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Post by curiousliberal on Aug 17, 2020 23:03:55 GMT
Guido fails to understand the differences between parliamentary and presidential systems. A parliamentary system which had no role & wasn't even sitting when the Dear Leader of the regime 'delayed' the election. Sounds rather like a presidential act. Both the opposition and her main coalition party agreed with her prior to the delay, which was still within the terms of the Parliament. |
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Sibboleth
Labour
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Post by Sibboleth on Aug 17, 2020 23:14:32 GMT
You might wish to check what the polls look like before accusing Ardern of acting out of an ulterior motive.
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Aug 17, 2020 23:26:22 GMT
I think this falls into the same category as when the 2001 UK general election was delayed for a month.
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timmullen1
Labour
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Post by timmullen1 on Aug 17, 2020 23:40:48 GMT
And that Trump proposed a delay to a date unspecified whereas Ardern gave an alternative date from the get-go and stressed there would be no delay beyond the alternative date. I will be astonished if Ardern doesn't 'delay' the election again. More Covid cases, more deaths, much more unemployment, misery, suicide, anger and suppression of freedom & humanity are all guaranteed between now and the supposed new date. Ardern has the authority to advise the Governor General (who could decline) to move the election to October as it’s within the three year life of a Parliament enshrined in the Constitution Act; moving it beyond October would require a new Act of Parliament which, given that the Leader of the Opposition called for a delay over a week ago, and at least one other Party (NZ First) also belatedly called for a delay, she would be likely to get should she so wish, although again the Governor General (technically) could decline to give the Bill Royal Assent and insist on the October date. Whatever happens, beyond October she cannot act unilaterally so if you’re “astonished” it will be because a majority of the New Zealand Parliament is behaving in a far more responsible way than you would seem to. |
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timmullen1
Labour
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Post by timmullen1 on Aug 17, 2020 23:50:26 GMT
Guido fails to understand the differences between parliamentary and presidential systems. A parliamentary system which had no role & wasn't even sitting when the Dear Leader of the regime 'delayed' the election. Sounds rather like a presidential act. If anybody acted in a Presidential way it was Her Majesty’s Governor General who has the authority to decline a Prime Minister’s request to delay a General Election, and you’re statement is even more bizarre given that two of the Party’s challenging Ardern’s Labour Party, including the main opposition, had already called for the election to be delayed. |
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Post by independentukip on Aug 18, 2020 9:33:59 GMT
I will be astonished if Ardern doesn't 'delay' the election again. More Covid cases, more deaths, much more unemployment, misery, suicide, anger and suppression of freedom & humanity are all guaranteed between now and the supposed new date. Ardern has the authority to advise the Governor General (who could decline) to move the election to October as it’s within the three year life of a Parliament enshrined in the Constitution Act; moving it beyond October would require a new Act of Parliament which, given that the Leader of the Opposition called for a delay over a week ago, and at least one other Party (NZ First) also belatedly called for a delay, she would be likely to get should she so wish, although again the Governor General (technically) could decline to give the Bill Royal Assent and insist on the October date. Whatever happens, beyond October she cannot act unilaterally so if you’re “astonished” it will be because a majority of the New Zealand Parliament is behaving in a far more responsible way than you would seem to. You're already moving the goalposts for this former democracy from it being stressed there will be no further delay to the election to saying that it merely requires an act of parliament for the election to be delayed to some unknown time in the future. That is not democracy and the people would be entitled to remove all those complicit with it. |
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timmullen1
Labour
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Post by timmullen1 on Aug 18, 2020 10:10:04 GMT
Ardern has the authority to advise the Governor General (who could decline) to move the election to October as it’s within the three year life of a Parliament enshrined in the Constitution Act; moving it beyond October would require a new Act of Parliament which, given that the Leader of the Opposition called for a delay over a week ago, and at least one other Party (NZ First) also belatedly called for a delay, she would be likely to get should she so wish, although again the Governor General (technically) could decline to give the Bill Royal Assent and insist on the October date. Whatever happens, beyond October she cannot act unilaterally so if you’re “astonished” it will be because a majority of the New Zealand Parliament is behaving in a far more responsible way than you would seem to. You're already moving the goalposts for this former democracy from it being stressed there will be no further delay to the election to saying that it merely requires an act of parliament for the election to be delayed to some unknown time in the future. That is not democracy and the people would be entitled to remove all those complicit with it. I’ve actually done some more research, and the Constitution Act 1986 sets the maximum length of a Parliament as three years and two months from the issuance of writs for the previous election, which actually takes you to 8th November working back to the date writs were issued in 2017. The people are indeed entitled to remove all those complicit in any delay of the election, just as they’re entitled to remove them for their actions over the last three years, but opinion polling would suggest they are a lot more mature and sensible than your good self, and are focussed on defeating the coronavirus rather than your moronic bleating which has no basis in fact or constitutionality. |
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dundas
Non-Aligned
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Post by dundas on Aug 18, 2020 10:57:29 GMT
Ad hominem attacks resorted to as you know there is truth in what's being said. Opposition has had restricted ability to campaign and rally whatever way you slice it so that has hamstrung opposition parties into requesting delays.
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
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Post by The Bishop on Aug 18, 2020 11:19:22 GMT
Ad hominem attacks resorted to as you know there is truth in what's being said The poster being replied to used little other than ad hominem attacks, but I suppose that's OK because they are on "your" side? |
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dundas
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Post by dundas on Aug 18, 2020 11:31:52 GMT
I only saw one example of playing the man, not the ball and it was the use of the word "moronic". Non-libellous attacks on the political establishment are fair game in my view; personal insults are not.
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jamie
Top Poster
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Post by jamie on Aug 18, 2020 11:47:51 GMT
I will be astonished if Ardern doesn't 'delay' the election again. More Covid cases, more deaths, much more unemployment, misery, suicide, anger and suppression of freedom & humanity are all guaranteed between now and the supposed new date. Given that Ardern wanted the election on schedule but her opponents forced her to delay it, I’m not so sure. |
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Post by independentukip on Aug 18, 2020 11:49:31 GMT
You're already moving the goalposts for this former democracy from it being stressed there will be no further delay to the election to saying that it merely requires an act of parliament for the election to be delayed to some unknown time in the future. That is not democracy and the people would be entitled to remove all those complicit with it. I’ve actually done some more research, and the Constitution Act 1986 sets the maximum length of a Parliament as three years and two months from the issuance of writs for the previous election, which actually takes you to 8th November working back to the date writs were issued in 2017. The people are indeed entitled to remove all those complicit in any delay of the election, just as they’re entitled to remove them for their actions over the last three years, but opinion polling would suggest they are a lot more mature and sensible than your good self, and are focussed on defeating the coronavirus rather than your moronic bleating which has no basis in fact or constitutionality. So yoo've moved from September to October and now to November. And with your admirable knowledge of the New Zealand Constitution you will know that the parliament can vote to amend the constitution causing the elections to be suspended beyond that if they so decide. As Covid 19 cannot be "defeated", which you and they all well know, this looks to be a permanent war justifying the permanent cessation of elections. Whilst the people are standing for it now, according to the opinion polls, the time will come when they will not and if I am right that parliament will not permit another election the people will have to remove their oppressors by force. |
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Post by independentukip on Aug 18, 2020 11:55:35 GMT
Ad hominem attacks resorted to as you know there is truth in what's being said The poster being replied to used little other than ad hominem attacks, but I suppose that's OK because they are on "your" side? I don't know who's side dundas is one but based on the opinion polls and my opposition to the election 'delay' my side must (if the old left & right had useful meaning in the circumstances) be with Ardern and Labour. If the election took place and Ardern wins big than that is democracy. No election is not democracy. |
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,925
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Post by The Bishop on Aug 18, 2020 12:02:15 GMT
I will be astonished if Ardern doesn't 'delay' the election again. More Covid cases, more deaths, much more unemployment, misery, suicide, anger and suppression of freedom & humanity are all guaranteed between now and the supposed new date. Given that Ardern wanted the election on schedule but her opponents forced her to delay it, I’m not so sure. Can't start bringing actual facts into this, where will it end? |
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Post by independentukip on Aug 18, 2020 13:27:08 GMT
Given that Ardern wanted the election on schedule but her opponents forced her to delay it, I’m not so sure. Can't start bringing actual facts into this, where will it end? If Ardern was so keen on having the election the New Zealand parliament could have voted with Labour showing its democratic colours accordingly. |
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Post by finsobruce on Aug 18, 2020 13:44:54 GMT
Can't start bringing actual facts into this, where will it end? If Ardern was so keen on having the election the New Zealand parliament could have voted with Labour showing its democratic colours accordingly. Never mind all that - this is the really big story from New Zealand
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timmullen1
Labour
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Post by timmullen1 on Aug 18, 2020 13:45:54 GMT
I’ve actually done some more research, and the Constitution Act 1986 sets the maximum length of a Parliament as three years and two months from the issuance of writs for the previous election, which actually takes you to 8th November working back to the date writs were issued in 2017. The people are indeed entitled to remove all those complicit in any delay of the election, just as they’re entitled to remove them for their actions over the last three years, but opinion polling would suggest they are a lot more mature and sensible than your good self, and are focussed on defeating the coronavirus rather than your moronic bleating which has no basis in fact or constitutionality. So yoo've moved from September to October and now to November. And with your admirable knowledge of the New Zealand Constitution you will know that the parliament can vote to amend the constitution causing the elections to be suspended beyond that if they so decide. As Covid 19 cannot be "defeated", which you and they all well know, this looks to be a permanent war justifying the permanent cessation of elections. Whilst the people are standing for it now, according to the opinion polls, the time will come when they will not and if I am right that parliament will not permit another election the people will have to remove their oppressors by force. I haven’t moved from September, had I been a New Zealand politico I wouldn’t have gone for September as government’s calling early elections tend to lose. I went to October simply because the NZ Parliament website says the length of a Parliament is three years, however doing a bit of research, i.e. reading the Constitution Act, turned up that it’s three years and two weeks from the issuing of writs for the previous election, pushing into early November. Both sources were also clear that the Constitution Act is amendable by legislation. It’s also a pretty evidence-less and nonsensical idea that you have that the New Zealand opposition parties would vote to amend the Constitution Act to postpone elections in perpetuity, certainly the National Party and ACT have no self interest in such a scenario, and I doubt that Arden could keep her coalition on board for long. That’s not taking into account the Governor General who has a legal duty to enforce the country’s constitution. Your projections for Covid in New Zealand also seem out of touch with reality (what isn’t?); after the Wellington spike the government’s actions have reduced the number of active cases at close of business yesterday to nine, only two of whom are hospitalised (per the Ministry of Health), so, again, the justification for repeated delays isn’t there as it would be obvious to anyone that an election can be organised and held in another 100+ day window of the country being Covid free, or even the electoral system amended by Parliament to allow for an all mail election (which I presume in your bizarre fantasy imagination would be rife with corruption - perhaps they should defund the Post service). You make an extremely bold assumption that I know that Covid 19 can’t be defeated, depending on your definition of defeated I may have to disagree; I do believe that it can be contained with a vaccine that still looks on course to be available early next year, which is the feeling of the three medical professionals in my family working on treatment of the virus. |
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Post by froome on Aug 18, 2020 16:17:56 GMT
If Ardern was so keen on having the election the New Zealand parliament could have voted with Labour showing its democratic colours accordingly. Never mind all that - this is the really big story from New Zealand Wonderful. He looks remarkably happy in all those photos. |
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dundas
Non-Aligned
Hope Not Hate is Lumpen MI5
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Post by dundas on Aug 19, 2020 19:46:29 GMT
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timmullen1
Labour
Closing account as BossMan declines to respond to messages seeking support.
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Post by timmullen1 on Aug 19, 2020 23:06:50 GMT
Interesting interpretation: the Court has actually ruled that the lockdown was justified and necessary but that the Prime Minister wasn’t authorised to announce it, only the Director General of Health was for the first nine days. Yeah, truly heinous crime, life without parole is the only solution. |
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