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Post by markgoodair on Aug 31, 2014 21:49:02 GMT
Will the euro weaken on there results?
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Richard Allen
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Post by Richard Allen on Aug 31, 2014 23:06:56 GMT
Die Linke are the direct legal descendant of the SED. The NPD are not the direct legal descendant of the NSDAP. OK, then the nearest lineal descendant of the NSDAP is something that has since merged into your European Liberal allies the FDP. Points to how stupid you are being. You really should try and acquire a sense of humour and not take everything overly serious. |
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Richard Allen
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Post by Richard Allen on Aug 31, 2014 23:13:31 GMT
NPD Raus!  4.951% CDU 59; SED 27; SPD 18; AfD 14; GRÜ 8 I haven't followed this closely but is there any chance of a CDU/AfD deal? I know that federally the CDU claim to against such a deal but now the possibility is real I could imagine some of the Saxony CDU leadership would prefer it to the other options. |
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Sibboleth
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Post by Sibboleth on Aug 31, 2014 23:39:08 GMT
Of course the eastern CDU are tainted by the old regime as well.
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Sibboleth
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Post by Sibboleth on Aug 31, 2014 23:39:37 GMT
So the Nazis are out? 'bout fucking time.
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maxque
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Post by maxque on Aug 31, 2014 23:43:24 GMT
NPD Raus! 4.951% CDU 59; SED 27; SPD 18; AfD 14; GRÜ 8 I haven't followed this closely but is there any chance of a CDU/AfD deal? I know that federally the CDU claim to against such a deal but now the possibility is real I could imagine some of the Saxony CDU leadership would prefer it to the other options. I doubt it's possible. Merkel is against. If the Saxony CDU leadership forced it, I would expect it to end like the attempted SPD-Linke coalition in Hesse. Some "MPs" will (or would, if they check with them beforehand) refuse to vote for the coalition. |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Sept 1, 2014 0:00:22 GMT
OK, then the nearest lineal descendant of the NSDAP is something that has since merged into your European Liberal allies the FDP. Points to how stupid you are being. You really should try and acquire a sense of humour and not take everything overly serious. If you are reporting fact you should try to do so in a factual way. You should not embellish it with pejorative terms or deliberate misreporting. Anything like that renders you suspect as a conveyor of fact. If you want to tell me that that is unhumorous I accept the complement. |
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Richard Allen
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Post by Richard Allen on Sept 1, 2014 0:50:27 GMT
You really should try and acquire a sense of humour and not take everything overly serious. If you are reporting fact you should try to do so in a factual way. You should not embellish it with pejorative terms or deliberate misreporting. Anything like that renders you suspect as a conveyor of fact. If you want to tell me that that is unhumorous I accept the complement. This is a discussion forum not an encyclopaedia and nobody here is confused by Iain's use of "SED". To complain about it is pretty pathetic. |
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Post by markgoodair on Sept 1, 2014 6:38:36 GMT
Narrow escapes for the Greens and NPD, in fact a surprisingly good result for the NPD. A disaster for the FDP as expected, but this is the East so this could be rock bottom. The victors here are AfD. Over 10% is a stonkingly good result, and exceeds the high water mark of the NPD in Saxony in 2004. To be fair yesterday's results for the FDP were not their worst. In 1994 they managed 1.7% and in 1999 even worse with 1.1%. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Sept 1, 2014 7:13:19 GMT
NPD Raus! 4.951% CDU 59; SED 27; SPD 18; AfD 14; GRÜ 8 I haven't followed this closely but is there any chance of a CDU/AfD deal? I know that federally the CDU claim to against such a deal but now the possibility is real I could imagine some of the Saxony CDU leadership would prefer it to the other options. I don't necessarily disagree with maxque's prognosis, but I don't think a CDU-AfD deal can be entirely ruled out. Mutti will prefer a Grand Coalition in the circumstances, but I'd imagine that the AfD fish in waters that the CDU either partly do or have not been able to (i.e. disillusioned voters), and therefore the local CDU might decide to tell her to get stuffed. As the AfD are not culturally or socially hardline, this should work in their favour, as the CDU Minister-President Tillich is a Sorb, and therefore would be less likely to get involved with them if they displayed some of the more...ahem...unpleasant traits of past groupings to the right of the CDU. The question from my side is- what is the best course for AfD? Do they stand in opposition and avoid the taint of the coalition, or do they burnish their credentials as a party to be trusted in government by joining in? My thoughts are that the latter would be their best plan in the relatively low-risk environment of a Landtag. Saxony used to have a reputation stretching back to Weimar days of strange politics, so watch this space. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Sept 1, 2014 7:28:56 GMT
Of course the eastern CDU are tainted by the old regime as well. That's true to an extent, but it must be remembered that party membership in the East was a very complicated thing. A lot of people joined the satellite parties so that they could be clearly non-SED without risking the chance of ending up in prison or being excluded from jobs and education. If you a SPD sympathiser, this route wasn't even open to you. Some were more likely simply opportunists. |
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carlton43
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Post by carlton43 on Sept 1, 2014 8:40:11 GMT
I haven't followed this closely but is there any chance of a CDU/AfD deal? I know that federally the CDU claim to against such a deal but now the possibility is real I could imagine some of the Saxony CDU leadership would prefer it to the other options. I don't necessarily disagree with maxque's prognosis, but I don't think a CDU-AfD deal can be entirely ruled out. Mutti will prefer a Grand Coalition in the circumstances, but I'd imagine that the AfD fish in waters that the CDU either partly do or have not been able to (i.e. disillusioned voters), and therefore the local CDU might decide to tell her to get stuffed. As the AfD are not culturally or socially hardline, this should work in their favour, as the CDU Minister-President Tillich is a Sorb, and therefore would be less likely to get involved with them if they displayed some of the more...ahem...unpleasant traits of past groupings to the right of the CDU. The question from my side is- what is the best course for AfD? Do they stand in opposition and avoid the taint of the coalition, or do they burnish their credentials as a party to be trusted in government by joining in? My thoughts are that the latter would be their best plan in the relatively low-risk environment of a Landtag. Saxony used to have a reputation stretching back to Weimar days of strange politics, so watch this space. Surely AfD trade heavily upon distance and difference? They are the intelligent persons protest and rightist and limited radical and new thinking party. The taint of complicity with the old crew would IMO nip out the very satisfactory rate of growth. |
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neilm
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Post by neilm on Sept 1, 2014 9:44:12 GMT
Is there substantial crossover between ex FDP voters and AfD voters?
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Post by iainbhx on Sept 1, 2014 11:29:26 GMT
Is there substantial crossover between ex FDP voters and AfD voters? Have to look at the exit polls switch analysis for that. On the surface, it does look like it, but there may be substantial churn. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Sept 1, 2014 12:22:51 GMT
Is there substantial crossover between ex FDP voters and AfD voters? Have to look at the exit polls switch analysis for that. On the surface, it does look like it, but there may be substantial churn. I favour the churn argument. I suspect that a lot comes from a mix of FDP, CDU and even NPD. But probably the softer vote for the FDP, because after all, the FDP have always been vehemently pro-European. I think there's an argument to be had that the AfD could become the second force on the Right that Die Republikaner failed to become despite their efforts. To answer carlton43, I think co-operation over opposition would come more naturally to the AfD hierachy. They're interested neither in populism nor in being a testimonial party, they really do seem to want to be involved in governing. |
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carlton43
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Post by carlton43 on Sept 1, 2014 13:35:24 GMT
Have to look at the exit polls switch analysis for that. On the surface, it does look like it, but there may be substantial churn. I favour the churn argument. I suspect that a lot comes from a mix of FDP, CDU and even NPD. But probably the softer vote for the FDP, because after all, the FDP have always been vehemently pro-European. I think there's an argument to be had that the AfD could become the second force on the Right that Die Republikaner failed to become despite their efforts. To answer carlton43, I think co-operation over opposition would come more naturally to the AfD hierachy. They're interested neither in populism nor in being a testimonial party, they really do seem to want to be involved in governing. Yes, I can accept that as to the hierarchy dw, but as to the mere supporters by vote, they may have to exercise care to be separate and clearly different if they want to continue growing in this manner. |
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Post by psephos on Sept 1, 2014 18:12:18 GMT
Is it discrimination for Iain to refer to Die Linke as the SED, but not to refer to the NPD as the NSDAP? Or is it just stupid for him to refer to Die Linke as the SED? You must either be dumb as a coot (which I doubt) or plain blind not to see the difference. The NSDAP were dissolved in 1945 and are not the forefathers of either the NPD or the FDP. Die Linke were formed from a merger, of which the PDS were the largest component; the PDS was the legal and actual successor of the SED. No German party today bears the taint of Hitlerism, but one proudly bears the badge of Stalin, Ulbricht, Onkel Erich, and their murderous purges. You're meant to be a social democrat; why stand up for Communists? |
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neilm
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Post by neilm on Sept 1, 2014 18:35:20 GMT
I'm with David on this one. Die Linke aren't the SED, however amusing it might be to call them that. We don't refer to the Labour Representation Committee, or the Ecologists, or the Alliance so why use an incorrect name in another country? It would be just as accurate to refer to them as the PDS.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2014 20:53:31 GMT
And we don't generally refer to Unlock Democracy as the CPGB either.  |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Sept 1, 2014 20:56:47 GMT
I'm with David on this one. Die Linke aren't the SED, however amusing it might be to call them that. We don't refer to the Labour Representation Committee, or the Ecologists, or the Alliance so why use an incorrect name in another country? It would be just as accurate to refer to them as the PDS. Yes, but none of those parties has blood on its hands, and none of them have continued to act as apologists for murder and oppression. |
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