john07
Labour & Co-operative
Posts: 15,786 
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Post by john07 on Sept 10, 2019 11:23:37 GMT
Milton Keynes Village was hardly likely to be the centre-point if a Labour constituency. It probably had a population of a few hundred at the time. The likes of Bletchley, Wolverton, etc were more significant. Wolverton was an early railway town. As was Bletchley. It was at the centre of the old Varsity Line from Oxford to Cambridge. |
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Post by finsobruce on Sept 10, 2019 11:31:42 GMT
Wolverton was an early railway town. As was Bletchley. It was at the centre of the old Varsity Line from Oxford to Cambridge. I think I've posted this before but still worth a look. Bletchley appears at 17.26. And the music is Vaughan Williams. It's almost as though they know us.... 
Any train fans here not subscribed to this channel should remedy that straight away.  |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Sept 10, 2019 12:17:00 GMT
I don't know. Its really 'county' true blue. , and you might well say the same about a number of constituencies formerly equally the deepest shade of blue but subsequently Lib Dem? Okay a very long shot but in changing times not impossible. Really? I can see one or two..  |
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Chris from Brum
Lib Dem
What I need is a strong drink and a peer group.
Posts: 9,732
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Post by Chris from Brum on Sept 10, 2019 12:26:45 GMT
But the Lib Dems don't have no go areas, and you might well say the same about a number of constituencies formerly equally the deepest shade of blue but subsequently Lib Dem? Okay a very long shot but in changing times not impossible. Really? I can see one or two.. We may have areas where we're short of members. That's not the same thing. |
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Post by yellowperil on Sept 10, 2019 12:28:22 GMT
The fact that the LDs in a particular authority has no seats atm doesn't necessarily make it a no go area. Take Ashford for instance. Membership is now higher than at any point in its history and yet a lot of new members have very little electoral experience. I have bemoaned this elsewhere. I have seen signs that at last these new members have got a bit more awareness of what is required of them than was the case a few months ago, and the next electoral test may be very different. Certainly not a no-go area.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Sept 10, 2019 13:18:20 GMT
Adam in Stroud,we do seem to think of the past as fairly honourable compared to now. But some of the biggest crooks and wrong 'uns in any of the parties could be seen in the Sixties and Seventies, on a scale that wouldn't be imaginable amongst the current crop, regardless of what one thinks of them.
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Post by finsobruce on Sept 10, 2019 13:38:11 GMT
Adam in Stroud ,we do seem to think of the past as fairly honourable compared to now. But some of the biggest crooks and wrong 'uns in any of the parties could be seen in the Sixties and Seventies, on a scale that wouldn't be imaginable amongst the current crop, regardless of what one thinks of them. And if you go back to the 1890s....... |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Sept 10, 2019 13:47:15 GMT
Adam in Stroud ,we do seem to think of the past as fairly honourable compared to now. But some of the biggest crooks and wrong 'uns in any of the parties could be seen in the Sixties and Seventies, on a scale that wouldn't be imaginable amongst the current crop, regardless of what one thinks of them. And if you go back to the 1890s....... Big Jabez! |
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Post by finsobruce on Sept 10, 2019 13:49:06 GMT
And if you go back to the 1890s....... Big Jabez! The very man. Anyone here who hasn't read David McKie's book about him, should make it next on their list. |
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Post by Merseymike on Sept 10, 2019 13:54:25 GMT
I wonder if Bercow will defect to Labour about 5 minutes after he ceases to be Speaker... I would imagine he will wait to take his peerage first! Traditionally former Speakers have always been crossbenchers. Of course George Thomas was a Labour speaker whose sympathies ended up with the Conservatives. |
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pl
Non-Aligned
Posts: 1,665
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Post by pl on Sept 10, 2019 14:05:01 GMT
I wonder if Bercow will defect to Labour about 5 minutes after he ceases to be Speaker... I would imagine he will wait to take his peerage first! Traditionally former Speakers have always been crossbenchers. Of course George Thomas was a Labour speaker whose sympathies ended up with the Conservatives. I'd imagine that there is no chance a Conservative government would give him a peerage. I'd say it would be a close run thing between who the Conservative Party likes least Barnier or Bercow! bercow's best hope is that a Labour-led administration takes over before the next election or he can somehow get a future Labour government to give him one. |
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Post by Merseymike on Sept 10, 2019 14:06:48 GMT
I would imagine he will wait to take his peerage first! Traditionally former Speakers have always been crossbenchers. Of course George Thomas was a Labour speaker whose sympathies ended up with the Conservatives. I'd imagine that there is no chance a Conservative government would give him a peerage. I'd say it would be a close run thing between who the Conservative Party likes least Barnier or Bercow! bercow's best hope is that a Labour-led administration takes over before the next election or he can somehow get a future Labour government to give him one. I think it's parliamentary protocol. The Conservatives can't abandon all conservatism. |
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Post by finsobruce on Sept 10, 2019 14:14:13 GMT
I'd imagine that there is no chance a Conservative government would give him a peerage. I'd say it would be a close run thing between who the Conservative Party likes least Barnier or Bercow! bercow's best hope is that a Labour-led administration takes over before the next election or he can somehow get a future Labour government to give him one. I think it's parliamentary protocol. The Conservatives can't abandon all conservatism. You wanna bet? |
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pl
Non-Aligned
Posts: 1,665
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Post by pl on Sept 10, 2019 14:23:11 GMT
I'd imagine that there is no chance a Conservative government would give him a peerage. I'd say it would be a close run thing between who the Conservative Party likes least Barnier or Bercow! bercow's best hope is that a Labour-led administration takes over before the next election or he can somehow get a future Labour government to give him one. I think it's parliamentary protocol. The Conservatives can't abandon all conservatism. What's good for the goose is good for the gander... You can't start by ripping up parliamentary convention and then fall back on it like a crutch "when the nasty man won't let me have my peerage". |
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Post by Merseymike on Sept 10, 2019 14:28:19 GMT
I think it's parliamentary protocol. The Conservatives can't abandon all conservatism. What's good for the goose is good for the gander... You can't start by ripping up parliamentary convention and then fall back on it like a crutch "when the nasty man won't let me have my peerage". That should have nothing to do with it. The Speaker becomes a peer because he has been the Speaker. Not because the government approve of him. Or as a gift. Michael Martin, pretty much universally agreed as a dreadful Speaker, became a peer. |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Sept 10, 2019 14:46:20 GMT
In the past the Speaker's peerage has been awarded by the Monarch after a resolution of the House of Commons requests the Queen to "confer some signal mark of Her Royal favour" upon them. As HM Government controls the Parliamentary timetable they could refuse to provide any time for it; however there is the ability for the motion to be moved as an item of backbench business, or possibly in a Bercow-style SO24.
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Post by BucksDucks on Sept 10, 2019 14:59:47 GMT
But I can’t see how the Lib Dems break through to win, and I can see that for the neighbouring seat in Aylesbury which is a fraction of the size and has a stack of Lib Dem councillors - the comparison to Guildford works better for that seat. So if miracles happen in North Bucks I’d keep my eye on Aylesbury instead. Though the complication there is that Aylesbury has tended to a rather maverick town, electing a lot of UKIP councillors at their peak. I seem to recall it was even predicted as one of their top 10 or so seats. The working class London overspill demographic is also much larger there, making it more like Banbury, Kettering, or Wellingborough than Guildford. Looking at the map, Buckingham unusually curves all the way down to Princes Risborough in Wycombe District. That should be a particular focus for the Lib Dems, there are a lot of wealthy commuters. Speaking of rail, could HS2 affect this by-election? re. UKIP - They did pretty well in their peak years in Aylesbury, I think in part owing to good organisation by their local party. A trio of their councillors elected to AVDC in 2015 have gone on to form the Buckinghamshire Residents Association (presumably with a mind to stand in the 2020 locals). re HS2 - This would definitely play a role in any by-election here, as it has in the local by-elections. The HS2 route cuts right through the Buckingham constituency and I doubt it is very popular amongst the villages of rural Bucks. Despite HS2 and Brexit, I would expect the Conservatives to win here in any by-election with the Lib Dems probably doing about as well as in the Witney by-election. |
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pl
Non-Aligned
Posts: 1,665
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Post by pl on Sept 10, 2019 15:09:15 GMT
What's good for the goose is good for the gander... You can't start by ripping up parliamentary convention and then fall back on it like a crutch "when the nasty man won't let me have my peerage". That should have nothing to do with it. The Speaker becomes a peer because he has been the Speaker. Not because the government approve of him. Or as a gift. Michael Martin, pretty much universally agreed as a dreadful Speaker, became a peer. Mike you almost sound like a High Tory! The Martin and Bercow cases are different. Martin was useless, ineffectual and out of his depth, but generally acted in good faith. He (mostly) took into account the traditions of the House. Bercow acts politically, and acts against all the traditions of the House. Martin was due a peerage. Bercow can't ignore the rules of the game and expect them to be applied to his benefit later. Being a Tory is not a faustian pact to maintain the past and tradition, it is the belief that "what is, is right". However, Tories move with changed circumstances and understand that sanctions are sometimes needed to ensure that traditions/conventions are upheld. Bercow falls into this exception. |
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Post by Merseymike on Sept 10, 2019 16:12:35 GMT
That should have nothing to do with it. The Speaker becomes a peer because he has been the Speaker. Not because the government approve of him. Or as a gift. Michael Martin, pretty much universally agreed as a dreadful Speaker, became a peer. Mike you almost sound like a High Tory! The Martin and Bercow cases are different. Martin was useless, ineffectual and out of his depth, but generally acted in good faith. He (mostly) took into account the traditions of the House. Bercow acts politically, and acts against all the traditions of the House. Martin was due a peerage. Bercow can't ignore the rules of the game and expect them to be applied to his benefit later. Being a Tory is not a faustian pact to maintain the past and tradition, it is the belief that "what is, is right". However, Tories move with changed circumstances and understand that sanctions are sometimes needed to ensure that traditions/conventions are upheld. Bercow falls into this exception. Look...I don't believe in peerages or Lords at all. But its part of our constitution. And if the Conservative Party are no longer in any way High Tory, are they still the Conservative Party at all? The sort of consideration you outline above suggests that tradition is being extinguished along with Ken Clarke and Nicholas Soames. |
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Post by Andrew_S on Sept 11, 2019 2:35:15 GMT
Profile of a young and until very recently rather right-wing Tory MP who might make waves in the future. news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2396507.stm"However, his Euroscepticism has not faltered, as befits a member of the Council of the Freedom Association and a supporter of the Bruges Group." |
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