2023 Review - Yorkshire and the Humber

[YL]

The Conservative submission

They support almost everything in the BCE's proposals in South Yorkshire and northern Lincolnshire. The exceptions are that they propose that Rother Vale ward should be included in Rotherham rather than Rother Valley and that they don't like the "South Humber" name, suggesting "Northern Lincolnshire" or "Brigg & Immingham" instead.

In Hull and the East Riding, they retain SW Holderness (the Hedon area) in a Beverley & Holderness constituency and have two constituencies entirely within Hull. They unite the three southern Haltemprice wards and also South Hunsley in their Hull West & Haltemprice. Then they have a rather awkward looking (first glance reaction) Pocklington & Howdenshire which includes Cottingham, and they cross the East Riding boundary twice, once to add the Filey area (and Wolds ward of Ryedale) to their Bridlington & the Wolds, and once to include Goole in a Selby & Goole constituency.

In North Yorkshire most of their constituencies are fairly similar to the BCE's, with a few wards moved around, but they don't like the BCE's Wetherby & Easingwold. Notably they don't contract Harrogate & Knaresborough as much as the BCE do. As mentioned above most of Selby district is in a Selby & Goole seat.

They have three constituencies crossing the West Yorkshire/North Yorkshire border. The first is "Leeds North & Wharfedale" containing Otley & Yeadon, Adel & Wharfedale and Guiseley & Rawdon together with some rural wards in Harrogate district; the second is "Elmet", containing two Selby wards and four east Leeds wards, including Wetherby and Temple Newsam. Finally they include Byram & Brotherton ward of Selby in a Pontefract & Castleford seat which also includes the Kippax part of Kippax & Methley ward of Leeds (so this proposed constituency contains both an orphan ward and an orphan part ward) but not Altofts & Whitwood. The Methley bit of Kippax & Methley also gets orphaned, joining Altofts & Whitwood in their Wakefield constituency. Otherwise their Wakefield constituencies are the same as the BCE's, including the cross-border Ossett & Denby Dale.

Elsewhere in Leeds, they move Horsforth back into Pudsey, unite Gipton & Harehills in Leeds East but split Little London & Woodhouse between Central and East, and have a Morley & Rothwell constituency.

In Calderdale they transfer Rastrick ward to Huddersfield, and split the remaining wards along bizarre lines: the three Upper Valley wards join most of Halifax, but not Illingworth & Mixenden, in one seat, and the rest go into a barely connected near doughnut stretching round both the south and north of Halifax.

In Kirklees they suggest Batley & Dewsbury (I wonder why?) and a Spen Valley seat which takes Dalton ward as a bite out of Huddersfield (which gets Rastrick instead, as mentioned). Heckmondwike ward gets split between Batley & Dewsbury and Spen Valley.

[Deleted]

I've not really had time to go through the submissions myself - out of interest, has there been any proposal to link Keighley & Skipton?

[YL]

The Labour submission

They start in Hull, where they suggest that Cottingham should be added to a Hull seat rather than South Hunsley; they add it to North, which would mean all three Hull seats crossed the city boundary. They also move a couple of wards around within the city. Except for Cottingham vs. South Hunsley, they support the BCE in the East Riding.

In South Yorkshire and the north Lincolnshire unitaries they basically support the BCE (though they "regret" the removal of Manor Castle from Sheffield Central) except that they suggest splitting Haverstoe ward to retain Scartho with Grimsby.

In North Yorkshire they support the BCE.

In Bradford they suggest a split of Little Horton ward to give a more minimal change map.

In Calderdale they also transfer Rastrick to Huddersfield, but otherwise have a minimal change arrangement. To make room for Rastrick, they transfer Almondbury ward to "Horbury & Denby Dale", which is otherwise the BCE's Ossett & Denby Dale without Ossett, which goes to Dewsbury. They also split Heckmondwike ward, but keep Batley & Spen unchanged except for moving part of that ward to Dewsbury.

In Leeds their proposals are rather different from the BCE's. They keep Gipton & Harehills unsplit in Leeds East, to which they add Roundhay, Leeds NE taking Adel & Wharfedale and Leeds NW taking Weetwood. Instead of the BCE's Headlingey they have a Leeds Central seat containing Little London & Woodhouse (but not Hunslet & Riverside, which makes me question the name) and they create a Leeds South East containing Beeston & Holbeck, Hunslet & Riveside, Temple Newsam, Garforth & Swillington and part of Burmantofts & Richmond Hill (the rest of which remains in East).

[YL]

The Lib Dem submission

They also start in Hull. Like the Tories, they return SW Holderness to a Beverley & Holderness seat; like Labour they add Cottingham to Hull North and keep South Hunsley ward out of a Hull seat. They split Wolds Weighton between Bridlington & the Wolds and their Goole/Howden seat, which for reasons best known to themselves they propose calling "Boothferry & South Hunsley".

The only other counterproposal they make is to avoid the BCE's four district Wetherby & Easingwold seat and the double crossing of the WY/NY border; they do this by putting the south of Selby district together with three Leeds wards in "Wetherby & Eggborough" and the rest of Selby district together with the BCE's other Wetherby & Easingwold wards in "Selby & Easingwold".

That's it; they support the rest of the BCE's proposals.

[YL]

For completeness, the Green submission is pretty minimal. They swap Armley and Bramley & Stanningley between the BCE's Pudsey and Headingley seats, they suggest keeping Crosland Moor & Netherton rather than Lindley in Colne Valley but don't have a suggestion about what to do about the fact this moves Colne Valley outside the legal range, and they don't like Wetherby & Easingwold but don't have an alternative.

[YL]

Feb 7, 2022 17:52:38 GMT @europeanlefty said:

I've not really had time to go through the submissions myself - out of interest, has there been any proposal to link Keighley & Skipton?

I don't think so.

[J.G.Harston]

Waaayyyyyy too many people thinking this is a local councl review. "I DONT WAN'T TO BE IN HULL!!!" "MOVE YARM INTO NORTH YORKSHIRE!!" "WE HATE DONCASTER!" (almost)

[bjornhattan]

Feb 7, 2022 21:55:33 GMT J.G.Harston said:

Waaayyyyyy too many people thinking this is a local councl review. "I DONT WAN'T TO BE IN HULL!!!" "MOVE YARM INTO NORTH YORKSHIRE!!" "WE HATE DONCASTER!" (almost)

At least one comment in the North East essentially proposes moving the Scottish Border, because North Northumberland has more in common with Scotland than Morpeth...

[YL]

I thought the Brighouse Snake, as proposed by the Conservative Party and Craig Whittaker MP, deserved to be shown in its full "glory". So here it is, together with the Halifax & Upper Calder seat it appears to be throttling, and their version of Huddersfield, which also contains a Calderdale ward:



Now, you may think you've seen a shape rather like that before. If you do, perhaps you were thinking of the most recent local election results in Calderdale (map taken from Wikipedia):



I think I'd be particularly unimpressed if I lived in Sowerby Bridge.

[YL]

There's not much interesting in the MPs' submissions; most just support the BCE or reiterate their party's proposals. A few others comment on some names.

Paul Blomfield (Sheffield Central; 73393) objects to removing Manor Castle ward from the constituency, but doesn't have an alternative. He makes a strange claim that Manor Castle is the only ward to have been continuously in the constituency since 1983; OK, the current City ward didn't exist back then, but almost all of its territory has always been in the constituency, as have substantial parts of the other three wards (the bits which were in Sharrow or Netherthorpe wards before 2004).

Alexander Stafford (Rother Valley; 69848 and 69858), in addition to saying Rother Vale should go to Rotherham as per the Tory submission, wants to split Bramley & Ravenfield ward to keep Bramley south of Bawtry Road in Rother Valley.

Karl Turner (Hull East; 74826) supports adding St Andrews & Docklands ward to form a "Kingston upon Hull East & Docklands" constituency. Both Labour and the Tories support adding this ward, and he doesn't say whether he supports the addition of SW Holderness.

Judith Cummins (Bradford South; 75077) supports moving a single polling district into her constituency rather than the BCE's ward swap, though she doesn't say which one. (Labour tentatively suggest 18H in Little Horton.)

Imran Ahmad Khan (Wakefield; 85493) like the Ossett & Denby Dale proposal but for some reason wants to call it "Dearne & Calder". Some of the claims he makes about the courses of these rivers are wrong: the Dearne doesn't flow through Wakefield South ward, and the Calder flows from Kirklees into Wakefield, not the other way round (and, more to the point, the parts of Kirklees it flows through aren't in the proposed constituency).

Robbie Moore (Keighley; 75768) wants Ilkley in the name, an idea which the BCE have rejected in the past.

Andrew Percy (Brigg & Goole; 70162) doesn't like the "South Humber" name (I don't think anyone does, actually) and suggests "Brigg & Immingham" or "Brigg & Humberstone". He also wants "Isle of Axholme" in full, not just "Axholme". He's not objecting to the abolition of his constituency.

John Healey (Wentworth & Dearne; 70356) wants to keep the Wentworth name, so "Wentworth & Conisbrough" rather than "Rawmarsh & Conisbrough".

[greenhert]

Feb 12, 2022 10:04:32 GMT YL said:

There's not much interesting in the MPs' submissions; most just support the BCE or reiterate their party's proposals. A few others comment on some names.

Paul Blomfield (Sheffield Central; 73393) objects to removing Manor Castle ward from the constituency, but doesn't have an alternative. He makes a strange claim that Manor Castle is the only ward to have been continuously in the constituency since 1983; OK, the current City ward didn't exist back then, but almost all of its territory has always been in the constituency, as have substantial parts of the other three wards (the bits which were in Sharrow or Netherthorpe wards before 2004).

Alexander Stafford (Rother Valley; 69848 and 69858), in addition to saying Rother Vale should go to Rotherham as per the Tory submission, wants to split Bramley & Ravenfield ward to keep Bramley south of Bawtry Road in Rother Valley.

Karl Turner (Hull East; 74826) supports adding St Andrews & Docklands ward to form a "Kingston upon Hull East & Docklands" constituency. Both Labour and the Tories support adding this ward, and he doesn't say whether he supports the addition of SW Holderness.

Judith Cummins (Bradford South; 75077) supports moving a single polling district into her constituency rather than the BCE's ward swap, though she doesn't say which one. (Labour tentatively suggest 18H in Little Horton.)

Imran Ahmad Khan (Wakefield; 85493) like the Ossett & Denby Dale proposal but for some reason wants to call it "Dearne & Calder". Some of the claims he makes about the courses of these rivers are wrong: the Dearne doesn't flow through Wakefield South ward, and the Calder flows from Kirklees into Wakefield, not the other way round (and, more to the point, the parts of Kirklees it flows through aren't in the proposed constituency).

Robbie Moore (Keighley; 75768) wants Ilkley in the name, an idea which the BCE have rejected in the past.

Andrew Percy (Brigg & Goole; 70162) doesn't like the "South Humber" name (I don't think anyone does, actually) and suggests "Brigg & Immingham" or "Brigg & Humberstone". He also wants "Isle of Axholme" in full, not just "Axholme". He's not objecting to the abolition of his constituency.

John Healey (Wentworth & Dearne; 70356) wants to keep the Wentworth name, so "Wentworth & Conisbrough" rather than "Rawmarsh & Conisbrough".

I suspect the real reason that Paul Blomfield objects to the removal of Manor Castle ward from Sheffield Central, even though it makes perfect sense, is because Manor Castle is the only ward in Sheffield Central with no Green councillors representing it and has the lowest levels of Green support of the five wards making up Sheffield Central. 

[ilerda]

I also think some MPs feel the need to “object” to the loss of wards that are strongly favourable towards them for party political reasons, even if the new seat is still safe overall. If people have contacted them to say they’re unhappy then they might want to make out they’re representing their constituents despite the fact they’re perfectly happy with the new arrangement themselves.

[YL]

I think it's clear that Manor Castle saved Blomfield in his first election in 2010 and that the proposed seat would have voted Lib Dem then, and there could be a feeling that there are circumstances (though, unless there was a by-election there for some reason, they really don't seem very likely in the foreseeable future) that a purely inner west Sheffield seat could be vulnerable, most likely to the Greens.

If you really wanted to come up with an alternative you could move Nether Edge & Sharrow to Heeley, which would withdraw from Richmond altogether. You then need to move three polling districts from Richmond (or maybe some of Darnall) into Central. But I think that that gives less coherent Central and Heeley constituencies than the BCE plan, by some distance.

[Deleted]

Just going through the responses on the Wakefield / Rothwell seat, some of them do raise a wry smile:

‘We bought our house within Leeds City Council boundaries and with a Leeds post code as we wanted to live in Leeds. Leeds City Council is strong and performs well, Wakefield is a much smaller city and I do not think the Council is as strong.’

‘Please leave us with Leeds. It’s a vibrant city, where Wakefield is unfortunately a much poorer area. I have worked in Wakefield all my life but I'm a Leeds Lass.

‘Who’s smart idea is this ? I bet it’s a group of box tickers in the council office.. I do not want a wakey post code or to be under the Wakefield council . If that’s what they want to do we should have a vote on it just like we had on Europe !!!!!! But you can bet we won’t get one pure scum !!! ALL LEEDS AINT WE . Read the history of Leeds it’s first mentioned as a small settlement near ROTHWELL NUFF SAID’

‘There is no way on this planet that my postcode will be associated with Wakefield. Draw the lines again, you’ve got it wrong.’

I should say there are responses supporting the proposals as well, notably ones stating that Rothwell fits better (socioeconomically) with Wakefield than with Wetherby, as at present.

(Btw, as a Wakefield lad I would also point out that some of these views of Wakey are a little unfair and dated).

[Adam in Stroud]

Feb 13, 2022 14:00:57 GMT @johnyorks said:

Just going through the responses on the Wakefield / Rothwell seat, some of them do raise a wry smile:

‘We bought our house within Leeds City Council boundaries and with a Leeds post code as we wanted to live in Leeds. Leeds City Council is strong and performs well, Wakefield is a much smaller city and I do not think the Council is as strong.’

‘Please leave us with Leeds. It’s a vibrant city, where Wakefield is unfortunately a much poorer area. I have worked in Wakefield all my life but I'm a Leeds Lass.

‘Who’s smart idea is this ? I bet it’s a group of box tickers in the council office.. I do not want a wakey post code or to be under the Wakefield council . If that’s what they want to do we should have a vote on it just like we had on Europe !!!!!! But you can bet we won’t get one pure scum !!! ALL LEEDS AINT WE . Read the history of Leeds it’s first mentioned as a small settlement near ROTHWELL NUFF SAID’

‘There is no way on this planet that my postcode will be associated with Wakefield. Draw the lines again, you’ve got it wrong.’

I should say there are responses supporting the proposals as well, notably ones stating that Rothwell fits better (socioeconomically) with Wakefield than with Wetherby, as at present.

(Btw, as a Wakefield lad I would also point out that some of these views of Wakey are a little unfair and dated).

Disappointed the third quote didn't make any reference to being robbed of the European Cup and insistence the BCE runs a referendum on whether UEFA should be compelled to award it to Leeds retrospectively.

[YL]

Lots of submissions putting forward this as an alternative plan for the Grimsby/Cleethorpes area, apparently as an attempt to maintain separate Grimsby and Cleethorpes constituencies:


1. Cleethorpes & Villages
2. Immingham & Great Grimsby
(the names used consistently in the submissions)

Isn't there a bit of an elephant in the room here?

[YL]

Speaking of that area, if you want to read a good rant, read representation number 63114.

[ilerda]

Feb 14, 2022 18:35:35 GMT YL said:

Speaking of that area, if you want to read a good rant, read representation number 63114.

A series of reasonable (if not entirely justifiable) arguments about constituency-based identity and regional boundaries are ruined by opening lines ranting about "gerrymandering" and "disenfranchising".

[J.G.Harston]

Feb 14, 2022 18:35:35 GMT YL said:

Speaking of that area, if you want to read a good rant, read representation number 63114.

"Grimsby and Cleethorps need to be moved to East Anglia" !

North Norfolk (detatched)?

[bjornhattan]

Feb 14, 2022 22:33:13 GMT J.G.Harston said:

Feb 14, 2022 18:35:35 GMT YL said:

Speaking of that area, if you want to read a good rant, read representation number 63114.

"Grimsby and Cleethorps need to be moved to East Anglia" !

North Norfolk (detatched)?

I find the idea that northern Lincolnshire fits better with the East of England than it does with Yorkshire laughable. It's hard to deny that southern Lincolnshire is very similar to Norfolk or the north of Cambridgeshire, but the review area based on East Anglia is far more extensive than that!

I realise Grimbarians don't like the idea of being lumped in with Hull, but they have far more in common with the city than they do with Basildon or Watford...