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Post by mattbewilson on May 19, 2024 7:12:30 GMT
Stafford has whole elections and I doubt they would deselect 3 years in advance. you'd be surprised. I know a councillor who failed their panel interview last year and due to the fallow year they aren't up til 2026 |
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,694
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Post by The Bishop on May 19, 2024 9:33:39 GMT
I remain profoundly unimpressed by defections such as these. There was a very similar one in Stoke but she lost her seat heavily back to Labour in last year's elections. There were actually two Labour councillor defections to Tory in Stoke during the 2019-23 period - Ally Simcox and Candi Chetwynd. Totally bizarrely, the former had previously styled themselves as a Corbynite and never gave any explanation of her interesting political "journey". The latter became not just a Tory but one of the biggest sycophants of the egregious Jonathan Gullis. As you say, both received due reward for their apostasy last year  |
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r34t
Non-Aligned
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Post by r34t on May 19, 2024 11:54:11 GMT
I remain profoundly unimpressed by defections such as these. There was a very similar one in Stoke but she lost her seat heavily back to Labour in last year's elections. There were actually two Labour councillor defections to Tory in Stoke during the 2019-23 period - Ally Simcox and Candi Chetwynd. Totally bizarrely, the former had previously styled themselves as a Corbynite and never gave any explanation of her interesting political "journey". The latter became not just a Tory but one of the biggest sycophants of the egregious Jonathan Gullis. As you say, both received due reward for their apostasy last year Which generated the all too predictable headline of 'Candi Crushed' ..... |
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Post by carolus on May 20, 2024 10:44:19 GMT
Breckland, Watton (2027). Tina Kiddell, Conservative to Independent. www.edp24.co.uk/news/24331240.tina-kiddell-leaves-conservative-group-breckland-council/Oxford, Holywell (2026). Edward Mundy, Oxford Socialist Independents to Oxford Community Independents. Oxford, Northfield Brook (2026). Hosnieh Djafari-Marbini, Oxford Socialist Independents to Oxford Community Independents. This looks like a rebranding, they were the only OSI and there are no other OCI. Oxford, Cowley (2026). Amar Latif, Independent Group to Oxford Independent Group. Oxford, Lye Valley (2026). Ajaz Rehman, Independent Group to Oxford Independent Group. New group.
I think that makes four separate Independent groups in Oxford at the moment. Torridge, Appledore (2027). Len Ford, Independent to Non-Aligned. Torridge, Bidedford West (2027). Carl Hawkins, Independent to Non-Aligned. |
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Post by stb12 on May 20, 2024 11:03:09 GMT
Again, I wave my marksenior card: how bloody dare someone elected in an area so clearly opposed to a party, then defect to that party for personal reasons and ignore the personal reasons their voters hate the party they now join without testing their choice with a byelection. If you defect, you should face a byelection - full stop. Do you mean that for Parliament as well or only at council level? |
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CatholicLeft
Labour
2032 posts until I was "accidentally" deleted.
Posts: 6,675
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Post by CatholicLeft on May 20, 2024 14:19:32 GMT
Again, I wave my marksenior card: how bloody dare someone elected in an area so clearly opposed to a party, then defect to that party for personal reasons and ignore the personal reasons their voters hate the party they now join without testing their choice with a byelection. If you defect, you should face a byelection - full stop. Do you mean that for Parliament as well or only at council level? I certainly do |
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Post by stb12 on May 20, 2024 14:41:02 GMT
Do you mean that for Parliament as well or only at council level? I certainly do I get that defections in some circumstances can seem underhand and will be hard to swallow for loyal party activists and workers, but I’m not comfortable with such a thing being made a law. It would just establish the party system more and however much most people likely do vote based on the party it is an individual on the ballot paper and an individual that has to ultimately decide things based on their own conscience The terms in parliament and in councils are five years at most so if they want to stand again under different colours then they can be judged before too long |
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Post by batman on May 20, 2024 15:15:28 GMT
It is a difficult one. If someone defects at the very end of a parliament relatively little harm is done. But sometimes the defection can be very soon after election, e.g. Paul Marsden, Shrewbury & Atcham, Lab -> LD in 2001. He did redefect in the dying days of that parliament but I don't think he ever actually resumed his Labour Party membership, to date. Marsden efficiently & ruthlessly squeezed the LD vote in the 2001 campaign only to join them soon after. In general I do think it is best if people who defect, especially to an obviously opposing party, are very strongly encouraged to seek re-election in their new colours in many circumstances. The best way to achieve this would be for the political parties themselves to discourage people from defecting to them without seeking re-election in their new colours. Although most would say to that that chance would be a fine thing.
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Post by kevinf on May 20, 2024 17:05:37 GMT
It is a difficult one. If someone defects at the very end of a parliament relatively little harm is done. But sometimes the defection can be very soon after election, e.g. Paul Marsden, Shrewbury & Atcham, Lab -> LD in 2001. He did redefect in the dying days of that parliament but I don't think he ever actually resumed his Labour Party membership, to date. Marsden efficiently & ruthlessly squeezed the LD vote in the 2001 campaign only to join them soon after. In general I do think it is best if people who defect, especially to an obviously opposing party, are very strongly encouraged to seek re-election in their new colours in many circumstances. The best way to achieve this would be for the political parties themselves to discourage people from defecting to them without seeking re-election in their new colours. Although most would say to that that chance would be a fine thing. Having the defectors resign and seek re-election worked incredibly well for UKIP, kept them in the news for months. |
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Post by johnloony on May 20, 2024 18:19:03 GMT
Again, I wave my marksenior card: how bloody dare someone elected in an area so clearly opposed to a party, then defect to that party for personal reasons and ignore the personal reasons their voters hate the party they now join without testing their choice with a byelection. If you defect, you should face a byelection - full stop. I am of the opposite extreme opinion. All MPs and councillors have been elected as individuals with an individual mandate for a full 4-year term, and should be able to serve that term without being forced to stand for re-election, and without being at risk of a recall petition - regardless of whether, or to whom, or how many times, they defect to another party. The practical reason for not requiring defectors to face a by-election is that it would stop large numbers of defectors from defecting. They could, and would, be rebellious and continue to vote against their own party. You can deter them from defecting but you can’t enforce their loyalty to the party from which they want to defect. |
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Post by carolus on May 20, 2024 19:58:23 GMT
We elect individuals and not parties, and we elect them to use their best judgement in the representation and service of their constituents. If their judgment is that the best interest of their constituents is served by changing party then they must do so, and in some sense it would be remiss of them not to do so.
Of course the true motivation of a defection may not be high principle, or it may be that their judgement is faulty, or it may be that they believe the best interests of their constituents fortuitously coincides with their own personal desires. I might view these as reflecting poorly on the character of the representative in question, in which case if I voted for them I can lament my own poor judgement when casting my vote, and would vote and perhaps even campaign against them when their term ends. As a party member I would also view them poorly, as well as the process that led to their original selection.
It's all very annoying, but that's how it goes.
Requiring a byelection cuts against our system, and would be a clear transfer of power into the hands of parties. Plus of course the practical issues with any such attempt.
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Post by carolus on May 20, 2024 20:04:29 GMT
Oxford, Holywell (2026). Edward Mundy, Oxford Socialist Independents to Oxford Community Independents. Oxford, Northfield Brook (2026). Hosnieh Djafari-Marbini, Oxford Socialist Independents to Oxford Community Independents. This looks like a rebranding, they were the only OSI and there are no other OCI. Oxford, Cowley (2026). Amar Latif, Independent Group to Oxford Independent Group. Oxford, Lye Valley (2026). Ajaz Rehman, Independent Group to Oxford Independent Group. New group.
I think that makes four separate Independent groups in Oxford at the moment. Oxford, Headington Hill & Northway (2026). Barbara Coyne, Independent to Oxford Community Independents.
The two remaining Independents have also rebadged themselves: Oxford, Temple Cowley (2026). Sajjad Malik, Independent to Real Independents. Oxford, Temple Cowley (2028). Mohammed Azad, Independent to Real Independents.
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Post by olympian95 on May 21, 2024 9:54:52 GMT
Greenwich, Cllr Chris Lloyd (Ind, elected as Labour) to Liberal Democrat. West Thamesmead ward.
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Post by casualobserver on May 21, 2024 10:37:26 GMT
Flintshire From Labour to Independents Alasdair Ibbotson Sam Swash Dan Rose Gillian Brockley Carolyn Preece Cllr Ibbotson accused an unnamed senior figure in the Labour administration of misleading members of a committee. These five councillors have now formed a Group named "Flintshire People's Voice". The new breakdown at Flintshire is as follows: Labour 27 Independent 25 Flintshire People's Voice 5 Liberal Democrats 4 Eagle 3 non-aligned 2 (one suspended for four months to 26 August) |
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Post by casualobserver on May 21, 2024 10:47:22 GMT
Connor Brady, Biddulph East, Staffordshire Moorlands: Labour to Independent
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,694
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Post by The Bishop on May 21, 2024 10:51:52 GMT
Erm....what exactly is "Eagle"?
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Post by carolus on May 21, 2024 11:03:15 GMT
Vale of White Horse, Blewbury & Harwell (2027). Debra Dewhurst, Liberal Democrat to Independent.
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Post by johnloony on May 21, 2024 11:18:39 GMT
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Post by batman on May 21, 2024 12:49:06 GMT
A Dolphin once played first class cricket for Yorkshire. The weather suited him
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Post by johnloony on May 21, 2024 15:37:05 GMT
Erm....what exactly is "Eagle"? Councillor Rosetta Dolphin replies: |
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