J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 13,620
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Post by J.G.Harston on Nov 20, 2020 22:28:57 GMT
Latest Yougov polling has indeprndence on 33% (highest ever) and support for Devomax (whatever that is) at 58%. I have always thought that "Devo Max" was in effect independence, without the formal separation, although that said I quite like the way that Bob Hale (from Horrible Histories described it as "only having one calorie") Independence within the United Kingdom.
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johng
Labour
Posts: 4,493
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Post by johng on Nov 20, 2020 23:13:59 GMT
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johng
Labour
Posts: 4,493
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Post by johng on Nov 22, 2020 22:17:49 GMT
From that same Yougov/ Yes Cymru poll, I have found the table on the 'devomax' question - though only that question. The question didn't actually mention devomax. Though clearly the question indicates powers even greater than those already devolved in Scotland including full taxation and welfare powers. The exact wording was (my emphasis): 'If there was a referendum tomorrow on the transferring of more powers to the Senedd (Welsh Parliament), including control of tax and welfare, but excluding defence and foreign affairs, how would you vote? Should more powers be transferred to the Senedd (Welsh Parliament)?'
As given above, 59% would vote yes and 41% no. Though basically a third said they either wouldn't vote or didn't know. The full figures were yes on 40%, no on 28%, wouldn't vote on 10%, don't know on 20%, and refused on 3%.
Party breakdown was:
Plaid Cymru - Yes 90% to No 10%
Labour - Yes 82% to No 18%
Conservative - No 79% to Yes 21%
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Nov 25, 2020 16:47:09 GMT
If you didn't believe in Wales having more powers, why would you vote for Plaid?!
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Post by pragmaticidealist on Nov 25, 2020 16:49:00 GMT
If you didn't believe in Wales having more powers, why would you vote for Plaid?! Their candidate will fix the local potholes.
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pl
Non-Aligned
Posts: 1,563
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Post by pl on Nov 25, 2020 17:01:07 GMT
If you didn't believe in Wales having more powers, why would you vote for Plaid?! It's like the eurosceptics who voted Lib Dem in the South West.... they like them because they are either a) seen as localist/local champions (yes, the potholes!), b) don't like the other alternatives or c) don't have a damn clue what the party actually stands for!
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Post by Penddu on Nov 25, 2020 19:24:04 GMT
If you didn't believe in Wales having more powers, why would you vote for Plaid?! There are also those who will not vote for Devomax because they want Independence or nothing.... Personally I dont want Devomax either but I would take it as another step in the right direction - just not as the final destination.
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Post by Penddu on Dec 24, 2020 6:50:40 GMT
I cant confirm the details, but I have just been told by a reliable source that the latest Yougov polling has support for Welsh independence now at 39% (up from 33%). That is some momentum....
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CatholicLeft
Labour
2032 posts until I was "accidentally" deleted.
Posts: 6,245
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Post by CatholicLeft on Dec 24, 2020 10:41:20 GMT
I cant confirm the details, but I have just been told by a reliable source that the latest Yougov polling has support for Welsh independence now at 39% (up from 33%). That is some momentum.... I suspect it is fairly weak in its commitment and based on the strange moid created by these times.
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Post by LDCaerdydd on Dec 24, 2020 11:47:01 GMT
I cant confirm the details, but I have just been told by a reliable source that the latest Yougov polling has support for Welsh independence now at 39% (up from 33%). That is some momentum.... I suspect it is fairly weak in its commitment and based on the strange moid created by these times. Along with the lack of any formal no/together campaign and Labour and Conservatives being busy running their respective governments (regardless of how well/badly you think they’re doing)
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johng
Labour
Posts: 4,493
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Post by johng on Dec 24, 2020 12:04:52 GMT
I suspect it is fairly weak in its commitment and based on the strange moid created by these times. Along with the lack of any formal no/together campaign and Labour and Conservatives being busy running their respective governments (regardless of how well/badly you think they’re doing) Because the 'better together' campaign did so well in Scotland, didn't it? We'd have a similar issue here if Labour and the Tories ran a joint union campaign - it would simply have to be two separate ones.
It's a little worrying as well to be honest if it is quite that high. I have to agree though that it would mainly be soft support.
The good thing for our lot is that significant numbers of devomax and independence still support Labour here.
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Post by LDCaerdydd on Dec 24, 2020 13:12:23 GMT
Along with the lack of any formal no/together campaign and Labour and Conservatives being busy running their respective governments (regardless of how well/badly you think they’re doing) Because the 'better together' campaign did so well in Scotland, didn't it? We'd have a similar issue here if Labour and the Tories ran a joint union campaign - it would simply have to be two separate ones.
It's a little worrying as well to be honest if it is quite that high. I have to agree though that it would mainly be soft support.
The good thing for our lot is that significant numbers of devomax and independence still support Labour here.
What I was trying to say is the independence “debate”* is only a few years old in Wales and there is no formal opposition to independence. The argument that Yes Cymru are putting out isn’t questioned or challenged, so it’s hardly surprising support for independence has grown since their establishment. And yes you’re right it’s uber soft support. * the definition of debate is of course involves the discussion of different opinions.
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johng
Labour
Posts: 4,493
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Post by johng on Dec 24, 2020 13:36:30 GMT
Because the 'better together' campaign did so well in Scotland, didn't it? We'd have a similar issue here if Labour and the Tories ran a joint union campaign - it would simply have to be two separate ones.
It's a little worrying as well to be honest if it is quite that high. I have to agree though that it would mainly be soft support.
The good thing for our lot is that significant numbers of devomax and independence still support Labour here.
What I was trying to say is the independence “debate”* is only a few years old in Wales and there is no formal opposition to independence. The argument that Yes Cymru are putting out isn’t questioned or challenged, so it’s hardly surprising support for independence has grown since their establishment. And yes you’re right it’s uber soft support. * the definition of debate is of course involves the discussion of different opinions.
I'm not sure what debate there is to be had. Most of the issues are fairly clear to anyone who isn't 'don't know'. The problem is though that we live in a post-truth era. Anything negative can just be described as project fear.
You can't say there is no opposition to independence either. The Abolish party/ies and, increasingly, the Conservatives are hard-unionist/ anti-devolution in their rhetoric and policies.
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Dec 24, 2020 13:43:12 GMT
I've always rather enjoyed, on my Sunday afternoon walk, looking over the Severn and seeing (OK, only if it's a clear day) the Brecon Beacons, and thinking "Ah, look, a distant and strange land."
Please God don't let there be an actual border there, it has been quite bad enough with travel restrictions in The Year of Covid
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kefin
Non-Aligned
Posts: 258
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Post by kefin on Dec 24, 2020 14:15:08 GMT
I cant confirm the details, but I have just been told by a reliable source that the latest Yougov polling has support for Welsh independence now at 39% (up from 33%). That is some momentum.... I know of some shares in a long established silver mine in South America available at a very attractive price if you're interested. Let me know.
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Post by LDCaerdydd on Dec 24, 2020 14:35:09 GMT
You can't say there is no opposition to independence either. Well Plaid are championing independence and Labour, Cons and Lib Dems are doing fuck all to challenge it, call them out or question their more far fetched claims of sunshine and roses for all post independence so I’d say there’s no opposition.
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johng
Labour
Posts: 4,493
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Post by johng on Dec 24, 2020 14:55:05 GMT
You can't say there is no opposition to independence either. Well Plaid are championing independence and Labour, Cons and Lib Dems are doing fuck all to challenge it, call them out or question their more far fetched claims of sunshine and roses for all post independence so I’d say there’s no opposition.
The Conservatives certainly are challenging independence with their current anti-devolution rhetoric. It may be just as successful as in Scotland, but they are doing something. The best thing Labour can do to challenge it is to show how successful devolution can be. The current Covid situation is quite divisive, but I'd argue has been more positive for Labour than negative. The idea that we should go on and on about independence like the Scottish Tories is absolute nonsense. Not sure what the Lib Dems are doing tbh. Not sure it would be that important either. That's not an attack on you btw.
Of course many of the claims are far fetched, but it is rather difficult to challenge them too. As I said, we live in a post-truth era. Any challenge can either labelled as project fear or as anti-Welsh. The anti-devolution side in hardly truthful for that matter either.
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Post by Penddu on Dec 28, 2020 17:21:31 GMT
I cant confirm the details, but I have just been told by a reliable source that the latest Yougov polling has support for Welsh independence now at 39% (up from 33%). That is some momentum.... So it seems to be a Yougov online poll on Welsh independence - results: Stay in Uk: 41% Independence: 37% Not Sure: 21% That is pretty seismic....
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CatholicLeft
Labour
2032 posts until I was "accidentally" deleted.
Posts: 6,245
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Post by CatholicLeft on Dec 28, 2020 19:08:08 GMT
I cant confirm the details, but I have just been told by a reliable source that the latest Yougov polling has support for Welsh independence now at 39% (up from 33%). That is some momentum.... So it seems to be a Yougov online poll on Welsh independence - results: Stay in Uk: 41% Independence: 37% Not Sure: 21% That is pretty seismic.... Well, it could be, but you did then add the word'online'.
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johng
Labour
Posts: 4,493
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Post by johng on Dec 28, 2020 22:59:53 GMT
I cant confirm the details, but I have just been told by a reliable source that the latest Yougov polling has support for Welsh independence now at 39% (up from 33%). That is some momentum.... So it seems to be a Yougov online poll on Welsh independence - results: Stay in Uk: 41% Independence: 37% Not Sure: 21% That is pretty seismic....
Is there a link to this poll? Can't see anything online.
And when you say 'online', do you mean an online Twitter style poll (i.e. nonsense) or a real Yougov poll (i.e. not nonsense)?
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