|
Post by mattbewilson on Apr 8, 2024 22:02:37 GMT
And some of us feel the opposite. That’s the point of a broad church party… I dont think "the Point" of a broad church party is to inspire its membership to vomit Therefore, I agree with David good to have you onboard comrade
|
|
|
Post by mattbewilson on Apr 8, 2024 22:03:21 GMT
And some of us feel the opposite. That’s the point of a broad church party… If I can stay and support Labour candidates when Corbyn was losing elections, the least they can do is stay and support Labour candidates while Starmer's trying his best to win them. That's the point. if you can stay? As if you were going to leave. You've got as much chance of leaving the labour party as I do
|
|
|
Post by uthacalthing on Apr 9, 2024 0:14:05 GMT
Nah. David had far more chance of being expelled than you did.
|
|
The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 36,828
|
Post by The Bishop on Apr 9, 2024 13:15:45 GMT
Nah, the left would have needed *far* greater control of the party apparatus than they ever actually achieved in 2015-20 to make that even a vaguely feasible possibility.
To go back to the previous posts, it is interesting that both the "extremes" in Labour group the 2017 and 2019 manifestos together isn't it. In reality, their differences are at least as important as any similarities - and are one reason (of course there are several others) why one was distinctly more successful than the other.
Indeed, the forthcoming manifesto could well have more in common with 2017 than certain people - both entrenched Corbynites and anti-Corbynites - might want to admit.
|
|
|
Post by kevinf on Apr 9, 2024 16:35:20 GMT
Nah, the left would have needed *far* greater control of the party apparatus than they ever actually achieved in 2015-20 to make that even a vaguely feasible possibility. To go back to the previous posts, it is interesting that both the "extremes" in Labour group the 2017 and 2019 manifestos together isn't it. In reality, their differences are at least as important as any similarities - and are one reason (of course there are several others) why one was distinctly more successful than the other. Indeed, the forthcoming manifesto could well have more in common with 2017 than certain people - both entrenched Corbynites and anti-Corbynites - might want to admit. To clarify for others, that would be a commitment to a second EU referendum? Totally agree. Which Is why I wouldn’t group them together. It’s just that neither made me want to vomit…
|
|
|
Post by carolus on Apr 10, 2024 13:45:57 GMT
East Renfrewshire, Clarkston, Netherlee & Williamwood (2027). Annette Ireland, SNP to Independent.
|
|
|
Post by carolus on Apr 10, 2024 16:36:31 GMT
East Devon, Exmouth Halsdon (2027). Daniel Wilson, Labour to Independent.
|
|
|
Post by Merseymike on Apr 10, 2024 17:50:04 GMT
East Devon, Exmouth Halsdon (2027). Daniel Wilson, Labour to Independent. 2019 Labour candidate, General Election.
|
|
|
Post by mattbewilson on Apr 10, 2024 18:34:55 GMT
Nah. David had far more chance of being expelled than you did. I am quite well behaved
|
|
|
Post by Pete Whitehead on Apr 10, 2024 19:41:20 GMT
|
|
|
Post by carolus on Apr 10, 2024 20:49:17 GMT
East Devon, Exmouth Halsdon (2027). Daniel Wilson, Labour to Independent. Seems to have happened a couple of weeks ago, and to be selection related.
|
|
The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 36,828
|
Post by The Bishop on Apr 11, 2024 11:51:25 GMT
Nah, the left would have needed *far* greater control of the party apparatus than they ever actually achieved in 2015-20 to make that even a vaguely feasible possibility. To go back to the previous posts, it is interesting that both the "extremes" in Labour group the 2017 and 2019 manifestos together isn't it. In reality, their differences are at least as important as any similarities - and are one reason (of course there are several others) why one was distinctly more successful than the other. Indeed, the forthcoming manifesto could well have more in common with 2017 than certain people - both entrenched Corbynites and anti-Corbynites - might want to admit. To clarify for others, that would be a commitment to a second EU referendum? Totally agree. Which Is why I wouldn’t group them together. It’s just that neither made me want to vomit… That was one difference between the two manifestos, yes - but far from the only (or many would say, even the main) one. 2017 was far more focused and majored on a few areas where a Labour government would make a clear difference - 2019 much more the traditional left wing "wish list" of "nice to haves" that was seen most infamously in 1983. Its claims to be costed, maybe never entirely credible anyway, were blown apart during the campaign when the party made its desperate "WASPI bribe" gamble - which was mostly not believed by its purported beneficiaries in any event. And not saying you were claiming this, but many on the left desperately need to get away from the "moving to a more pro-EU position cost Labour the 2019 GE" myth (still more the completely and absolutely baseless "this was deliberately done by Starmer so he could tank Corbyn's chances and take over as leader" conspiracy theory so beloved of terminally online cranks) There were no good options for Labour on Brexit by the summer of 2019, but all the credible evidence points to them taking the least bad one.
|
|
|
Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Apr 11, 2024 12:13:36 GMT
2017 was the crayon manifesto. There are not many on the far left who obsess about the fine details of policy, so they had not really thought about what would go in to the manifesto before the snap election was called - leaving a lot of stuff left over from the Miliband leadership plus a lot of vague leftish pledges. It would not have survived serious inspection but fortunately for the leadership, nobody thought Labour would win so nobody subjected it to proper scrutiny.
The 2019 manifesto was a steaming pile of crap, with a few jewels sticking out.
|
|
|
Post by Devil Wincarnate on Apr 11, 2024 17:32:44 GMT
The 2019 manifesto was a steaming pile of crap, with a few jewels sticking out. Jeremy Corbyn is... PAPILLON!
|
|
|
Post by mattbewilson on Apr 11, 2024 22:20:22 GMT
2017 was the crayon manifesto. There are not many on the far left who obsess about the fine details of policy, so they had not really thought about what would go in to the manifesto before the snap election was called - leaving a lot of stuff left over from the Miliband leadership plus a lot of vague leftish pledges. It would not have survived serious inspection but fortunately for the leadership, nobody thought Labour would win so nobody subjected it to proper scrutiny. The 2019 manifesto was a steaming pile of crap, with a few jewels sticking out. few jewels is an interesting description of Starmers 10 pledges
|
|
|
Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Apr 11, 2024 22:36:17 GMT
Well I didn't vote for Starmer. Not going to get my vote if your leadership campaign looks like Corbynism only without the excess baggage.
|
|
|
Post by matureleft on Apr 12, 2024 5:54:41 GMT
2017 was the crayon manifesto. There are not many on the far left who obsess about the fine details of policy, so they had not really thought about what would go in to the manifesto before the snap election was called - leaving a lot of stuff left over from the Miliband leadership plus a lot of vague leftish pledges. It would not have survived serious inspection but fortunately for the leadership, nobody thought Labour would win so nobody subjected it to proper scrutiny. The 2019 manifesto was a steaming pile of crap, with a few jewels sticking out. Both were hastily thrown together in response to an early general election. As you say 2017’s didn’t get heavy scrutiny. The very different dynamics of the 2019 election meant that it got more. This time Labour has had far longer to prepare and to manage the internal politics involved in writing the thing. It certainly should be coherent, focused and well-written with indications that it can be delivered.
|
|
|
Post by mattbewilson on Apr 12, 2024 9:22:45 GMT
Well I didn't vote for Starmer. Not going to get my vote if your leadership campaign looks like Corbynism only without the excess baggage. oh you didn't vote in the leadership election?
|
|
|
Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Apr 12, 2024 9:38:35 GMT
Well I didn't vote for Starmer. Not going to get my vote if your leadership campaign looks like Corbynism only without the excess baggage. oh you didn't vote in the leadership election? I voted for Lisa Nandy 1, Starmer 2.
|
|
r34t
Non-Aligned
Posts: 878
|
Post by r34t on Apr 12, 2024 9:42:27 GMT
oh you didn't vote in the leadership election? I voted for Lisa Nandy 1, Starmer 2. Snap
|
|