cj
Socialist
These fragments I have shored against my ruins
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Post by cj on Aug 22, 2020 23:42:13 GMT
Bolshoi Eck is now claiming that Poland is about to invade. Not sure Poland has invaded anywhere for a long time. I think the last time had winged Hussars in the van
Edit: Although an afterthought had me check, I seemed to recall Poland kept using Cavalry a long time. I was right Wikipedia tell me the 1st Warsaw Cavalry Division was disbanded in 1947!
On a more serious note, it looks like Lukashenko is cos-playing to try and clutch any straw to distract his masses and foster some national unity.
Surely he doesn't think this will work, any fool knows if troops are going to move in it'd be from the other direction.
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Post by Peter Wilkinson on Aug 23, 2020 10:52:21 GMT
Bolshoi Eck is now claiming that Poland is about to invade. Not sure Poland has invaded anywhere for a long time. , I suspect - not a precedent which anyone today will be keen to remember. Before that, presumably, the various border wars of 1919 to 1921 - as a result of which, of course, Polish territory included a large proportion of present-day Belarus until 1939. The current Polish government is probably the least unlikely one of the past 75 years to contemplate invading a neighbouring country. But that doesn't mean it is even remotely likely to do so - at least, except as part of a NATO action which currently seems inconceivable unless a Russian invasion of Poland and/or Lithuania through Belarus seems imminent. |
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CatholicLeft
Labour
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Post by CatholicLeft on Aug 23, 2020 16:50:04 GMT
Another huge demonstration in Minsk despite the threats and heavy security presence. RT news is broadcasting it so we can see that Putin is ot going to strain to help Lukashenko.
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Aug 23, 2020 16:50:55 GMT
Helicopter just landed at the Palace of Independence, official residence of President Lukashenko. Speculation that he's doing a runner.
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Post by finsobruce on Aug 23, 2020 18:12:06 GMT
Helicopter just landed at the Palace of Independence, official residence of President Lukashenko. Speculation that he's doing a runner. Does Prince Andrew still have a helicopter pilot's licence? |
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Aug 23, 2020 18:13:21 GMT
Helicopter just landed at the Palace of Independence, official residence of President Lukashenko. Speculation that he's doing a runner. Delete the word "don't"... |
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johng
Labour
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Post by johng on Aug 23, 2020 18:34:44 GMT
There are some ridiculous videos of Lukashenko on that helicopter in body armour carry an automatic rifle. His youngest son is with him (obviously).
More huge crowds in Minsk again.
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swanarcadian
Conservative & Unionist
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Post by swanarcadian on Aug 23, 2020 19:11:56 GMT
There are some ridiculous videos of Lukashenko on that helicopter in body armour carry an automatic rifle. His youngest son is with him (obviously). More huge crowds in Minsk again. A Ceaușescu in reverse? Get shot first (wearing a bulletproof vest), then return to the presidential palace by helicopter? Give it another 21 years and he'll give a great speech which will put his personal popularity at an all time high. |
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CatholicLeft
Labour
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Post by CatholicLeft on Aug 26, 2020 19:45:13 GMT
Toby Young writing in support of Lukashenko For all those hypocrites condemning Young for writing this I'd point out that the totalitarian systems being implemented in Melbourne right now are far worse than anything Lukashenko is doing, but that gets a pass from them because that's in the 'good cause' of 'public health' Really? The torture of protesters by the special forces in Belarus is far less onerous than what is happening in Melbourne right now? The arrest of those legitimately challenging a fraudulent election is less totalitarian than anything happening in Melbourne? Give your head a shake. |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Aug 26, 2020 20:31:54 GMT
Really? The torture of protesters by the special forces in Belarus is far less onerous than what is happening in Melbourne right now? The arrest of those legitimately challenging a fraudulent election is less totalitarian than anything happening in Melbourne? Give your head a shake. by being put under house arrest in the name of "public health", allowed out only for Government permitted work or 1 hour exercise, exactly like prisoners. Recently residents of some Melbourne tower blocks were shut in completely, not allowed out for any reason whatsover, now something almost as bad is being done to every man, woman and child in the State Those in Victoria who even attempt to organise protests against this tyranny are being arrested. Please explain what Lukashenko is doing that is worse than that. Er, isn't that pretty much what we did in March? Didn't feel like torture. |
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cj
Socialist
These fragments I have shored against my ruins
Posts: 3,285
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Post by cj on Aug 26, 2020 20:42:02 GMT
Toby Young writing in support of Lukashenko For all those hypocrites condemning Young for writing this I'd point out that the totalitarian systems being implemented in Melbourne right now are far worse than anything Lukashenko is doing, but that gets a pass from them because that's in the 'good cause' of 'public health' No they're not and yes. |
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CatholicLeft
Labour
2032 posts until I was "accidentally" deleted.
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Post by CatholicLeft on Aug 26, 2020 21:27:25 GMT
Really? The torture of protesters by the special forces in Belarus is far less onerous than what is happening in Melbourne right now? The arrest of those legitimately challenging a fraudulent election is less totalitarian than anything happening in Melbourne? Give your head a shake. The entire State of Victoria is being tortured by being put under house arrest in the name of "public health", allowed out only for Government permitted work or 1 hour exercise, exactly like prisoners. Recently residents of some Melbourne tower blocks were shut in completely, not allowed out for any reason whatsover, now something almost as bad is being done to every man, woman and child in the State Those in Victoria who even attempt to organise protests against this tyranny are being arrested. Please explain what Lukashenko is doing that is worse than that. Seriously? I have spent hours sat with medics who were traumatised by their inability to offer anything other than love to the dying (and that was a powerful thing). On the CCUs and ICUs , medical staff were reduced to being curators of death, holding hands (through very thick gloves), trying to smile and reassure through masks and screens. On non-covid wards, the sick never saw a face without a mask or were touched (are touched) without a glove. I spent days with people who never saw their loved ones again, who desperately wanted only to touch, but were not able. I ask you, I was not allowed to show a woman in her 90's, none of whose children were able to visit her due to their own health problems, the basic human dignity of a handshake or the look on my face (I showed her what I looked like on a very cleansed mobile); how would you have coped? I have anointed the sick and the dying using a cotton bud, given the apostolic pardon with my hands raised high above heads I would normally touch (even though I wore medical gloves), spent hours on phones passing messages. I promise you, the inconvenience visited on Melbourne is worth it compared to the hell of never kissing, holding hands with, or seeing your loved one again. The Belarus comparison is beneath contempt. |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Aug 26, 2020 21:38:44 GMT
Dr Kipper has spoken.
We must give his views appropriate weight.
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CatholicLeft
Labour
2032 posts until I was "accidentally" deleted.
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Post by CatholicLeft on Aug 26, 2020 21:52:29 GMT
Er, isn't that pretty much what we did in March? What the UK Government did in March was bad enough. For those that were genuinely terrified by the propaganda into not leaving their home for weeks on end the psychological damage was and is real enough and was a form of torture. For those kicked out of hospital, blocked and still being blocked from having vital medical treatment that is a form of torture. Those sent to nursing homes to die with their loved ones banned from their side under the name of public health that is a form of torture. Those loved ones banned from having funerals that is a form of torture, everyone isolated in their homes subject to a barrage of government fear inducing propaganda. For those whose businesses were devastated by the lockdown and were prevented from going out to work to save them the pain is all too real Now at least the Government allowed a range of exceptions to its lockdown rules that you could drive a horse and cart through and deliberately avoided heavy handed enforcement, anyone who hadn't been led by propaganda induced terror into locking down could still leave their house whenever they want. That is not the case in Melbourne today where the house imprisonment is involuntary and universal in a way it never was in England I think part of the issue is that you believe this yourself. Ask yourself what would you think about Government that brought in the kind of measures that the Victorian government is doing purely for the sake of political control and who justified these measures by an entirely fictitious disease. I would genuinely like to ask you what your reaction would be to a government in Asia or Africa that did exactly that. Would you not consider it to be the most horrendous abuse of the population? Unlike you, I suspect, I have watched people die of this entirely unfictitious disease. Take a break. |
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Post by independentukip on Aug 26, 2020 22:11:39 GMT
The entire State of Victoria is being tortured by being put under house arrest in the name of "public health", allowed out only for Government permitted work or 1 hour exercise, exactly like prisoners. Recently residents of some Melbourne tower blocks were shut in completely, not allowed out for any reason whatsover, now something almost as bad is being done to every man, woman and child in the State Those in Victoria who even attempt to organise protests against this tyranny are being arrested. Please explain what Lukashenko is doing that is worse than that. Er, isn't that pretty much what we did in March? Didn't feel like torture. It would have to some of those who committed suicide because of it. And the Victorian Government is fully aware its actions will cause suicide because its a more extreme version of what was done here in March. |
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Post by independentukip on Aug 26, 2020 22:15:48 GMT
Dr Kipper has spoken. We must give his views appropriate weight. Dr Kipper should end his label as a Conservative pronto as he appears to have some idea of the shit storm that is very rapidly coming for them. |
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Post by independentukip on Aug 26, 2020 22:36:28 GMT
The entire State of Victoria is being tortured by being put under house arrest in the name of "public health", allowed out only for Government permitted work or 1 hour exercise, exactly like prisoners. Recently residents of some Melbourne tower blocks were shut in completely, not allowed out for any reason whatsover, now something almost as bad is being done to every man, woman and child in the State Those in Victoria who even attempt to organise protests against this tyranny are being arrested. Please explain what Lukashenko is doing that is worse than that. Seriously? I have spent hours sat with medics who were traumatised by their inability to offer anything other than love to the dying (and that was a powerful thing). On the CCUs and ICUs , medical staff were reduced to being curators of death, holding hands (through very thick gloves), trying to smile and reassure through masks and screens. On non-covid wards, the sick never saw a face without a mask or were touched (are touched) without a glove. I spent days with people who never saw their loved ones again, who desperately wanted only to touch, but were not able. I ask you, I was not allowed to show a woman in her 90's, none of whose children were able to visit her due to their own health problems, the basic human dignity of a handshake or the look on my face (I showed her what I looked like on a very cleansed mobile); how would you have coped? I have anointed the sick and the dying using a cotton bud, given the apostolic pardon with my hands raised high above heads I would normally touch (even though I wore medical gloves), spent hours on phones passing messages. I promise you, the inconvenience visited on Melbourne is worth it compared to the hell of never kissing, holding hands with, or seeing your loved one again. The Belarus comparison is beneath contempt. You write, very emotively, as if you have an objection to the things you have experienced but as far as I'm aware are fully supportive of those same things being enforced in Victoria. For example mandatory face coverings & maintaining 1.5m distance in care facilites, even for those at the end of their life. Never kissing, holding hands with and, unless you can justify that a visit is essential within the restrictions, seeing your loved ones again ARE what you regard as simple 'inconvenience' for Victorians with loved ones in care facilities. Up to $20,000 fine for holding your loved ones hand. Not that any of this has a lot to do with the situation in Belarus. www.dhhs.vic.gov.au/visiting-care-facilities-covid-19 |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Aug 26, 2020 22:46:26 GMT
Er, isn't that pretty much what we did in March? Didn't feel like torture. And the Victorian Government is fully aware its actions will cause suicide because its a more extreme version of what was done here in March. That may, or may not, have been the case. But I think we are drifting away from Belarus. |
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Post by bjornhattan on Aug 26, 2020 22:49:12 GMT
Er, isn't that pretty much what we did in March? What the UK Government did in March was bad enough. For those that were genuinely terrified by the propaganda into not leaving their home for weeks on end the psychological damage was and is real enough and was a form of torture. For those kicked out of hospital, blocked and still being blocked from having vital medical treatment that is a form of torture. Those sent to nursing homes to die with their loved ones banned from their side under the name of public health that is a form of torture. Those loved ones banned from having funerals that is a form of torture, everyone isolated in their homes subject to a barrage of government fear inducing propaganda. For those whose businesses were devastated by the lockdown and were prevented from going out to work to save them the pain is all too real Now at least the Government allowed a range of exceptions to its lockdown rules that you could drive a horse and cart through and deliberately avoided heavy handed enforcement, anyone who hadn't been led by propaganda induced terror into locking down could still leave their house whenever they want. That is not the case in Melbourne today where the house imprisonment is involuntary and universal in a way it never was in England I don't want to seem like a killjoy, but could I ask that you remove the phrase I've highlighted (now removed)? There have been concerns raised about it, and I think it crosses the line into what ProBoards would consider misinformation, so not removing it could cause problems for the forum as a whole. I agree that the measures seen in Victoria are absolutely horrific, and will cause suffering for hundreds of thousands if not millions. We both know I personally strongly disapprove of how many governments have handled this crisis. But it isn't the case that the disease is made up - there's hysteria around it, but the facts are that it can kill you, and quite possibly will if you're vulnerable. And we can't have statements like that on the forum, or we risk losing the whole thing. |
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Post by AdminSTB on Aug 26, 2020 22:52:30 GMT
Er, isn't that pretty much what we did in March? What the UK Government did in March was bad enough. For those that were genuinely terrified by the propaganda into not leaving their home for weeks on end the psychological damage was and is real enough and was a form of torture. For those kicked out of hospital, blocked and still being blocked from having vital medical treatment that is a form of torture. Those sent to nursing homes to die with their loved ones banned from their side under the name of public health that is a form of torture. Those loved ones banned from having funerals that is a form of torture, everyone isolated in their homes subject to a barrage of government fear inducing propaganda. For those whose businesses were devastated by the lockdown and were prevented from going out to work to save them the pain is all too real Now at least the Government allowed a range of exceptions to its lockdown rules that you could drive a horse and cart through and deliberately avoided heavy handed enforcement, anyone who hadn't been led by propaganda induced terror into locking down could still leave their house whenever they want. That is not the case in Melbourne today where the house imprisonment is involuntary and universal in a way it never was in England I think part of the issue is that you believe this yourself. Ask yourself what would you think about Government that brought in the kind of measures that the Victorian government is doing purely for the sake of political control and who justified these measures by an entirely fictitious disease. I would genuinely like to ask you what your reaction would be to a government in Asia or Africa that did exactly that. Would you not consider it to be the most horrendous abuse of the population?I have edited this post and removed the section currently stricken through in the quote. Our hosts, ProBoards, have made it very clear that they will not tolerate the distribution of any misinformation concerning the COVID-19 pandemic on their service, and this includes outright denial of the contagion. I'm no more happy about the response given to this crisis by state actors than a lot of people here and without, but for the sake of not endangering this place's existence, everyone please put a check on your rhetoric. |
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