2023 Review - Yorkshire and the Humber

[andrew111]

Jul 5, 2021 9:48:05 GMT andrew111 said:

By the way there is already a split ward in Kirklees. There is a housing complex with about 50 electors in the mismatch shown below who vote in Huddersfield constituency but in Kirkburton ward


www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/election-maps/gb/

OK, sorry, that link is to the map in genearl but the mismatch is on the edge of Almondbury Ward near Gawthorpe and Houses Hill. My phone does not like sharing screenshots

[J.G.Harston]

Jul 5, 2021 9:53:54 GMT andrew111 said:

Jul 5, 2021 9:48:05 GMT andrew111 said:

By the way there is already a split ward in Kirklees. There is a housing complex with about 50 electors in the mismatch shown below who vote in Huddersfield constituency but in Kirkburton ward

www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/election-maps/gb/

OK, sorry, that link is to the map in genearl but the mismatch is on the edge of Almondbury Ward near Gawthorpe and Houses Hill. My phone does not like sharing screenshots

And will be a result of the wards being redrawn at some point since the constituencies were redrawn. Constitutiences are collections of wards, not the other way around. There's exactlt the same sort of stuff in Sheffield, on the edge of Walkley a the constituency boundary runs through a block of flats that was built over the ward boundary before the ward boundary was moved to take it into account, the constituency boundary won't move until the following constituency review. That's just how it happens. Ward reviews do not change constituences, you must have a constituency review to change constituencies.

(And I've never been able to generate a link to a specific bit of ElectionMaps, its navigation isn't exposed in the URL, you have to just go into it and select and zoom into the bit that you want. Horrible interface, especially after they stopped using proper Landranger maps.)

[andrew111]

Jul 5, 2021 12:58:22 GMT J.G.Harston said:

Jul 5, 2021 9:53:54 GMT andrew111 said:

OK, sorry, that link is to the map in genearl but the mismatch is on the edge of Almondbury Ward near Gawthorpe and Houses Hill. My phone does not like sharing screenshots

And will be a result of the wards being redrawn at some point since the constituencies were redrawn. Constitutiences are collections of wards, not the other way around. There's exactlt the same sort of stuff in Sheffield, on the edge of Walkley a the constituency boundary runs through a block of flats that was built over the ward boundary before the ward boundary was moved to take it into account, the constituency boundary won't move until the following constituency review. That's just how it happens. Ward reviews do not change constituences, you must have a constituency review to change constituencies.

(And I've never been able to generate a link to a specific bit of ElectionMaps, its navigation isn't exposed in the URL, you have to just go into it and select and zoom into the bit that you want. Horrible interface, especially after they stopped using proper Landranger maps.)

Yes, I am sure you are correct. The constituency boundary follows a stream and actually half the development of an old mill site is in Huddersfield, and half in Dewsbury. The ward boundary puts the whole development in Kirkburton. I will check if this has been fixed in the BC review.

I do regularly use screenshots of the OS election map in leaflets, given that copyright allows it. It is the clearest available imo (which shows interesting things like play areas that are no longer play areas).

[Pete Whitehead]

Does anyone know from the top of their head how many voters are in the Kirkheaton section of Dalton ward (which the BCe propose to split between Huddersfield and Dewsbury)?

[Crimson King]

Jul 5, 2021 9:15:21 GMT islington said:

Jul 5, 2021 9:02:36 GMT East Anglian Lefty said:

I don't think it would meet the 40% bar to be considered to have a presumptive claim on the seat, so there would have to be an open selection. And I would have to imagine that a lot of local councillors would be interested in the selection for a seat which would probably have the highest Asian share of the electorate aside from Bradford West.

Speaking of Bradford, I've just noticed that if you split Clayton & Fairweather Green and Thornton & Allerton into their component parts and put Clayton and Thornton with Bradford South and Fairweather Green and Allerton with Bradford West, you get a Bradford West with an electorate of 70769 and a South with an electorate of 69808. Both look more coherent on a map than the initial proposals and I see no obvious reason to believe they'd be pitchfork bait, so if anybody is sticking a submission in for the area, please feel free to steal that.

EAL - Having enough on my plate elsewhere I've decided not to do a submission in Y&H but I was hoping you might, since your Kirklees suggestion is excellent and you want to do something about Wetherby.

As for Bradford, if you're OK with splitting wards surely the simplest and least disruptive solution is to hive off the PD tucked into the southeastern corner of Lt Horton ward (I've forgotten its number but you'll se the one I mean if you check a map). If you switch that single PD into Bradford S, with which it's a perfect fit, then the whole of the rest of Bradford can stay as it is.

As I mentioned somewhere else, there is no way to get to the Fairweather Green bit of C&FG from Clayton by road without passing through another ward (and the connections between Thornton and Allerton are not that great either, ) So I could see the merits in that (presuming that in the fullness of time the ward boundaries would move as well)

[islington]

Jul 5, 2021 16:55:57 GMT Crimson King said:

Jul 5, 2021 9:15:21 GMT islington said:

EAL - Having enough on my plate elsewhere I've decided not to do a submission in Y&H but I was hoping you might, since your Kirklees suggestion is excellent and you want to do something about Wetherby.

As for Bradford, if you're OK with splitting wards surely the simplest and least disruptive solution is to hive off the PD tucked into the southeastern corner of Lt Horton ward (I've forgotten its number but you'll se the one I mean if you check a map). If you switch that single PD into Bradford S, with which it's a perfect fit, then the whole of the rest of Bradford can stay as it is.

As I mentioned somewhere else, there is no way to get to the Fairweather Green bit of C&FG from Clayton by road without passing through another ward (and the connections between Thornton and Allerton are not that great either, ) So I could see the merits in that (presuming that in the fullness of time the ward boundaries would move as well)

I've had a look: it's PD 18J. It's everything south and east of a line drawn along Manchester Road from the southern boundary of the ward to the junction with Parkside Road; along Parkside Road until it crosses the former railway; and north along the former railway to the ward boundary. I've no idea how many electors it contains, but surely at least the 405 you need to add to Bradford S.

Edited to add: It's 1566 electors. So if we switch just that PD we have Bradford S = 70885, Bradford E = 72155 and all is well and there is no need for any other change in Bradford.

Further edited to add: It looks like this.

[islington]

Jul 5, 2021 16:14:45 GMT Pete Whitehead said:

Does anyone know from the top of their head how many voters are in the Kirkheaton section of Dalton ward (which the BCe propose to split between Huddersfield and Dewsbury)?

3085.

[cmarsh]

Batley and Hipperholme needs to be re-thought. Why not pair Batley and Morley as one of the earlier proposals did?

[islington]

Do we know who (on the forum) submitted anything in Y&H?

I was tempted but held off in the end.

[ilerda]

I only did it to endorse the Sheffield/Barnsley proposals, especially the split of Richmond

I came up with a plan for West Yorkshire than involved “Batley and Morley”, “Dewsbury”, “Mirfield and Spen”, “Wakefield (minus Rothwell)”, and “Rothwell and Outwood”, plus two seats entirely in Calderdale but didn’t submit it in the end because I don’t know the area too well and it involved 4 ward splits.

Having said that, my plan did propose to include all of the Kirkburton parish within one constituency despite it being split across 3 Kirklees wards.

[YL]

Aug 8, 2021 20:08:44 GMT islington said:

Do we know who (on the forum) submitted anything in Y&H?

I was tempted but held off in the end.

<hand up>

Like ilerda, I supported the Sheffield/Barnsley arrangements. The main areas where I suggested something different from the BCE were Kirklees/Calderdale (to avoid Batley & Hipperholme) and Hull/East Riding (to avoid Hedon being in a Hull seat).

Aug 8, 2021 20:29:00 GMT ilerda said:

I came up with a plan for West Yorkshire than involved “Batley and Morley”, “Dewsbury”, “Mirfield and Spen”, “Wakefield (minus Rothwell)”, and “Rothwell and Outwood”, plus two seats entirely in Calderdale but didn’t submit it in the end because I don’t know the area too well and it involved 4 ward splits.

How did you do Batley & Morley? Split of Ardsley & Robin Hood, or of peripheral bits of Batley West?

[islington]

Did no one suggest getting rid of that 4-LA Wetherby thing?

[ilerda]

Aug 9, 2021 6:46:37 GMT YL said:

Aug 8, 2021 20:29:00 GMT ilerda said:

I came up with a plan for West Yorkshire than involved “Batley and Morley”, “Dewsbury”, “Mirfield and Spen”, “Wakefield (minus Rothwell)”, and “Rothwell and Outwood”, plus two seats entirely in Calderdale but didn’t submit it in the end because I don’t know the area too well and it involved 4 ward splits.

How did you do Batley & Morley? Split of Ardsley & Robin Hood, or of peripheral bits of Batley West?

Do you know, I’ve absolutely no idea why I said that, because I didn’t. I blame the perils of posting late at night.

I managed it working off 2019 numbers but not the actual ones.

In reality my plan this time was for “Morley and Spen”, “Batley and Dewsbury”, “Mirfield and Lower Calder”, “Wakefield”, and “Rothwell and Outwood”.

Split wards were Almondbury, Dalton, Dewsbury South, and Crofton, Ryhill and Walton.

[YL]

Aug 9, 2021 6:56:15 GMT islington said:

Did no one suggest getting rid of that 4-LA Wetherby thing?

Yes, though not with any great enthusiasm...

[islington]

Jun 24, 2021 8:59:00 GMT East Anglian Lefty said:

Wakefield 75451
Morley & Leeds South 70437
Leeds Central 73364
Rothwell & Eggborough 76780
Leeds West & Wetherby 74799
Selby & Easingwold 73242

Gipton & Harehills ward is split along the same lines as the initial proposals.

The last seat is pretty terrible and several of the others are nothing to write home about, so I personally wouldn't think it was worth submitting, but it's definitely more respectful of local authority boundaries.

In partisan terms Morley shifts towards Labour, but Leeds West favours the Tories and whilst Rothwell & Eggborough is a little better for us than Selby, it still looks like very heavy lifting right now.

Sorry to dredge this up after all this time, and it's much too late now anyway, but if you're willing to throw York UA into the mix, I suggest this is a better solution than anything we discussed back in June.

Rothwell and Tadcaster - 73166.

Selby - 72753.

Vale of York - 76416.

York - 75261.

Other seats as East Anglian Lefty had them above, except for a couple of name changes:

Wakefield - 75451.
Leeds South and Morley - 70437.
Leeds Central - 73364.
Leeds East & Wetherby - 74799.

If I'd thought of this in time I might well have submitted it.

[YL]

I don't think there's anything to stop you submitting a new proposal once the second consultation opens, though if it isn't reacting to something people made a fuss about in the first round there probably isn't much point.

[minionofmidas]

You could also book a speaking slot at the public hearing and present this alternative there.

[East Anglian Lefty]

Though I'd note that since North Yorkshire is going unitary the proposed seat will no longer be a four-authority seat by the time it's created.

[islington]

Jan 22, 2022 21:14:37 GMT East Anglian Lefty said:

Though I'd note that since North Yorkshire is going unitary the proposed seat will no longer be a four-authority seat by the time it's created.

Er ... Good point.

I'll leave it be.

[YL]

Here's a summary of the representations they've included on the right hand side for this region. I haven't looked at them properly yet...

54492: This is from the Heavy Woollen District Independents. It is not restricted to their area.
60759: This is mine, so I will say no more.
64225: This is from Jonathan Stansby of Altrincham.
65908: This is from someone from Crowle in the Isle of Axholme, and focusses on Doncaster and the Humber unitaries only.
79391: This is a spreadsheet-only submission from Preston.
80475: This is from someone from Hull, with a focus on that area but some knock-on effects elsewhere.
85514: This is the Conservative submission.
83616: This is the Green submission.
79525: This is the Labour submission.
83448: This is the Lib Dem submission.
63106: This is an all England submission from the handwriter of Chepstow. As far as I can see their only comment on this region is on the name of the proposed South Humber constituency.
85615: This is an all England submission which concentrates on names.
83054: This is from Bristol University and is an all England analysis of the proposed changes.