johng
Labour
Posts: 4,850 
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Post by johng on Oct 28, 2020 22:37:31 GMT
I think a few of you have been drinking too much of the kool-aid.
'Creepy sleepy Uncle Joe'?! 'Confused old Tammany Hall stooge'?!?! Give it a rest.
Biden is not my ideal candidate and, looking at this thread at least, not many others either. He's a middle of the road, likeable, affable career politician. His record is clear for all to see.
If either of you had watched either of the debates, or that ABC town-hall, you would clearly see that Biden is sharp and knowledgeable. Yes, he makes gaffes, but he's been gaffe prone for decades.
You remind me of those conspiracy theorists who claimed that Hilary had Parkinson's. Four years on and she's still in excellent health. Funny that.
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Post by warofdreams on Oct 28, 2020 22:54:51 GMT
Torn. Despite my frequent ribbing, Joe's alright, it's Kamala and the socialist mob behind her that freak me out. I would vote GOP down ballot, but I'm not sure about Trump. He has his good points and his bad, but he's just such a loathsome character. Jo Jorgensen maybe, but the US Libertarians are a bit batty. I'll think about it. There any socialists in the USA?  There's one in this poll, Howie Hawkins is definitely a socialist of a type, a member of the Socialist Party USA, long term trade unionist, Wobbly, etc. Not that I'd be voting for him. |
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Sandy
Forum Regular
Posts: 3,201
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Post by Sandy on Oct 28, 2020 23:00:01 GMT
If either of you had watched either of the debates, or that ABC town-hall, you would clearly see that Biden is sharp and knowledgeable. Not what you said a few weeks ago: Biden came across as doddery and simply unable to handle Trump. |
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Post by pragmaticidealist on Oct 28, 2020 23:04:10 GMT
My preferred result as a hypothetical American might be a Biden win with a Republican Senate. Divided government is better when the parties are as atrocious as they are, and thankfully they seem incapable of working together.
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mboy
Liberal
Listen. Think. Speak.
Posts: 23,715
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Post by mboy on Oct 28, 2020 23:07:27 GMT
Very easy choice. The Democrat Party is awful, especially Pelosi, who would be empowered by allowing a confused old Tammany Hall stooge into the White House. Despite President Trump's many flaws, he is our friend and deserves to be reëlected against that shower. Trump doesn’t give a damn about us. In friend terms, he’s like the guy from school who turns up to your wedding after 25 years, smashes his glass, gets in a massive political argument with the bride’s younger sister, gropes a bridesmaid in a drunken state, gets taken home by the best man and pukes in the car on the way, and then texts the next day to say it was the best wedding ever and he’ll see you next weekend...and then you never see him again. |
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johng
Labour
Posts: 4,850
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Post by johng on Oct 28, 2020 23:08:19 GMT
If either of you had watched either of the debates, or that ABC town-hall, you would clearly see that Biden is sharp and knowledgeable. Not what you said a few weeks ago: Biden came across as doddery and simply unable to handle Trump. Umm... did you see Trump in that debate? There was a reason why Biden had a 30 point+ advantage when people were asked who won the debate and Biden then surged ahead in the polls. Neither the moderator nor Biden could handle Trump, but I don't think many people could have handled him and he wasn't blamed for that!
He did come across as a bit doddery to me - but that was in comparison to Trump who seemed to have borrowed some coke off Don Jr. By that I mean he needed to be a lot more assertive from the outset. Do I think Biden is doddery in general? No. He's clearly in much better physical shape than Trump and what he says makes a lot more sense to me.
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Sandy
Forum Regular
Posts: 3,201
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Post by Sandy on Oct 28, 2020 23:14:34 GMT
Not what you said a few weeks ago: Umm... did you see Trump in that debate? There was a reason why Biden had a 30 point+ advantage when people were asked who won the debate and Biden then surged ahead in the polls. Neither the moderator nor Biden could handle Trump, but I don't think many people could have handled him and he wasn't blamed for that!
He did come across as a bit doddery to me - but that was in comparison to Trump who seemed to have borrowed some coke off Don Jr. By that I mean he needed to be a lot more assertive from the outset. Do I think Biden is doddery in general? No. He's clearly in much better physical shape than Trump and what he says makes a lot more sense to me.
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iain
Lib Dem
Posts: 11,435
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Post by iain on Oct 28, 2020 23:22:03 GMT
Absolutely Biden. I like the US tradition of bipartisanship and would vote for Collins for Senate. However, if I actually lived there then I would be a a pretty partisan Democrat and probably wouldn’t even vote for her. I do get the feeling that a number (albeit not all) of our blue contingent say they would back Trump / the Republicans out of loyalty to the ‘right wing’ but are actually much more in tune with Biden than Trump.
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WJ
Non-Aligned
Posts: 3,267
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Post by WJ on Oct 28, 2020 23:26:58 GMT
Trump any day over creepy sleepy Uncle Joe. So called "conservatives" backing Biden should pull themselves together. There are plenty of conservative minded people who see nothing conservative in Trump and have a strong distaste for his brand of populism. As a right-leaning centrist, I would absolutely vote against him to send a message to the GOP. |
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Post by manchesterman on Oct 28, 2020 23:30:44 GMT
Biden but with no great enthusiasm. My wife sent off her mail-in ballot a couple of weeks ago [she phoned and managed to get confirmation it had duly arrived...surprised me that they even offer that facility!] and she voted Dem down the ticket. Her politics are quite similar to mine but she hates Trump with a passion. I could imagine her voting for a GOP candidate in some circumstances, in fact i think she voted Dubya in 04, but I have to remind myself that Trump's middle name is John, because she always calls him Donald F****Trump  |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2020 23:44:29 GMT
Hawkins, because I'd like a candidate from something approaching the left. Actually a much easier decision than last time because Trump is much less likely to win and the Green candidate isn't a rabid anti-vaxxer
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2020 23:47:13 GMT
Very easy choice. The Democrat Party is awful, especially Pelosi, who would be empowered by allowing a confused old Tammany Hall stooge into the White House. Despite President Trump's many flaws, he is our friend and deserves to be reëlected against that shower. You are entitled to your opinion, but not to make up rubbish. Joe Biden is clearly not a "confused old Tammany Hall stooge." I wouldn't vote for him, but not on the basis of such a daft claim. I wouldn't bother, these types never listen to sense |
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Sandy
Forum Regular
Posts: 3,201
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Post by Sandy on Oct 28, 2020 23:50:09 GMT
You are entitled to your opinion, but not to make up rubbish. Joe Biden is clearly not a "confused old Tammany Hall stooge." I wouldn't vote for him, but not on the basis of such a daft claim. I wouldn't bother, these types never listen to sense Says the complacent moron. Then again I suppose you would live in California so it doesn’t matter anyway. |
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Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Oct 29, 2020 1:28:44 GMT
OK, I just did a wee exercise, I sat and wrote out pros and cons under each candidates name. Biden has 14 pros and 14 cons, Trump has 21 pros and 16 cons. On that basis I'm tentatively voting Trump in the poll. If I think of anymore it may change. The support of former military leaders and support from police unions is a big reason for this vote.
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 12,012
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Post by Khunanup on Oct 29, 2020 2:00:50 GMT
Torn. Despite my frequent ribbing, Joe's alright, it's Kamala and the socialist mob behind her that freak me out. I would vote GOP down ballot, but I'm not sure about Trump. He has his good points and his bad, but he's just such a loathsome character. Jo Jorgensen maybe, but the US Libertarians are a bit batty. I'll think about it. You are displaying a lack of understanding of how much Kamala Harris is disliked by the left in general for her actions as the DA in San Francisco and AG of California. She would comfortably fit into the Liberal Democrats or even on the liberal wing of the Conservative Party. I wouldn't vote for the Biden/Harris ticket not least because of Kamala Harris, who I think is a vapid self-publicist and no supporter of criminal justice reform. I disagree, she'd be a Blairite over here. |
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CatholicLeft
Labour
2032 posts until I was "accidentally" deleted.
Posts: 6,722
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Post by CatholicLeft on Oct 29, 2020 3:49:49 GMT
OK, I just did a wee exercise, I sat and wrote out pros and cons under each candidates name. Biden has 14 pros and 14 cons, Trump has 21 pros and 16 cons. On that basis I'm tentatively voting Trump in the poll. If I think of anymore it may change. The support of former military leaders and support from police unions is a big reason for this vote. The number of former military leaders and national security officials of both parties opposing the present incumbent is huge. He has been attacked for retweeting the lie that Osama bin Ladin was not killed and that Joe Biden is responsible for arranging the killing of the Navy Seal team who "failed" to kill bin Ladin. President Trump has failed to condemn the Russian government's bounty on the heads of USA servicemen. He also dodged the draft due to bone spurs whilst continuing to compete in baseball, American football, squash and tennis, then called the late Senator John McCain, who refused to be offered preferential treatment (release) from the "Hanoi Hilton" (where he suffered torture that left him with life-long disabilities) because his father was Commander-in-Chief, Pacific Command (CINCPAC), a loser for being caught. I fail to understand your reasoning. |
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CatholicLeft
Labour
2032 posts until I was "accidentally" deleted.
Posts: 6,722
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Post by CatholicLeft on Oct 29, 2020 3:50:59 GMT
You are displaying a lack of understanding of how much Kamala Harris is disliked by the left in general for her actions as the DA in San Francisco and AG of California. She would comfortably fit into the Liberal Democrats or even on the liberal wing of the Conservative Party. I wouldn't vote for the Biden/Harris ticket not least because of Kamala Harris, who I think is a vapid self-publicist and no supporter of criminal justice reform. I disagree, she'd be a Blairite over here. She's to the right of Chuka Ummana, who is in your party. |
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Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Oct 29, 2020 4:20:46 GMT
OK, I just did a wee exercise, I sat and wrote out pros and cons under each candidates name. Biden has 14 pros and 14 cons, Trump has 21 pros and 16 cons. On that basis I'm tentatively voting Trump in the poll. If I think of anymore it may change. The support of former military leaders and support from police unions is a big reason for this vote. The number of former military leaders and national security officials of both parties opposing the present incumbent is huge. He has been attacked for retweeting the lie that Osama bin Ladin was not killed and that Joe Biden is responsible for arranging the illing of the Navy Seal team who "failed" to kill bin Ladin. President Trump has failed to condemn the Russian government's bounty on the heads of USA servicemen. He also dodged the draft due to bone spurs whilst continuing to compete in baseball, American football, squash and tennis, then called the late Senator John McCain, who refused to be offered preferential treatment (release) from the "Hanoi Hilton" (where he suffered torture that left him with life-long disabilities) because his father was Commander-in-Chief, Pacific Command (CINCPAC), a loser for being caught. I fail to understand your reasoning. Don't really have a lot of time, got to get up by 11am, but I'll quickly list the pros and cons I got for each so you can understand my reasoning better. Biden: Pros - Civil, not belligerent, doesn't appeal to racists, ends the psycho drama, support from some of those who've worked with Trump, climate action, better for America's image, backed UK over Falklands, investigate foreign influence, will listen to scientists, working class, inoffensive, affable. Cons - socialist support, BLM, soft on rioters, anti police, woke nonsense, might not last full term, hair sniffing, Tara Reade, China/Hunter allegations, "you ain't black", can't repeat this here, supported by anti Israel people, The Squad, Epstein's connections with Dems and anti Brexit. Trump: Pros - support from former military leaders, police unions, labour unions, harsh on CCP, not anti-Russian, tax cuts, pro British, peace deals, NATO reform, pisses off the right people, puts a stopper on globalism, stood up to Epstein at Maralago, pro brexit, Korean negotiations, standing against communism, action taken against critical theory, minority employment, support from fellow LGBTQ conservatives, social media reform and moved embassy to Jerusalem. Cons - soft on racism, "both sides", adulterer, bit of a creep in the past, mask sceptical, amoral, belligerent, Access Hollywood, undermined some democratic norms, doesn't really care about his supporters, psycho drama, Stormy Daniels, anti Fauchi, nepotism, self interested. This is where I'm at. Totally agree with you on McCain. He's a total hero in my book. I supported him in '08, even though I was a Labour member at the time, and, for me, he remains a premier American Conservative. I can't just base stuff off that though. Also, I find those attacking him over Vietnam disingenuous. Not only would they not want to go to Vietnam, but if they could get out of it, they would've. It was an immoral and stupid war and perhaps Trump saw that. I do not believe he's an idiot like so many do. |
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 12,012
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Post by Khunanup on Oct 29, 2020 4:23:56 GMT
I disagree, she'd be a Blairite over here. She's to the right of Chuka Ummana, who is in your party. Exactly. |
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Post by ibfc on Oct 29, 2020 7:05:12 GMT
Trump for sure. GOP straight down the ticket.
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