andrea
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Post by andrea on Jul 24, 2024 10:33:00 GMT
None of them are any great loss to Labour, about 12 brain cells between the lot of them, and most of those are McDonnell's. Quite frankly these idiots need to be reminded that if you campaign upon and get elected on a programme for government, it's not really acceptable to then turn around and vote against it. I’m not sure I can agree with that last sentence. Being a supporter of a political party doesn’t mean you have to agree with every policy and every word written in its most recent manifesto. In fact I’m surprised it wasn’t someone on the Labour benches who tabled the amendment.Kim Johnson of Liverpool Riverside tabled an amendment about that but wasn't selected. She then abstained on the SNP one Various 2 children cap amendment were tabled one by SNP one by Johnson one by the Leicester South MP The SNP one was the one selected Johnson's amendment said: At end add ‘but respectfully regret that the Gracious Speech does not include measures to remove the two-child cap on benefits; note that it is widely considered by economists and civil society organisations that removing the two-child cap on benefits would be the single most cost effective and impactful policy to immediately alleviate child poverty levels in this country; and call on the Government to abolish the two-child cap on benefits, which would immediately lift 300,000 children out of relative poverty.’Singed by Kim Johnson (did not vote on SNP amendment) John McDonnell Mrs Emma Lewell-Buck (voted against SNP amendment) Zarah Sultana Mary Kelly Foy (did not vote on SNP amendment) Ian Lavery (did not vote on SNP amendment) Nadia Whittome (did not vote on SNP amendment) Rosie Duffield (did not vote on SNP amendment) Richard Burgon Kate Osborne (voted against SNP amendment) Rebecca Long Bailey Imran Hussain Bell Ribeiro-Addy (did not vote on SNP amendment) Jon Trickett (did not vote on SNP amendment) Grahame Morris (voted against SNP amendment) Apsana Begum Ian Byrne Jeremy Corbyn Iqbal Mohamed Andy McDonald (did not vote on SNP amendment) Ben Lake Ann Davies Llinos Medi Liz Saville Roberts Ms Diane Abbott (did not vote on SNP amendment) Mr Adnan Hussain Mike Martin Claire Hanna Sorcha Eastwood Siân Berry Carla Denyer Adrian Ramsay Ellie Chowns
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Post by mattbewilson on Jul 24, 2024 10:35:11 GMT
Zarah S has just announced that she is the victim of "a macho virility test" - of Starmer, presumably. I don't think she's going back to Labour. And that's a Labour gain. see from everything I'm told internally she's done a huge amount to stay on side. Her CLP is firmly in the hands of the right but unlike other colleagues she was safely reselected I understand due to a very good relationship with the clp. She's apparently been keeping her head down during the election again unlike many of her colleagues
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nodealbrexiteer
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Post by nodealbrexiteer on Jul 24, 2024 10:35:38 GMT
I’m not sure I can agree with that last sentence. Being a supporter of a political party doesn’t mean you have to agree with every policy and every word written in its most recent manifesto. In fact I’m surprised it wasn’t someone on the Labour benches who tabled the amendment.Kim Johnson of Liverpool Riverside tabled an amendment about that but wasn't selected. She then abstained on the SNP one Various 2 children cap amendment were tabled one by SNP one by Johnson one by the Leicester South MP The SNP one was the one selected Johnson's amendment said: At end add ‘but respectfully regret that the Gracious Speech does not include measures to remove the two-child cap on benefits; note that it is widely considered by economists and civil society organisations that removing the two-child cap on benefits would be the single most cost effective and impactful policy to immediately alleviate child poverty levels in this country; and call on the Government to abolish the two-child cap on benefits, which would immediately lift 300,000 children out of relative poverty.’Singed by Kim Johnson (did not vote on SNP amendment) John McDonnell Mrs Emma Lewell-Buck (voted against SNP amendment) Zarah Sultana Mary Kelly Foy (did not vote on SNP amendment) Ian Lavery (did not vote on SNP amendment) Nadia Whittome (did not vote on SNP amendment) Rosie Duffield (did not vote on SNP amendment) Richard Burgon Kate Osborne (voted against SNP amendment) Rebecca Long Bailey Imran Hussain Bell Ribeiro-Addy (did not vote on SNP amendment) Jon Trickett (did not vote on SNP amendment) Grahame Morris (voted against SNP amendment) Apsana Begum Ian Byrne Jeremy Corbyn Iqbal Mohamed Andy McDonald (did not vote on SNP amendment) Ben Lake Ann Davies Llinos Medi Liz Saville Roberts Ms Diane Abbott (did not vote on SNP amendment) Mr Adnan Hussain Mike Martin Claire Hanna Sorcha Eastwood Siân Berry Carla Denyer Adrian Ramsay Ellie Chowns sir Keir would likely have wanted it singed
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Post by mattbewilson on Jul 24, 2024 10:38:46 GMT
And fair enough if so, but they shouldn’t stand for a party seeking to provide a government. meh I don't see why not, people like John McDonnell have been party members forever. I'm not sure why being a back bench rebel from 1997-2010 was acceptable but it isn't now. I know the party has changed but clearly changed from 2015-2019 not 1900-2019
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Jul 24, 2024 10:40:08 GMT
I’m not sure I can agree with that last sentence. Being a supporter of a political party doesn’t mean you have to agree with every policy and every word written in its most recent manifesto. In fact I’m surprised it wasn’t someone on the Labour benches who tabled the amendment.Kim Johnson of Liverpool Riverside tabled an amendment about that but wasn't selected. She then abstained on the SNP one Various 2 children cap amendment were tabled one by SNP one by Johnson one by the Leicester South MP The SNP one was the one selected Johnson's amendment said: At end add ‘but respectfully regret that the Gracious Speech does not include measures to remove the two-child cap on benefits; note that it is widely considered by economists and civil society organisations that removing the two-child cap on benefits would be the single most cost effective and impactful policy to immediately alleviate child poverty levels in this country; and call on the Government to abolish the two-child cap on benefits, which would immediately lift 300,000 children out of relative poverty.’Singed by Kim Johnson (did not vote on SNP amendment) John McDonnell Mrs Emma Lewell-Buck (voted against SNP amendment) Zarah Sultana Mary Kelly Foy (did not vote on SNP amendment) Ian Lavery (did not vote on SNP amendment) Nadia Whittome (did not vote on SNP amendment) Rosie Duffield (did not vote on SNP amendment) Richard Burgon Kate Osborne (voted against SNP amendment) Rebecca Long Bailey Imran Hussain Bell Ribeiro-Addy (did not vote on SNP amendment) Jon Trickett (did not vote on SNP amendment) Grahame Morris (voted against SNP amendment) Apsana Begum Ian Byrne Jeremy Corbyn Iqbal Mohamed Andy McDonald (did not vote on SNP amendment) Ben Lake Ann Davies Llinos Medi Liz Saville Roberts Ms Diane Abbott (did not vote on SNP amendment) Mr Adnan Hussain Mike Martin Claire Hanna Sorcha Eastwood Siân Berry Carla Denyer Adrian Ramsay Ellie Chowns So....I would say left-wing MP's supported Kim Johnson. Other than Rosie Duffield. Then Plaid Cymru, and the Greens. Three Independents SDLP and Alliance One LibDem
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Post by carlton43 on Jul 24, 2024 10:54:56 GMT
Corbyn - and the other Independents - has shown that the party machine can be beaten. With hindsight, it looks highly likely that Abbott would have been re-elected had she stood as an Independent.Corbyn now has a group of potentially 8 supporters - plus the Muslim Independents elected at the GE.At some point, might we see Corbyn -supported Independents standing at by elections when they come along? But, they are exceptional cases. They have the long term incumbency and the deserved popularity from that incumbency to carry them through the adversity of standing against the the Party, perhaps once or even twice? I don't think Abbott would have held her seat as an independent. She has less prominence, less charisma, had not been the party's leader for years, looked old and frail, looked 'past it', could not have campaigned hard on the stump. She would have failed, perhaps not by much? I think it would have been a clear defeat. But, why were they there, in place, with incumbency and popularity? Entirely because they had enjoyed the favour of the party, that had plucked them from obscurity and gifted them an established safe seat of the party's creation over 100-years of patient effort by OTHERS! This is not about individuals it is about party cohesion and toeing the line, as one should most of the time. These irregulars and rebels are passengers, even parasites on the party's body. They take advantage of being chosen, incumbency, salary and support to 'do their own thing' like the uber-narcissists they have always been. They posture and preen against the anonymous hard work of hundreds of others who silently make the party work well and efficiently. I don't like that sort of person, in a family, in a team, in a political party or at work. They are a nuisance and disruptive. They create the wrong climate and always need to be eased out, prised out or culled. Up to them!
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Post by matureleft on Jul 24, 2024 11:04:45 GMT
And fair enough if so, but they shouldn’t stand for a party seeking to provide a government. meh I don't see why not, people like John McDonnell have been party members forever. I'm not sure why being a back bench rebel from 1997-2010 was acceptable but it isn't now. I know the party has changed but clearly changed from 2015-2019 not 1900-2019 Mike’s desire was for Labour to be a party of protest. It isn’t. It’s one of the (current) two options for a governing party in this country. McDonnell is certainly senior enough to know the way this operates and to know what he can do to make his point without voting with the Opposition on a set-piece vote. He’s chosen this path on a matter of nuance (the change he seeks will happen in due course and he’s been told that). He’s a canny operator (far more so than many in the Campaign Group) and will have worked this out, quite possibly from before the election. You can be a “backbench rebel” without choosing this ploy (and indeed he’s now no longer a rebel as he’s outside the PLP).
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The Bishop
Labour
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Post by The Bishop on Jul 24, 2024 11:24:17 GMT
Labour colleagues suffered abuse and bullying due to the biaised position of Starmer in the aftermath of the event, mainly. I think according to yourself Starmer is responsible for every negative outcome and feature in the entire world Be fair now, some things are also the fault of David Evans and/or Morgan McSweeney
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graham
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Post by graham on Jul 24, 2024 11:41:39 GMT
Corbyn - and the other Independents - has shown that the party machine can be beaten. With hindsight, it looks highly likely that Abbott would have been re-elected had she stood as an Independent.Corbyn now has a group of potentially 8 supporters - plus the Muslim Independents elected at the GE.At some point, might we see Corbyn -supported Independents standing at by elections when they come along? But, they are exceptional cases. They have the long term incumbency and the deserved popularity from that incumbency to carry them through the adversity of standing against the the Party, perhaps once or even twice? I don't think Abbott would have held her seat as an independent. She has less prominence, less charisma, had not been the party's leader for years, looked old and frail, looked 'past it', could not have campaigned hard on the stump. She would have failed, perhaps not by much? I think it would have been a clear defeat. But, why were they there, in place, with incumbency and popularity? Entirely because they had enjoyed the favour of the party, that had plucked them from obscurity and gifted them an established safe seat of the party's creation over 100-years of patient effort by OTHERS! This is not about individuals it is about party cohesion and toeing the line, as one should most of the time. These irregulars and rebels are passengers, even parasites on the party's body. They take advantage of being chosen, incumbency, salary and support to 'do their own thing' like the uber-narcissists they have always been. They posture and preen against the anonymous hard work of hundreds of others who silently make the party work well and efficiently. I don't like that sort of person, in a family, in a team, in a political party or at work. They are a nuisance and disruptive. They create the wrong climate and always need to be eased out, prised out or culled. Up to them! The extent of support for Faisal Shaheen in Chingford & Woodford Green persuades me that Abbott would have prevailed as an Independent - as does the election of 5 Independents and the candidates who ran Wes Streeting and Jess Phillips very close.
Abbott did not owe her selection as candidate to patronage at all . In 1987 she impressed her CLP to such an extent that she was chosen in preference to the sitting MP!
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Post by carlton43 on Jul 24, 2024 11:48:42 GMT
But, they are exceptional cases. They have the long term incumbency and the deserved popularity from that incumbency to carry them through the adversity of standing against the the Party, perhaps once or even twice? I don't think Abbott would have held her seat as an independent. She has less prominence, less charisma, had not been the party's leader for years, looked old and frail, looked 'past it', could not have campaigned hard on the stump. She would have failed, perhaps not by much? I think it would have been a clear defeat. But, why were they there, in place, with incumbency and popularity? Entirely because they had enjoyed the favour of the party, that had plucked them from obscurity and gifted them an established safe seat of the party's creation over 100-years of patient effort by OTHERS! This is not about individuals it is about party cohesion and toeing the line, as one should most of the time. These irregulars and rebels are passengers, even parasites on the party's body. They take advantage of being chosen, incumbency, salary and support to 'do their own thing' like the uber-narcissists they have always been. They posture and preen against the anonymous hard work of hundreds of others who silently make the party work well and efficiently. I don't like that sort of person, in a family, in a team, in a political party or at work. They are a nuisance and disruptive. They create the wrong climate and always need to be eased out, prised out or culled. Up to them! The extent of support for Faisal Shaheen in Chingford & Woodford Green persuades me that Abbott would have prevailed as an Independent - as does the election of 5 Independents and the candidates who ran Wes Streeting and Jess Phillips very close.
Abbott did not owe her selection as candidate to patronage at all . In 1987 she impressed her CLP to such an extent that she was chosen in preference to the sitting MP!
Or, let us put it another quite valid way Graham; as a rather factional young person she 'persuaded' a deeply factionalist part of a dominated CLP to choose her over a less favoured incumbent; which is nearly exactly what happened to her, and should have happened to her this year. A moment of weakness by Starmer, bit not one of great consequence, as Abbott is unlikely to be a regular attender and he doesn't need the 'numbers'!
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Jul 24, 2024 11:52:59 GMT
It would certainly have been interesting to observe the response of "certain people" if Rosie Duffield had turned up yesterday, rebelled and had the whip suspended
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Post by Strontium Dog on Jul 24, 2024 11:59:25 GMT
Zarah S has just announced that she is the victim of "a macho virility test" - of Starmer, presumably. I don't think she's going back to Labour. And that's a Labour gain. see from everything I'm told internally she's done a huge amount to stay on side. Her CLP is firmly in the hands of the right but unlike other colleagues she was safely reselected I understand due to a very good relationship with the clp. She's apparently been keeping her head down during the election again unlike many of her colleagues Sounds like she was doing what she needed to do to be reselected. The old bait and switch.
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The Bishop
Labour
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Post by The Bishop on Jul 24, 2024 12:18:44 GMT
Nah, don't think that she actually wanted to have the whip removed last night.
She (and indeed most if not all of the 7) almost certainly thought that they would get away with a slap on the wrist.
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graham
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Post by graham on Jul 24, 2024 12:22:00 GMT
“Corbyn and other independents write to suspended Labour MPs
Jeremy Corbyn and four other independent MPs have written to the seven Labour MPs who lost the party whip for voting in support of scrapping the two-child benefit cap.
The letter says the Labour leadership has put “party before country” and welcomes more independent voices in Parliament who are “free to speak out against inequality and injustice without fear of repercussion from their party whip”.
It was signed by former Labour leader Mr Corbyn and Ayoub Khan, Adnan Hussain, Shockat Adam and Iqbal Mohamed.
The independent MPs said they “look forward to working closely” with the suspended Labour members: Apsana Begum, Imran Hussain, Rebecca Long-Bailey, Ian Byrne, Richard Burgon, Zarah Sultana and John McDonnell.
The letter adds: “As the two major parties fail to defend the bold changes this country desperately needs, we will be there to offer a real alternative – and to defend a society that cares for each other and cares for all.””
Telegraph
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Jul 24, 2024 12:29:09 GMT
There seem to have been deliberate abstentions by six more Labour MPs:
Kim Johnson (Liverpool Riverside) Ian Lavery (Blyth and Ashington) Noah Law (St Austell and Newquay) Bell Ribeiro-Addy (Clapham and Brixton Hill) Jon Trickett (Normanton and Hemsworth) Nadia Whittome (Nottingham East)
Incidentally Sir John Hayes (Conservative, South Holland and the Deepings) ignored instructions to abstain and voted No. Sarah Dyke (Glastonbury and Frome) did not vote in favour along with other Liberal Democrats, although she did vote for their amendment in the vote immediately afterwards.
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Post by mattbewilson on Jul 24, 2024 12:35:19 GMT
There seem to have been deliberate abstentions by six more Labour MPs: Kim Johnson (Liverpool Riverside) Ian Lavery (Blyth and Ashington) Noah Law (St Austell and Newquay) Bell Ribeiro-Addy (Clapham and Brixton Hill) Jon Trickett (Normanton and Hemsworth) Nadia Whittome (Nottingham East) Incidentally Sir John Hayes (Conservative, South Holland and the Deepings) ignored instructions to abstain and voted No. Sarah Dyke (Glastonbury and Frome) did not vote in favour along with other Liberal Democrats, although she did vote for their amendment in the vote immediately afterwards. I saw this about Noah Law, does anyone know who he is. His Wiki is very bare
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Post by matureleft on Jul 24, 2024 13:30:14 GMT
Nah, don't think that she actually wanted to have the whip removed last night. She (and indeed most if not all of the 7) almost certainly thought that they would get away with a slap on the wrist. Do you think that the whips failed to explain the consequence of their actions? Or, I suppose an alternative, that they chose not to interact with the whips?
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Post by johnloony on Jul 24, 2024 14:29:26 GMT
Nah, don't think that she actually wanted to have the whip removed last night. She (and indeed most if not all of the 7) almost certainly thought that they would get away with a slap on the wrist. They were specifically warned in advance otherwise.
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maxque
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Post by maxque on Jul 24, 2024 15:29:04 GMT
Labour colleagues suffered abuse and bullying due to the biaised position of Starmer in the aftermath of the event, mainly. I think according to yourself Starmer is responsible for every negative outcome and feature in the entire world That is not true, however, he seems totally incapable of any self-criticism or admit he was ever wrong, which is a very worrying feature from a world leader.
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r34t
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Post by r34t on Jul 24, 2024 16:07:15 GMT
Nah, don't think that she actually wanted to have the whip removed last night. She (and indeed most if not all of the 7) almost certainly thought that they would get away with a slap on the wrist. They were specifically warned in advance otherwise. What whips say & what whips do can be (& often are) entirely different things .....
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