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Post by timrollpickering on Oct 18, 2020 13:12:11 GMT
Yes, that's exactly it. The sole duty of a returning officer is to ensure that the writ is answered by returning a member to Parliament. Well a little commented problem is who actually is the Returning Officer. There's too much "Deputy" and "Acting" in the system. The suggestion kicking around that the head of electoral services should be the actual RO with the power to delegate announcing the declaration to a mayor seems reasonable. IIUC the New Zealand referendum results won't be available until the end of the week so let's see how they put up with that. |
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Post by minionofmidas on Oct 18, 2020 13:50:49 GMT
In the Welsh and Scottish system, not only are there unconnected regional lists, D'Hondt is used, and parties get to keep overhang seats without compensation to the others to make it proportional - as the size of Parliament is fixed these overhang seats are actually subtracted from other parties' due. All of this matters little in Scotland because there are enough topup seats, but it fairly majorly distorts the party composition of the Senedd. This has another effect besides the one on proportionality, though: the size of the Labour group is largely independent from their list vote and is instead determined by the constituency results in the marginal seats (except those in the Mid & West region). When Labour hold Cardiff North it's literally an extra seat for them and one seat fewer to the opposition. This is a feature totally alien to mmp. Alien to the German sort, which the Kiwis merely copied. Not exactly. There are no compensatory seats in NZ for instance, though there (potentially) are overhang seats. And no one in their right mind would copy the strange connected state lists of the German system or the very weird things the CDU (with FDP or SPD sidekicks) has been doing to obey-but-not-comply the Bundesverfassungsgericht's verdicts in recent years (but that was after NZ introduced mmp). |
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neilm
Non-Aligned
Posts: 25,023
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Post by neilm on Oct 18, 2020 14:46:16 GMT
Yes, that's exactly it. The sole duty of a returning officer is to ensure that the writ is answered by returning a member to Parliament. Well a little commented problem is who actually is the Returning Officer. There's too much "Deputy" and "Acting" in the system. The suggestion kicking around that the head of electoral services should be the actual RO with the power to delegate announcing the declaration to a mayor seems reasonable. Absolutely not, we should not envisage a situation where officers delegate to elected members. |
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timmullen1
Labour
Closing account as BossMan declines to respond to messages seeking support.
Posts: 11,823 
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Post by timmullen1 on Oct 18, 2020 15:02:41 GMT
Well a little commented problem is who actually is the Returning Officer. There's too much "Deputy" and "Acting" in the system. The suggestion kicking around that the head of electoral services should be the actual RO with the power to delegate announcing the declaration to a mayor seems reasonable. Absolutely not, we should not envisage a situation where officers delegate to elected members. A lot of Mayors/Lord Mayors already make the declaration, and have done for years; some still go the whole nine yards and wear the full regalia of red fur lined coat and black tricorn hat like they’ve just escaped from Trumpton. |
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piperdave
SNP
Dalkeith; Midlothian/North & Musselburgh
Posts: 911
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Post by piperdave on Oct 18, 2020 15:41:26 GMT
Yes, that's exactly it. The sole duty of a returning officer is to ensure that the writ is answered by returning a member to Parliament. Well a little commented problem is who actually is the Returning Officer. There's too much "Deputy" and "Acting" in the system. The suggestion kicking around that the head of electoral services should be the actual RO with the power to delegate announcing the declaration to a mayor seems reasonable. Alternatively, you could adopt the rules for Scotland in the RPA 1983 and have a senior officer of the relevant local authority be the Returning Officer, and by and large they are the ones who will declare the result. |
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Post by timrollpickering on Oct 18, 2020 15:53:45 GMT
Locally I can't remember a result being declared by anyone but the Chief Executive. We need to stop structuring the management of elections as though the sole thing that matters is the declaration.
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timmullen1
Labour
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Post by timmullen1 on Oct 18, 2020 16:00:42 GMT
Locally I can't remember a result being declared by anyone but the Chief Executive. We need to stop structuring the management of elections as though the sole thing that matters is the declaration. Just off the top of my head Exeter, both Portsmouth, the three Wandsworth seats were all declared by Mayors/Lord Mayors last year, not to mention seats like Huntingdon, the two Wirral’s and Stafford where the High Sheriff declares. Edit: Just remembered, back in 1997 Harrogate and Knaresborough was done by the Mayor because Frank Skinner interviewed him in one of those godawful opt-outs the BBC thought would be a good idea. |
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 12,012
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Post by Khunanup on Oct 18, 2020 18:32:03 GMT
Locally I can't remember a result being declared by anyone but the Chief Executive. We need to stop structuring the management of elections as though the sole thing that matters is the declaration. Just off the top of my head Exeter, both Portsmouth, the three Wandsworth seats were all declared by Mayors/Lord Mayors last year, not to mention seats like Huntingdon, the two Wirral’s and Stafford where the High Sheriff declares. Edit: Just remembered, back in 1997 Harrogate and Knaresborough was done by the Mayor because Frank Skinner interviewed him in one of those godawful opt-outs the BBC thought would be a good idea. Yes, the Lord Mayor does it in Portsmouth unless they expressly don't want to. |
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Foggy
Non-Aligned
Yn Ennill Yma
Posts: 6,135
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Post by Foggy on Oct 18, 2020 20:19:47 GMT
Alien to the German sort, which the Kiwis merely copied. Not exactly. There are no compensatory seats in NZ for instance, though there (potentially) are overhang seats. And no one in their right mind would copy the strange connected state lists of the German system or the very weird things the CDU (with FDP or SPD sidekicks) has been doing to obey-but-not-comply the Bundesverfassungsgericht's verdicts in recent years (but that was after NZ introduced mmp). Yes, we could say that NZ is on something akin to pre-2013 because there is no chance of the legislature expanding to a ridiculous degree. The 2014-17 Parliament had 121 seats rather than 120 due to an overhang, so there isn't a legal upper limit but the possibility of a bloated 200-MP chamber is incredibly remote. |
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Post by groznik on Oct 18, 2020 20:47:03 GMT
Did you still vote National in this election, or were you one of those won over to ACT? Won over to ACT. At least they seem to stand for something distinct though I don't agree with all of it. A lot of rural folk split National Electorate-Labour Party Vote to keep the Greens out with their wealth tax plans (1% per annum for all net assets over $1 million (GBP 500k), double that over $2 million).
You might enjoy our new Deputy Prime Minister's attempt at poetry. Needless to say he has been kept in the local equivalent of Joe Biden's basement for the last three years!
www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/election-2020-is-kelvin-davis-election-night-speech-the-worlds-worst-political-speech/BBIG3TIAVORROD2LTQ3L4NGH44/
I'm having lunch with the doyenne of NZ political academia so I'll pass on any gems.
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Post by timrollpickering on Oct 18, 2020 21:14:03 GMT
There's been a steady long term increase in the number of constituencies (from 65 in 1996 to 72 now) and a corresponding reduction in list members. IIRC the rules require a minimum number of general roll seats on South Island but that's a declining proportion of the electorate as North Island and the Maori roll expand and so preserving seats on South Island forces the creation of extra ones elsewhere.
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Post by greenhert on Oct 20, 2020 9:50:23 GMT
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timmullen1
Labour
Closing account as BossMan declines to respond to messages seeking support.
Posts: 11,823
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Post by timmullen1 on Oct 30, 2020 3:24:07 GMT
In left over business from the General Election, the NZ Electoral Commission have released preliminary results the two referendums held alongside the election.
The legalisation of assisted dying, to ratify an Act, sponsored by David Seymour of the ACT Party, has passed 65.2% to 35.8% and will become law in November.
The approval of a draft Bill sponsored by the Greens on the legalisation of cannabis use has seemingly failed by 46.1% to 53.1% (in both cases the remaining votes to get to 100% are provisional votes).
There are also 480,000 special votes still to be counted which are not enough to change the End of Life Care Act result, but theoretically, if they broke by some 80% in favour of “yes” could change the Cannabis Legalisation and Control Bill result. Nobody seriously expects this, and the “yes” campaign have conceded, but the final margin could be much closer as a large chunk of those provisional ballots are believed to be student and Maōri voters who are heavily pro-“yes”.
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Post by timrollpickering on Oct 30, 2020 10:32:47 GMT
Half a congratulation to New Zealand on voting that way.
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Post by manchesterman on Oct 30, 2020 13:51:03 GMT
In left over business from the General Election, the NZ Electoral Commission have released preliminary results the two referendums held alongside the election. The legalisation of assisted dying, to ratify an Act, sponsored by David Seymour of the ACT Party, has passed 65.2% to 35.8% and will become law in November. The approval of a draft Bill sponsored by the Greens on the legalisation of cannabis use has seemingly failed by 46.1% to 53.1% (in both cases the remaining votes to get to 100% are provisional votes). There are also 480,000 special votes still to be counted which are not enough to change the End of Life Care Act result, but theoretically, if they broke by some 80% in favour of “yes” could change the Cannabis Legalisation and Control Bill result. Nobody seriously expects this, and the “yes” campaign have conceded, but the final margin could be much closer as a large chunk of those provisional ballots are believed to be student and Maōri voters who are heavily pro-“yes”. Students in favour of legalising cannabis? Whatever next  |
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timmullen1
Labour
Closing account as BossMan declines to respond to messages seeking support.
Posts: 11,823
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Post by timmullen1 on Oct 30, 2020 14:01:03 GMT
The legalisation of assisted dying, to ratify an Act, sponsored by David Seymour of the ACT Party, has passed 65.2% to 35.8% and will become law in November. Lockdown fanatics: "Why do have a Government that wants to kill granny, why can't we be more like New Zealand"
New Zealand: Literally votes to kill granny. And then votes to say granny can't smoke any weed on the way to the glue factory
Can I suggest that instead of posting your usual verbal diorrhea you read the legislation; most elderly people are unlikely to be covered by the legislation as the diseases which are included are likely to have killed you way before you reach “granny” status. Also you might want to note that the legislation was introduced into parliament by the ACT Party, who were the most lockdown sceptic party in the last parliament. Perhaps we should credit the people of New Zealand with having greater political acumen than yourself. |
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cogload
Lib Dem
I jumped in the river and what did I see...
Posts: 9,141
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Post by cogload on Nov 6, 2020 7:24:01 GMT
Specials are in. Nats lose 2 seats (down to 33), The Maori Party and Labour gain one seat.
Turnout over 80%.
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Post by matureleft on Nov 6, 2020 7:40:39 GMT
Specials are in. Nats lose 2 seats (down to 33), The Maori Party and Labour gain one seat. Turnout over 80%. And in the process Labour achieved just in excess of an overall majority of votes cast. Pretty astounding in a proportional system with the consequent range of party options. |
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andrea
Non-Aligned
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Post by andrea on Nov 6, 2020 13:13:00 GMT
Labour gained 3 electorates compared to election night:
Priyanca Radhakrishann in Maungakiekie ousting Denise Lee
Willow Jane Prime in Northland ousting Matt King
Emily Henderson in Whangarei ousting Shane Reti
Reti survives thanks to the list. King and Lee not.
On election night, Radhakrishann and Prime were elected on the list while Henderson wasn't.
Debbie Ngarewa Packer is the Maori list MP
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Post by timrollpickering on Jun 25, 2021 13:13:43 GMT
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