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Post by jollyroger93 on Apr 26, 2021 16:02:33 GMT
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Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Apr 26, 2021 16:07:07 GMT
So no cut through, as of yet at least.
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Post by jollyroger93 on Apr 26, 2021 16:16:46 GMT
So no cut through, as of yet at least. He’s going to get away with the bullshit he’s spouted because life is getting back to normal, the economy is looking Up and people are happy. The story will be old news by Friday. That doesn’t however excuse the fact the Johnson is a chimp.
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Post by justin124 on Apr 26, 2021 17:05:57 GMT
So no cut through, as of yet at least. He’s going to get away with the bullshit he’s spouted because life is getting back to normal, the economy is looking Up and people are happy. The story will be old news by Friday. That doesn’t however excuse the fact the Johnson is a chimp. I have always seen him as a Herman Goering type figure. Goering was seen as a funny clownish character- very unlike other Nazi leaders.
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Post by jollyroger93 on Apr 26, 2021 17:25:52 GMT
He’s going to get away with the bullshit he’s spouted because life is getting back to normal, the economy is looking Up and people are happy. The story will be old news by Friday. That doesn’t however excuse the fact the Johnson is a chimp. I have always seen him as a Herman Goering type figure. Goering was seen as a funny clownish character- very unlike other Nazi leaders. I mean I wouldn’t exactly compare him to a Nazi...
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Apr 26, 2021 17:30:11 GMT
He’s going to get away with the bullshit he’s spouted because life is getting back to normal, the economy is looking Up and people are happy. The story will be old news by Friday. That doesn’t however excuse the fact the Johnson is a chimp. I have always seen him as a Herman Goering type figure. Goering was seen as a funny clownish character- very unlike other Nazi leaders. I think there can comment better than me, but my impression is that the clown image did not arise until late on, possibly abetted by Allied propaganda. He was a very senior Nazi who might easily have been Fuhrer if Hitler had dropped dead in June1940. His activities in the state government of Prussia before 1933 was nothing to laugh at. (Also, the rise of the Luftwaffe from scratch to being one of the world's most powerful air forces, far outperforming the RAF on ground support and the French in everything, in just six years, is objectively pretty impressive and he was at least nominally in charge.)
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Post by justin124 on Apr 26, 2021 17:59:59 GMT
I have always seen him as a Herman Goering type figure. Goering was seen as a funny clownish character- very unlike other Nazi leaders. I think there can comment better than me, but my impression is that the clown image did not arise until late on, possibly abetted by Allied propaganda. He was a very senior Nazi who might easily have been Fuhrer if Hitler had dropped dead in June1940. His activities in the state government of Prussia before 1933 was nothing to laugh at. (Also, the rise of the Luftwaffe from scratch to being one of the world's most powerful air forces, far outperforming the RAF on ground support and the French in everything, in just six years, is objectively pretty impressive and he was at least nominally in charge.) I don't wish to suggest that Goering was anything other than a nasty piece of work - as indeed I believe Johnson to be. He was responsible for establishing the Gestapo in 1933.He did,though, connect with the German wider public in a way that other Nazi leaders did not - and was widely seen as 'the fat, funny guy'. He was not the most evil of the Nazi gang - comparable to Hitler, Himmler and Heydrich - and had he been Fuhrer rather than Hitler, there would have been no attack on Poland in September 1939 or the USSR in June 1941. He opposed both - but proceeded to carry out Hitler's orders.
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Apr 26, 2021 18:37:33 GMT
I think there can comment better than me, but my impression is that the clown image did not arise until late on, possibly abetted by Allied propaganda. He was a very senior Nazi who might easily have been Fuhrer if Hitler had dropped dead in June1940. His activities in the state government of Prussia before 1933 was nothing to laugh at. (Also, the rise of the Luftwaffe from scratch to being one of the world's most powerful air forces, far outperforming the RAF on ground support and the French in everything, in just six years, is objectively pretty impressive and he was at least nominally in charge.) I don't wish to suggest that Goering was anything other than a nasty piece of work - as indeed I believe Johnson to be. He was responsible for establishing the Gestapo in 1933.He did,though, connect with the German wider public in a way that other Nazi leaders did not - and was widely seen as 'the fat, funny guy'. He was not the most evil of the Nazi gang - comparable to Hitler, Himmler and Heydrich - and had he been Fuhrer rather than Hitler, there would have been no attack on Poland in September 1939 or the USSR in June 1941. He opposed both - but proceeded to carry out Hitler's orders. Ah, I see what you mean. Mind you, I think it is unwise to draw parallels between Nazi leaders and contemporary politicians unless you are very, very specific about the nature of the comparison. Generally it generates more heat than light.
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Post by carolus on May 3, 2021 16:03:33 GMT
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Post by robert1 on May 4, 2021 8:36:17 GMT
Thank you to Adam in Stroud for your thoughtful comments re comparisons of any modern day politicans with the Nazis.
All I would add is that my father acted as a translator at trials of Germans after the war (not the first Nuremburg trial). Such comparisons are unacceptable to many of us for reasons people should understand before they write as they have.
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lefty
Socialist
Posts: 845
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Post by lefty on May 10, 2021 21:12:44 GMT
James O'Brien there with the hard hitting expert political analysis....
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lefty
Socialist
Posts: 845
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Post by lefty on May 10, 2021 23:43:54 GMT
Some polling on Johnson and Starmer head to head from the same poll
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 36,657
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Post by The Bishop on May 11, 2021 10:25:33 GMT
That whole "20 points ahead" business has to be one of the most revealing things about centrism's mindset in recent years. Showing how little they actually understand the voters they claim to be uniquely well placed to win elections for.
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European Lefty
Labour
Can be bribed with salted liquorice
Posts: 5,617
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Post by European Lefty on May 11, 2021 10:29:31 GMT
That whole "20 points ahead" business has to be one of the most revealing things about centrism's mindset in recent years. Showing how little they actually understand the voters they claim to be uniquely well placed to win elections for. Of course the Corbynistas who bring it up every time Starmer is behind in a poll are just as irritating
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 36,657
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Post by The Bishop on May 11, 2021 10:30:57 GMT
That whole "20 points ahead" business has to be one of the most revealing things about centrism's mindset in recent years. Showing how little they actually understand the voters they claim to be uniquely well placed to win elections for. Of course the Corbynistas who bring it up every time Starmer is behind in a poll are just as irritating Well, no argument there. The forever wars are just so destructive and depressing.
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cogload
Lib Dem
I jumped in the river and what did I see...
Posts: 8,208
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Post by cogload on May 17, 2021 17:25:41 GMT
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Post by justin124 on May 24, 2021 16:46:16 GMT
Con 43% (+1) Lab 33% (-) LD 10% (-) Grn 5% (-1) Ref 3% (+1) SNP 4% (-)
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johng
Labour
Posts: 4,523
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Post by johng on May 24, 2021 19:41:02 GMT
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Post by carlton43 on May 24, 2021 22:17:04 GMT
Don't worry chaps. Things can only get better.
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timmullen1
Labour
Closing account as BossMan declines to respond to messages seeking support.
Posts: 11,823
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Post by timmullen1 on May 24, 2021 22:34:56 GMT
Don't worry chaps. Things can only get better. Well the serious, and obvious, point is that the two with the highest name recognition are the two longest serving, and both actual former Cabinet members. Two things come to mind, are there any comparable figures to previous Shadow Cabinets of either Party (hands up, I didn’t know until reading her Wikipedia page yesterday that Cheryl Gillan had been Shadow Welsh Secretary), and how do actual Cabinet members stack up; wild guess, but I suspect more people can identify Matt Hancock than Oliver Dowden.
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