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Post by Merseymike on Feb 6, 2021 11:34:42 GMT
They aren't going to attract those people. Ever. But Labour tribalist types have never been able to fact that fact. What Labour need is a LibDem revival which has contributed to their previous election wins. Alternatively they will recognise that they do not benefit from the current electoral system and so will look to change it. That would, however, lead to likely realignment, which also upsets Labour tribalists as they think they have an entitlement to the votes of anyone who is not Conservative Should they be unable to get over their majoritarian tendencies then the likelihood is another Tory government. Mike thatβs rubbish Labour attracted plenty of conservative voters in 1997. Actually fewer than often imagined. Many Tory votes went to the LibDems and that greatly increased Labour's majority. They only managed 42% even then. So I think you are wrong. Direct switchers were limited. And how about other years - because no one with half a brain seriously thinks we are heading for another 1997 anyway! I realise some of the Starmer devotees think so, but they aren't to be taken seriously any more than those who thought that such a fearful, risk-averse country would elect anything where that may be needed! It doesn't bother me. I want Starmer to lose, and lose big, unless a pact for electoral reform is agreed. I want to see the death and reformation of Labour as a first option. If that requires another Tory government fine
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Feb 6, 2021 11:36:05 GMT
What are the figures for all voters? Is it the poll in the post directly above this one ?
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Post by hullenedge on Feb 6, 2021 12:47:13 GMT
What are the figures for all voters? Is it the poll in the post directly above this one ? Sadly the tweet doesn't elaborate. Comres don't release the full details of their polls. (Only available to he who pays?). Other polling companies are taking the same stance.
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 36,636
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Post by The Bishop on Feb 6, 2021 13:09:48 GMT
They aren't going to attract those people. Ever. But Labour tribalist types have never been able to fact that fact. What Labour need is a LibDem revival which has contributed to their previous election wins. Alternatively they will recognise that they do not benefit from the current electoral system and so will look to change it. That would, however, lead to likely realignment, which also upsets Labour tribalists as they think they have an entitlement to the votes of anyone who is not Conservative Should they be unable to get over their majoritarian tendencies then the likelihood is another Tory government. Mike thatβs rubbish Labour attracted plenty of conservative voters in 1997. Politics was less polarised then.
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Post by Merseymike on Feb 6, 2021 13:26:53 GMT
Mike thatβs rubbish Labour attracted plenty of conservative voters in 1997. Politics was less polarised then. But even then it wasn't all that many....
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European Lefty
Labour
Can be bribed with salted liquorice
Posts: 5,572
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Post by European Lefty on Feb 6, 2021 15:45:59 GMT
I think the real issue is that people are not willing to switch during COVID because they would feel like they were abandoning a government that needs their support. Wait until the crisis is over and we'll see more switching.
And failing to win Conservatives isn't necessarily the problem, and you wouldn't expect us to outside a 97-type scenario. What we need is to win swing voters which if patterns are fracturing in the way we keep being told, should be increasing in numbers
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nodealbrexiteer
Forum Regular
non aligned favour no deal brexit!
Posts: 4,060
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Post by nodealbrexiteer on Feb 6, 2021 16:28:02 GMT
Mike thatβs rubbish Labour attracted plenty of conservative voters in 1997. Actually fewer than often imagined. Many Tory votes went to the LibDems and that greatly increased Labour's majority. They only managed 42% even then. So I think you are wrong. Direct switchers were limited. And how about other years - because no one with half a brain seriously thinks we are heading for another 1997 anyway! I realise some of the Starmer devotees think so, but they aren't to be taken seriously any more than those who thought that such a fearful, risk-averse country would elect anything where that may be needed! It doesn't bother me. I want Starmer to lose, and lose big, unless a pact for electoral reform is agreed. I want to see the death and reformation of Labour as a first option. If that requires another Tory government fine not sure how more and more defeats will move Labour leftward if that's your hope. Me personally now I'm less tribal and if the Tories are likely to hurt me less in the pocket if they carry on in office so be it.
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Post by Merseymike on Feb 6, 2021 17:05:38 GMT
Actually fewer than often imagined. Many Tory votes went to the LibDems and that greatly increased Labour's majority. They only managed 42% even then. So I think you are wrong. Direct switchers were limited. And how about other years - because no one with half a brain seriously thinks we are heading for another 1997 anyway! I realise some of the Starmer devotees think so, but they aren't to be taken seriously any more than those who thought that such a fearful, risk-averse country would elect anything where that may be needed! It doesn't bother me. I want Starmer to lose, and lose big, unless a pact for electoral reform is agreed. I want to see the death and reformation of Labour as a first option. If that requires another Tory government fine not sure how more and more defeats will move Labour leftward if that's your hope. Me personally now I'm less tribal and if the Tories are likely to hurt me less in the pocket if they carry on in office so be it.Β I want more parties and a proper choice. I don't think that currently exists. Labour needs to split. So do the Tories
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nodealbrexiteer
Forum Regular
non aligned favour no deal brexit!
Posts: 4,060
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Post by nodealbrexiteer on Feb 6, 2021 17:12:27 GMT
not sure how more and more defeats will move Labour leftward if that's your hope. Me personally now I'm less tribal and if the Tories are likely to hurt me less in the pocket if they carry on in office so be it. I want more parties and a proper choice. I don't think that currently exists. Labour needs to split. So do the Tories Vote Tory to keep fptp forever
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Feb 6, 2021 17:13:34 GMT
not sure how more and more defeats will move Labour leftward if that's your hope. Me personally now I'm less tribal and if the Tories are likely to hurt me less in the pocket if they carry on in office so be it.Β I want more parties and a proper choice. I don't think that currently exists. Labour needs to split. So do the Tories I know that like me you hate STV, but you're certainly a fan of the Single Transferable Post
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Post by π΄ββ οΈ Neath West π΄ββ οΈ on Feb 6, 2021 17:34:18 GMT
And how is the 2019 Brexit Party vote splitting according to their sample? That's the bit to watch.
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 36,636
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Post by The Bishop on Feb 7, 2021 11:14:54 GMT
And how is the 2019 Brexit Party vote splitting according to their sample? That's the bit to watch. To an extent maybe, but its not as if their numbers were legion.....
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Post by π΄ββ οΈ Neath West π΄ββ οΈ on Feb 7, 2021 11:18:13 GMT
And how is the 2019 Brexit Party vote splitting according to their sample? That's the bit to watch. To an extent maybe, but its not as if their numbers were legion..... They were in many marginal seats in the North of England.
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Post by london(ex)tory on Feb 10, 2021 12:23:59 GMT
I don't know why ComRes are so slow to publish the full tables for their VI polls. I don't know if this is quite true but it feels like they only publish the full details of the last one after tweeting the headlines from the next one, which is extremely irritating. I have twice emailed them recently to ask for full tables and twice been ignored.
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Post by pragmaticidealist on Feb 10, 2021 12:39:04 GMT
I don't know why ComRes are so slow to publish the full tables for their VI polls. I don't know if this is quite true but it feels like they only publish the full details of the last one after tweeting the headlines from the next one, which is extremely irritating. I have twice emailed them recently to ask for full tables and twice been ignored. ComedyResults like to wait until everyone had finished laughing at their numbers.
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Jack
Reform Party
Posts: 8,133
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Post by Jack on Feb 11, 2021 16:03:57 GMT
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Post by hullenedge on Feb 11, 2021 20:24:49 GMT
Above post not displaying figures so:-
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Post by hullenedge on Feb 18, 2021 13:28:19 GMT
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nodealbrexiteer
Forum Regular
non aligned favour no deal brexit!
Posts: 4,060
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Post by nodealbrexiteer on Feb 18, 2021 13:54:10 GMT
I don't know why ComRes are so slow to publish the full tables for their VI polls. I don't know if this is quite true but it feels like they only publish the full details of the last one after tweeting the headlines from the next one, which is extremely irritating. I have twice emailed them recently to ask for full tables and twice been ignored. ComedyResults like to wait until everyone had finished laughing at their numbers. Careful now they might sue!
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Post by hullenedge on Feb 24, 2021 22:01:12 GMT
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