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Post by timrollpickering on Jun 18, 2024 10:02:22 GMT
Labour did it because the EU told them to. Pro-eu governments almost always tried to take responsibility for things that were the EU's responsibility because they didn't want to let the cat out of the bag as to how much power - which belongs to the people - had been given away to the EU This was one of these messes of the mixture of aspirations and committments. The Treaty of Rome called for the EEC Parliament to develop proposals for direct election under a uniform system but this never came off and it remains an aspiration. (It wasn't just the UK and Ireland who had objections. Other countries had their own issues, in particular about whether or not to have a regional element that could boost separatists.) Come 1976 there was agreement to hold direct elections but individual member states chose their systems. Due to the Lib-Lab Pact the Commons had a free vote between open lists and first past the post and chose the latter. For the next few decades member states continued using a mixture of voting systems with only occasional attempts to encourage them to move towards a common system. Labour's 1990s support for change originated with an internal working party chaired by Lord Plant. It was partially related to proposals for an elected second chamber (in particular avoiding having too many different voting systems) and argued much of the rationale for FPTP for the Commons did not apply to the EU Parliament because of its different role, in particular not forming an executive. This was adopted as policy during John Smith's leadership (with Blair the portfolio holder) and retained under New Labour. The Cook-Maclennan agreement committed both Labour and the Lib Dems to a regional list system. However the 1997 manifesto only stated "We have long supported a proportional voting system for election to the European Parliament", without detail. (In particular nothing had been clear about closed vs open lists). In government it was unclear for a couple of months whether there would be changes for 1999 but in July it was announced legislation would be brought forward. The 1999 elections could have used FPTP, either if the government had decided the change was not a priority for the first two years of legislation, or if it failed to get the change through the Lords. There was a battle over closed vs open lists which nearly derailed the Bill and ultimately had the Parliament Act invoked. During this period the Amsterdam Treaty committed states to "common principles", a watering down of the uniform system, and in 2002 a directive committed to PR in full (along with other changes, wasn't this the one that targetted dual mandates?). So in summary the UK could have used FPTP in 1999 and probably have held out subsequently or even reverted but for the 2002 directive. |
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Post by thinwhiteduke on Aug 31, 2024 17:44:05 GMT
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stb12
Top Poster
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Post by stb12 on Aug 31, 2024 19:59:52 GMT
Does seem like the inevitability of Sinn Fein forming the next government in ROI has gone |
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Post by mattbewilson on Aug 31, 2024 20:44:01 GMT
Does seem like the inevitability of Sinn Fein forming the next government in ROI has gone feels like 2016 again |
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Post by thinwhiteduke on Sept 1, 2024 12:33:42 GMT
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Post by mattbewilson on Sept 1, 2024 14:51:44 GMT
my wife keeps telling me how much she'd like to live in Ireland but the options available to you on the ballot are depressing |
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Post by carlton43 on Sept 1, 2024 14:56:55 GMT
my wife keeps telling me how much she'd like to live in Ireland but the options available to you on the ballot are depressing In a list of 100 considerations for moving, that would not figure on it for me. |
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Foggy
Non-Aligned
Yn Ennill Yma
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Post by Foggy on Sept 1, 2024 14:58:25 GMT
If I were living in Ireland, then depending on which constituency I ended up in the number of preferences I'd want to fill in could well be zero.
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Post by mattbewilson on Sept 1, 2024 15:45:15 GMT
my wife keeps telling me how much she'd like to live in Ireland but the options available to you on the ballot are depressing In a list of 100 considerations for moving, that would not figure on it for me. I'm probably very sad but knowing who I'd vote for/campaign for us/stand for/work for is something I consider when moving |
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Post by mattbewilson on Sept 1, 2024 15:46:08 GMT
If I were living in Ireland, then depending on which constituency I ended up in the number of preferences I'd want to fill in could well be zero. I'd vote for someone but like you say depends on the constituency |
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Post by irish observer on Sept 6, 2024 19:23:03 GMT
Lot of speculation in ROI at the moment about an election in November. A lot of candidate selections being ramped up. Regular reports of TDs and Senators who are exiting politics. Despite Government denials the Budget has been brought forward. The former Minister for Finance, Michael McGrath, has been appointed EU Commissioner, but has as of yet not been assigned his Portfolio. The incumbent, Mairead McGuinness of the FG House, holds Trade, which FF would aspire to for kudos and for economic influence as this is actually a FF Big Beast sent to a prime post in Europe for a change. McGrath has long had rows with his fellow Minister, Pascal Donohoe of FG, with whom he deivides the Finance Portfolio and the Budget. 2 Ministers speak on Budget Day for the past 10 years or so, Finance and Public Expenditure which was initially a tug of the forelock to the Labour party when FG/Lab were in Coalition but it has neutralised some of the impact of the most significant Ministry of an Irish Government. Seriously? Imagine the Chancellor of the Exchequer agreeing to share half his time with Public Expenditure or the Equivalent while the latter prevents him from a top job in ECOFIN through FG Colleagues in the EPP.
All FF and non-FG MEPS voted against Ursula Von der Leyen's re-appointment as Head of the Commission. She has threatened to diminish Ireland's ie FF's position in the Commission as a result. If this is carried out it will be a political threat.
FG have decided to go for an early election having had a successful Local Elections despite losing some net seats they blooded new candidates but lost the European elections. They have successfully spun a narrative that SF were the big losers despite them gaining a MEP seat and c.25 Council seats though they should have done much better on the latter as an anti-Government referendum. Simon Harris is now the most popular leader and is hoping he can get re-elected accordingly with a Presidential style campaign.
I would focus on the likeability of the Leaders at the moment. Harris is popular. Martin is second then Cairns who is very photogenic and likeable to a cohort of the electorate and the Soc Dems may gain as a result. Greens are in trouble. SF's leader is seen as angry. She will rely on other party spokespeople or possibly the Northern Command who had a tremendously successful election where they basically swept the boards as the leaders of Northern Nationalism 100%. Labour are irrelevant as I see it.
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Post by irish observer on Sept 6, 2024 21:12:53 GMT
Obviously the focus of the early election will be getting the Budget right and getting a bounce in the opinion polls and the media accordingly. However, it is apparent that the Irish economy is showing signs of creaking into a recession. While net migration outpaces net immigration at present and has done for the past decade or so structural problems within the economy especially within the public sector remain. National wage agreements are burdensome and questionmarks over long-term competitiveness have to be asked. A pension time-bomb is looming as the population ages and the baby boom has slowed since the 1990s with declines in fertility. At the same time simply throwing money at the problem won't fix structural blockages in the economy. In the Rainbow Coalition Richard Bruton, an Economist, when Minister for Education, wanted to make Enterprise a mandatory subject for the Junior Cert. An excellent idea, applauded by any Economist of the day and students of Commerce and Finance still and that was from 1995-7. He was blocked by his own Department who lobbied against him to the Labour Party who got the Teacher's Unions to oppose the idea because it would have moved it away from "academia." A sad fact of a progressive change in education that was pre-Celtic Tiger.
For too long in this country people who are qualified economists haven't been in the right positions to influence change. Paschal Donohoe came from the Private Sector and took a pay cut to run for the Dáil, he's running again in Dublin Central and gave up his job in Finance to become a TD. Many of our current TDs are barristers/solicitors who also practise or teachers who employ someone to retain their job on a temporary basis when they become a TD. Even George Lee when elected a TD and then quit in a fit of pique returned to his RTE safety net. Routes to become Dáil TDs in this country are often laid out or marked out years or decades in advance. I don't know if there's any other political system where its so insular. Is there a comparable one?
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Post by uthacalthing on Sept 10, 2024 20:22:30 GMT
Why are Mary Lous figures so low? |
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Post by mattbewilson on Sept 10, 2024 20:36:12 GMT
Why are Mary Lous figures so low? recent slap on the wrist for attendance of IRA funeral during COVID? |
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CatholicLeft
Labour
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Post by CatholicLeft on Sept 14, 2024 22:09:21 GMT
Simob Harris has to go for an early election, or he could be wrong-footed by the requirement to hold byelections in Dublin Bay North, Laois-Offaly, Clare, Carlow-Kilkenny, after the EP elections of 4 sitting TDs and a second TD resigning in Clare on health grounds. He should study the example of James Callaghan and his "There was I, waiting at the church..." speech to Conference in 1978. x.com/gavreilly/status/1835047964366041520?t=XjVDZD3MOfERPcXKDOWzqw&s=19 |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Sept 16, 2024 10:02:25 GMT
So FF want the election in the new year, but no byelections in the interim.
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swanarcadian
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Post by swanarcadian on Sept 16, 2024 11:06:02 GMT
So FF want the election in the new year, but no byelections in the interim. Do they usually wait longer to hold by-elections in Ireland than we do? That would be unacceptable here even if we had fixed term Parliaments. |
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stb12
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Post by stb12 on Sept 16, 2024 11:37:20 GMT
So FF want the election in the new year, but no byelections in the interim. Do they usually wait longer to hold by-elections in Ireland than we do? That would be unacceptable here even if we had fixed term Parliaments. I suppose from a local point of view with the multi-member system the argument can be made that the constituencies aren’t left unrepresented like they are in Westminster |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Sept 16, 2024 11:44:22 GMT
It's not entirely unknown for vacancies in Dáil Êireann to be left unfilled for a long time - Dublin South had a vacant seat for just under a year in 2010-11.
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Post by johnloony on Sept 16, 2024 13:37:43 GMT
Do they usually wait longer to hold by-elections in Ireland than we do? That would be unacceptable here even if we had fixed term Parliaments. I suppose from a local point of view with the multi-member system the argument can be made that the constituencies aren’t left unrepresented like they are in Westminster When we have parliamentary by-elections here in the UK, if there are two or three on the same day, I sometimes fantasise about having a by-election by STV whereby the 3 constituencies with vacancies elect 3 MPs collectively rather than individually. |
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