Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
Posts: 16,029
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Post by Sibboleth on Jul 25, 2018 18:00:20 GMT
They're often pretty sketchy and there's not much detail from some, but various exit polls suggest a PTI lead. One of the Sky channels is showing it, I have not a clue as to what is going on but the numbers being flashed up suggest a disaster for the PPP and the PTI and Fianna Nawaz not being far off each other. PPP seem to be fairly stable on last time (which o/c was a poor election!) based on most of the numbers flying around. Gap between PTI and PML-N in most recent estimates now rather larger than one might have assumed plausible from pre-election polling. Ahem. |
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Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
Posts: 16,029
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Post by Sibboleth on Jul 25, 2018 18:13:09 GMT
Little doubt now that Khan has won - it's just a question of whether there's a PTI majority or not. Quite possibly in the sense of whether it is decided to 'find' the votes to allow for this.
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Post by timrollpickering on Jul 25, 2018 18:19:57 GMT
Strong reports of an unusual (by Pakistani standards) search for those votes.
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CatholicLeft
Labour
2032 posts until I was "accidentally" deleted.
Posts: 6,723
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Post by CatholicLeft on Jul 25, 2018 18:24:04 GMT
Little doubt now that Khan has won - it's just a question of whether there's a PTI majority or not. Quite possibly in the sense of whether it is decided to 'find' the votes to allow for this. I can't really see PTI getting a majority, not least as it keeps him fairly weak if in coalition, so wht would the military bother to "over-find" votes? Interestingly, this could be good for PPP on the long run, if Khan fails and Bhutto Zardari Jr. finally finds his political chops. |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Jul 25, 2018 18:28:03 GMT
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Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
Posts: 16,029
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Post by Sibboleth on Jul 25, 2018 18:42:43 GMT
I can't really see PTI getting a majority, not least as it keeps him fairly weak if in coalition, so wht would the military bother to "over-find" votes? Logically speaking you'd think so, but the antics of the Deep State in Pakistan have a tendency to defy logic sometimes. Possible. If the military are as keen as they seem to be on getting rid of Nawaz for good and cripple the PML-N in opposition as well, then they might be left as the only loud opposition voice. But we shall see. |
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Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
Posts: 16,029
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Post by Sibboleth on Jul 25, 2018 18:48:54 GMT
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Post by dizz on Jul 25, 2018 22:50:21 GMT
enjoy;
ppp holding up well in sind.
keyboard needs replacing..
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Jul 25, 2018 23:31:52 GMT
ppp holding up well in sind. Peccavi. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jul 26, 2018 8:12:56 GMT
As rum as Khan is, there's a certain amusing irony in Fianna Nawaz complaining that somebody else is involved in dodgy activities.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jul 26, 2018 8:15:58 GMT
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Post by yellowperil on Jul 26, 2018 8:28:40 GMT
A pun on the Latin for "I have sinned" - allegedly said by the British General Sir Charles Napier on the defeat of the Amirs of Sind in 1843 yes we do know  - this would have worked better this time if Oudh was also in Pakistan. |
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Post by yellowperil on Jul 26, 2018 10:53:05 GMT
Napier is an interesting guy- he is best known now in terms of his India career but he was also very prominent in radical political circles in Bath in the 1840s and was used to put down the Chartists but was far more sympathetic to their cause than he was to his political masters who employed him for the task.Now occupies the SW plinth in Trafalgar Square of course.A combination of a very professional - and ruthless- soldier and a radical liberal politician is rather unusual.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2018 11:04:47 GMT
Napier is an interesting guy- he is best known now in terms of his India career but he was also very prominent in radical political circles in Bath in the 1840s and was used to put down the Chartists but was far more sympathetic to their cause than he was to his political masters who employed him for the task.Now occupies the SW plinth in Trafalgar Square of course.A combination of a very professional - and ruthless- soldier and a radical liberal politician is rather unusual. Maj Gen Sir Henry Havelock is on the S E plinth - we walked past him yesterday on our way to the NPG. Ken Livingstone suggested in 2000 that they both be removed. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jul 26, 2018 11:32:14 GMT
Apparently Ahmadis are effectively banned from voting by being forced to register only on an Ahmadi-only list, which of course is open to those who wish to do them harm. Grim.
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Jul 26, 2018 12:47:29 GMT
Maj Gen Sir Henry Havelock is on the S E plinth - we walked past him yesterday on our way to the NPG. Ken Livingstone suggested in 2000 that they both be removed. Ken was right we need statues people can identify with. Havelock and Napier are warnings of the risk in putting up statues that contemporaries "identify with". Popular military heroes at the date of erection, within 50 years they were largely forgotten figures even within their own field. Even amongst the very narrow category of "Great Victorian Generals" Garnett Wolsey, Roberts, and Kitchener (off top of my head) would be better candidates - but Havelock and Napier were household names at the time. Funnily enough the statue of Edward Jenner, a genuinely titanic figure in his field, was removed. |
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Post by yellowperil on Jul 26, 2018 13:05:10 GMT
Maj Gen Sir Henry Havelock is on the S E plinth - we walked past him yesterday on our way to the NPG. Ken Livingstone suggested in 2000 that they both be removed. Ken was right we need statues people can identify with. I identify with Napier |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Jul 26, 2018 13:10:05 GMT
Ken was right we need statues people can identify with. Havelock and Napier are warnings of the risk in putting up statues that contemporaries "identify with". Popular military heroes at the date of erection, within 50 years they were largely forgotten figures even within their own field. Even amongst the very narrow category of "Great Victorian Generals" Garnett Wolsey, Roberts, and Kitchener (off top of my head) would be better candidates - but Havelock and Napier were household names at the time. Funnily enough the statue of Edward Jenner, a genuinely titanic figure in his field, was removed. This puts me in mind of the subject of writers and their popularity. Not a shock where I'm going here given my love of Saki. But I was reading an article about Gerhart Hauptmann the other day. Once one of the most popular, famous playwrights not just in Germany but on earth. He was famous enough to be asked to run for president of Germany, and even once was asked to be Chancellor. Now he is mostly forgotten outside academic circles (although I'm sure finsobruce might have encountered revivals). A not dissimilar figure here is Arnold Bennett, whose fame was really staggeringly huge. Were it not for the Jungle Book, we'd probably count Kipling in there. Voltaire was best known in his lifetime as a playwright, but his plays (which are appalling) are barely staged these days. Similarly, a look at a list of Nobel Prize laureates for literature turns up a variety of people who were staggeringly popular and famous in their day, but are mainly forgotten by the wider public. Mistral, Hauptmann, Maeterlinck, Spitteler, Galsworthy (arguably), Mauriac (certainly outside France), for example. The various Soviet writers enforced by the state, all manner of Italian writers in the early twentieth century, there are loads more. And then there are some who I bet not many people younger than me remember. My dad used to hand me books by the likes of Anthony Hope and Raphael Sabatini (I can already sense carlton43 nodding in approval), who were still widely read into the Seventies. As per your point on statues, the most surprising people drift out of the public conscious. The flipside is that some surprisingly stay put or come back. Jane Austen's popularity really dates from the 1880s, for example. |
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Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
Posts: 16,029
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Post by Sibboleth on Jul 26, 2018 14:33:12 GMT
Napier, of course, did not send a dispatch saying 'peccavi': it was a joke sent into Punch, who printed it as if it were true.
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Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
Posts: 16,029
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Post by Sibboleth on Jul 26, 2018 14:42:00 GMT
Anyway, this has all been done in such a shabby and amateurish manner that it's somehow more depressing than if the poll was rigged competently...
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- this would have worked better this time if Oudh was also in Pakistan.