorkshire numbers make it perfect to add Axholme in with Donny to get 14 seats and leave the rest of South Humberside to form 3 seats. We then have East Riding & Hull for 6 seats, York for 2 seats, rest of North Yorkshire for 6 seats and rest of West Yorkshire for 22 seats. Skipton and Keighley wouldn't be a bad one actually, although the local Labour Part might have a fit Not necessarily - swap Ilkley and Skipton, and it would be better for Labour overall. Ilkley is actually more Conservative than Skipton. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2021 14:13:25 GMT
Skipton and Keighley wouldn't be a bad one actually, although the local Labour Part might have a fit Not necessarily - swap Ilkley and Skipton, and it would be better for Labour overall. Ilkley is actually more Conservative than Skipton. Although the countryside in between could be a problem, as you'd have to add South Craven. Although you can also remove the Worth Valley which will help Labour |
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
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Post by J.G.Harston on Jan 5, 2021 14:18:38 GMT
Skipton and Keighley wouldn't be a bad one actually, although the local Labour Part might have a fit Not necessarily - swap Ilkley and Skipton, and it would be better for Labour overall. Ilkley is actually more Conservative than Skipton. But Ilkley is in West Yorkshire, and we need a West/North Yorkshire cross-border seat. You need to swap Skipton with another NorthYorks area. I'm minded to think the Wetherby area might be better for a cross-border seat. I'll have to wait until I get home, if I start spreading maps out here at work people will notice.  |
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Post by bjornhattan on Jan 5, 2021 14:19:50 GMT
Not necessarily - swap Ilkley and Skipton, and it would be better for Labour overall. Ilkley is actually more Conservative than Skipton. Although the countryside in between could be a problem, as you'd have to add South Craven. Although you can also remove the Worth Valley which will help Labour South Craven isn't monolithically Conservative though - Cowling has elected Labour councillors in the past. I suspect the boundary won't be crossed here though - ideally your cross boundary seat should be about half and half N Yorks and W Yorks (so the quotas for rest of those counties become 6 and 22 respectively). The three Keighley wards combined with Craven ward have too many electors. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2021 14:20:23 GMT
Not necessarily - swap Ilkley and Skipton, and it would be better for Labour overall. Ilkley is actually more Conservative than Skipton. But Ilkley is in West Yorkshire, and we need a West/North Yorkshire cross-border seat. You need to swap Skipton with another NorthYorks area. I'm minded to think the Wetherby area might be better for a cross-border seat. I'll have to wait until I get home, if I start spreading maps out here at work people will notice. I think Mike meant swapping the two into/out of Keighley, ie Keighley loses Ilkley and gains Skipton. I like the Skipton/Keighley mix because they're nearby, have good transport links and seem to share a few services etc. in common |
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edgbaston
Labour
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Post by edgbaston on Jan 5, 2021 14:20:56 GMT
Sheffield and Barnsley making 8 seats is a great relief. Will allow for a pattern fairly similar to what exists now. Will be interesting to see if BCE would prefer to keep seats within these council groupings and therefore split wards, or not split wards but do more council boundary crossings. For example, a Sheffield SE seat would either need to take part of Manor Castle ward or a ward from Rotherham to reach quota. I know which I favour but what will BCE prefer? I think we already know that clowns will do as clowns will do |
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YL
Non-Aligned
Either Labour leaning or Lib Dem leaning but not sure which
Posts: 4,915
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Post by YL on Jan 5, 2021 14:24:14 GMT
Sheffield and Barnsley making 8 seats is a great relief. Will allow for a pattern fairly similar to what exists now. Will be interesting to see if BCE would prefer to keep seats within these council groupings and therefore split wards, or not split wards but do more council boundary crossings. For example, a Sheffield SE seat would either need to take part of Manor Castle ward or a ward from Rotherham to reach quota. I know which I favour but what will BCE prefer? The simplest (but not necessarily the best) option in Sheffield, if one ward split were to be deemed acceptable, would be to note that after ward realignment all of Hallam, Brightside & Hillsborough and Penistone & Stocksbridge are within range, Central is too big by a whole ward and SE and Heeley are a little too small, so just removing Central's excess ward (Manor Castle) and splitting it between the two undersize seats will work. A Sheffield-Barnsley pairing requires the two Dearne wards to come into a Barnsley seat. That can be done without changing P & S: move them both into Barnsley East (which will be renamed Barnsley South), transfer Cudworth and North East to Barnsley Central (to be renamed Barnsley North) and shift Kingstone from Central/North to East/South. It might be better to put all of Manor Castle in Heeley and split Richmond instead, avoiding the mess that the last ward review made of Handsworth becoming a parliamentary boundary. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2021 14:26:00 GMT
Although the countryside in between could be a problem, as you'd have to add South Craven. Although you can also remove the Worth Valley which will help Labour South Craven isn't monolithically Conservative though - Cowling has elected Labour councillors in the past. I suspect the boundary won't be crossed here though - ideally your cross boundary seat should be about half and half N Yorks and W Yorks (so the quotas for rest of those counties become 6 and 22 respectively). The three Keighley wards combined with Craven ward have too many electors. I've sort of made it work for the rest of N Yorks, admittedly on the 2019 numbers. It involves creating a Craven, Richmond & Nidderdale seat, pairing Ripon with Northallerton and the southern part of Hambleton, and adding NE Hambleton to Thirsk. |
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Post by bjornhattan on Jan 5, 2021 14:32:30 GMT
South Craven isn't monolithically Conservative though - Cowling has elected Labour councillors in the past. I suspect the boundary won't be crossed here though - ideally your cross boundary seat should be about half and half N Yorks and W Yorks (so the quotas for rest of those counties become 6 and 22 respectively). The three Keighley wards combined with Craven ward have too many electors. I've sort of made it work for the rest of N Yorks, admittedly on the 2019 numbers. It involves creating a Craven, Richmond & Nidderdale seat, pairing Ripon with Northallerton and the southern part of Hambleton, and adding NE Hambleton to Thirsk. I think that highlights a big flaw with Skipton/Keighley. If Settle isn't paired with Skipton then it has to go with Nidderdale and/or Richmond, and both of those are pretty awful pairings separated by huge swathes of wilderness. There may be some merit in having effectively a "Yorkshire Dales" constituency but I don't think the community ties or communication links are good enough. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2021 14:35:33 GMT
I've sort of made it work for the rest of N Yorks, admittedly on the 2019 numbers. It involves creating a Craven, Richmond & Nidderdale seat, pairing Ripon with Northallerton and the southern part of Hambleton, and adding NE Hambleton to Thirsk. I think that highlights a big flaw with Skipton/Keighley. If Settle isn't paired with Skipton then it has to go with Nidderdale and/or Richmond, and both of those are pretty awful pairings separated by huge swathes of wilderness. There may be some merit in having effectively a "Yorkshire Dales" constituency but I don't think the community ties or communication links are good enough. Well, that's an issue whatever you do with North Yorkshire. The Dales do share the issues of sparsely-populated rural areas, and agriculture and tourism as the main industries so they do for a community of interes of sorts |
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 14,840
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Post by J.G.Harston on Jan 5, 2021 15:46:19 GMT
But Ilkley is in West Yorkshire, and we need a West/North Yorkshire cross-border seat. You need to swap Skipton with another NorthYorks area. I'm minded to think the Wetherby area might be better for a cross-border seat. I'll have to wait until I get home, if I start spreading maps out here at work people will notice. I think Mike meant swapping the two into/out of Keighley, ie Keighley loses Ilkley and gains Skipton. I like the Skipton/Keighley mix because they're nearby, have good transport links and seem to share a few services etc. in common I used to work at Airedale Hospital, which is in Keighley but right on the border with Skipton, such that to get out of the carpark and orient myself to drive home I drove out of West Yorkshire and back in again in a few hundred yards. |
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ilerda
Conservative
Posts: 1,112
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Post by ilerda on Jan 5, 2021 16:57:12 GMT
Sheffield and Barnsley making 8 seats is a great relief. Will allow for a pattern fairly similar to what exists now. Will be interesting to see if BCE would prefer to keep seats within these council groupings and therefore split wards, or not split wards but do more council boundary crossings. For example, a Sheffield SE seat would either need to take part of Manor Castle ward or a ward from Rotherham to reach quota. I know which I favour but what will BCE prefer? The simplest (but not necessarily the best) option in Sheffield, if one ward split were to be deemed acceptable, would be to note that after ward realignment all of Hallam, Brightside & Hillsborough and Penistone & Stocksbridge are within range, Central is too big by a whole ward and SE and Heeley are a little too small, so just removing Central's excess ward (Manor Castle) and splitting it between the two undersize seats will work. A Sheffield-Barnsley pairing requires the two Dearne wards to come into a Barnsley seat. That can be done without changing P & S: move them both into Barnsley East (which will be renamed Barnsley South), transfer Cudworth and North East to Barnsley Central (to be renamed Barnsley North) and shift Kingstone from Central/North to East/South. It might be better to put all of Manor Castle in Heeley and split Richmond instead, avoiding the mess that the last ward review made of Handsworth becoming a parliamentary boundary. I agree that splitting Richmond would be better. The Handsworth nose can stay in SE, and then either Intake (due to links with Birley) or Stradbroke can join it. Richmond ward currently in Heeley is circa 11,000, which divides in two nicely to bring SE and Heeley into quota. Barnsley South and North will be sensible constituencies but awful names. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2021 21:13:31 GMT
I suspect the good people of Wetherby would be perfectly content with being paired with Harrogate.
They like to think of themselves as North Yorkshire.
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