Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Jul 12, 2019 22:57:07 GMT
Hence my point about Syriza and Varoufakis.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jul 13, 2019 22:51:35 GMT
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Jul 13, 2019 23:07:09 GMT
The way the Guardian has gone in the last couple of years, with right wing journalists like Jessica Elgot in its employ, it doesn't surprise me at all How many of his own family have got jobs so far? |
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Post by independentukip on Jul 13, 2019 23:08:31 GMT
There should be no shock at the Gruan being friendly to the established elites within the EU. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jul 13, 2019 23:34:03 GMT
The way the Guardian has gone in the last couple of years, with right wing journalists like Jessica Elgot in its employ, it doesn't surprise me at all How many of his own family have got jobs so far? Well, none it appears, despite being a classic Greek scion of a dynasty. The Graun were exceptionally hostile towards ND during the election- almost laughable when they noted that ND were regarded as "one half" of the shitshow leading to Greece's financial collapse, but weirdly didn't choose to mention the other half. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jul 13, 2019 23:34:26 GMT
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Jul 13, 2019 23:36:41 GMT
Given the lyrics of the song, its not exactly something I'd want to boast about! |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jul 13, 2019 23:37:30 GMT
Given the lyrics of the song, its not exactly something I'd want to boast about! It's Varoufakis- there's no name he isn't willing to drop! |
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Post by finsobruce on Jul 14, 2019 0:23:50 GMT
The way the Guardian has gone in the last couple of years, with right wing journalists like Jessica Elgot in its employ, it doesn't surprise me at all How many of his own family have got jobs so far? Well, none it appears, despite being a classic Greek scion of a dynasty. The Graun were exceptionally hostile towards ND during the election- almost laughable when they noted that ND were regarded as "one half" of the shitshow leading to Greece's financial collapse, but weirdly didn't choose to mention the other half. Probably because the other half have now more or less disappeared into oblivion and weren't about to form a government. |
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myth11
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Post by myth11 on Jul 14, 2019 1:31:46 GMT
The left gets smaller and is down 16.4% in terms of voting weight on the European council.
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Post by yellowperil on Jul 14, 2019 6:45:39 GMT
I assume something went wrong with that sentence. Otherwise it sounds as though nepotism is now not just permitted, it has become compulsory.  |
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Post by yellowperil on Jul 14, 2019 7:06:25 GMT
Yes of course they do. My point was that the allusion that Gwynne makes to the BBC obsessing about the rise of 'far right' parties in Europe is generally based on the (relative) electoral success of parties that are nothing of the kind (AfD, Lega, UKIP etc). Clearly the parties in Europe that are on the Right come in various shades of Rightness and it is not unreasonable to want to distinguish between out and out fascists like Golden Dawn and other parties of the Right which may include some leftish aspects within their makeup, such as Lega or UKIP ( heaven knows where the Brexit Party will fit in when and if they decide to have any policies, probably in the same general bundle). Trouble with that is the original Italian Fascists, and maybe even the German National Socialists, were probably not Far Right in that definition. |
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Jul 14, 2019 8:58:44 GMT
I assume something went wrong with that sentence. Otherwise it sounds as though nepotism is now not just permitted, it has become compulsory. So, back to how it used to be under both ND and PASOK |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jul 14, 2019 9:13:36 GMT
I assume something went wrong with that sentence. Otherwise it sounds as though nepotism is now not just permitted, it has become compulsory. Something did go wrong, but I think I accidentally referred to the old policy  |
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on Jul 14, 2019 13:10:20 GMT
Yes of course they do. My point was that the allusion that Gwynne makes to the BBC obsessing about the rise of 'far right' parties in Europe is generally based on the (relative) electoral success of parties that are nothing of the kind (AfD, Lega, UKIP etc). Clearly the parties in Europe that are on the Right come in various shades of Rightness and it is not unreasonable to want to distinguish between out and out fascists like Golden Dawn and other parties of the Right which may include some leftish aspects within their makeup, such as Lega or UKIP ( heaven knows where the Brexit Party will fit in when and if they decide to have any policies, probably in the same general bundle). Trouble with that is the original Italian Fascists, and maybe even the German National Socialists, were probably not Far Right in that definition. The real National-Socialists have been - nomen est omen - socialistic. As a result a NYT-ignorant has claimed recently, that Blocher's SVP and Wilders' PVV are the rightextremest parties in Europe, because they are also economically "right" (=liberal) ... |
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Jul 14, 2019 13:16:15 GMT
I would say corporatist rather than socialist
Certainly not the liberal-free market end of the political right - much more likely to be protectionist and in favour of corporate arrangements with the private sector, and not opposed to nationalisation either - linking that to 'patriotic' support for national production.
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on Jul 14, 2019 20:17:18 GMT
I would say corporatist rather than socialist Certainly not the liberal-free market end of the political right - much more likely to be protectionist and in favour of corporate arrangements with the private sector, and not opposed to nationalisation either - linking that to 'patriotic' support for national production. "Socialism" has been abused for all kinds of leftism (for basically everything between "soft" progressivism and "hard" communism). Socialism is in abstract nothing else than public/state-capitalism, Your terminus "corporatism" is another possibility. In concreto a historian can paint it as a (crypto-revolutionary!) nostalgia of the liberal/atomistic bourgeoisie for the restoration of some order. Already COMTE was a Janus. (GOMEZ DAVILA: "Comte combines greatest verities with greatest absurdities.") |
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Toylyyev
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Post by Toylyyev on Jul 14, 2019 23:06:40 GMT
Clearly the parties in Europe that are on the Right come in various shades of Rightness and it is not unreasonable to want to distinguish between out and out fascists like Golden Dawn and other parties of the Right which may include some leftish aspects within their makeup, such as Lega or UKIP ( heaven knows where the Brexit Party will fit in when and if they decide to have any policies, probably in the same general bundle). Trouble with that is the original Italian Fascists, and maybe even the German National Socialists, were probably not Far Right in that definition. The real National-Socialists have been - nomen est omen - socialistic. As a result a NYT-ignorant has claimed recently, that Blocher's SVP and Wilders' PVV are the rightextremest parties in Europe, because they are also economically "right" (=liberal) ... Intriguing characterization of Comrade Blocher there... and indeed a bit of crawling reveals that it reputedly took an NZZ journo to inadvertently rescue the Azure from his ownership. www.tagblatt.ch/schweiz/blocher-daemmerung-bei-der-waehlerstaerksten-partei-der-schweiz-deutet-sich-eine-zeitenwende-an-ld.1110997 (German) Still lingering doubts remain that it all was a Habsburgian covert operation to force-feed Wiener Schmäh to the insurgency.
PS: The not so random fact that the first modern Greek sovereign was Salzburg-born Otto Friedrich Ludwig von Wittelsbach. There does indeed seem to have been a somewhat similar take at politics between Greeks and Austrians over the last couple centuries, whereby one interesting matter is how the latter have managed of late to avoid the crises that have recurrently plagued the Greek polity. To what degree could it be due to the electoral law in Austria having been more civil-oriented since 1945 than over most of that period in Greece?
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jul 15, 2019 6:41:39 GMT
The main lesson Greece learned from Austria was Proporz!
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on Jul 15, 2019 11:10:02 GMT
The real National-Socialists have been - nomen est omen - socialistic. As a result a NYT-ignorant has claimed recently, that Blocher's SVP and Wilders' PVV are the rightextremest parties in Europe, because they are also economically "right" (=liberal) ... Intriguing characterization of Comrade Blocher there... and indeed a bit of crawling reveals that it reputedly took an NZZ journo to inadvertently rescue the Azure from his ownership. www.tagblatt.ch/schweiz/blocher-daemmerung-bei-der-waehlerstaerksten-partei-der-schweiz-deutet-sich-eine-zeitenwende-an-ld.1110997 (German) Still lingering doubts remain that it all was a Habsburgian covert operation to force-feed Wiener Schmäh to the insurgency.
PS: The not so random fact that the first modern Greek sovereign was Salzburg-born Otto Friedrich Ludwig von Wittelsbach. There does indeed seem to have been a somewhat similar take at politics between Greeks and Austrians over the last couple centuries, whereby one interesting matter is how the latter have managed of late to avoid the crises that have recurrently plagued the Greek polity. To what degree could it be due to the electoral law in Austria having been more civil-oriented since 1945 than over most of that period in Greece?
Well, some historians have taught, that the Dorians came 1200 BC to Greece from the area around Vienna. Generally i cannot really detect similarities - what exactly did You have in mind? P.scr.: My respect - only few Salzburgians are aware of King Otto! |
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