Lewisham East

[Tony Otim]

Ah - hadn't realised there were boundary changes looming for next year.

Meanwhile, back in Lewisham ...

[Deleted]

Jun 4, 2018 14:41:48 GMT Tony Otim said:

Ah - hadn't realised there were boundary changes looming for next year.

Meanwhile, back in Lewisham ...

no boundary changes in lewisham east just yet

[andrew111]

www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/if-i-m-elected-there-will-need-to-be-some-brexit-conversations-with-corbyn-lewisham-east-candidate-a3854416.html

After 3 weeks of keeping the candidate completely away from the media Labour feel the need to re-assert her anti-Brexit credentials (without actually promising anything specific, of course!).

Interesting...

[johnloony]

You may remember that I originally wrote this email to the returning officers in Copeland and Stoke-on-Trent in February 2017, and that I did not receive a reply from either of them despite explicitly requesting an acknowledgment.

Dear Sir or Madam,

In recent years I have become increasingly concerned about the quality of the declaration of the results of some parliamentary by-elections. From chatting with other psephologists on the internet and in real life, I know that my concerns are shared by many other people.

Far too often there are declarations which are not clear, because the returning officer (or A.R.O. or D.A.R.O., as the case may be) reads out the number of votes for the candidate (this usually happens with the winning candidate or the candidate in second place, but it can be any) but the last two or three digits are drowned out by the sound of the crowd cheering. For those of us who are staying up late and listening to the declaration on TV, it is most frustrating if we are not able to hear the last few digits and if they are not repeated clearly. There have been some parliamentary by-elections in recent years in which the R.O. continued with the rest of the declaration without clarifying or repeating the number which had been drowned out by the cheering. There was even one case in which incorrect figures were published on the relevant council's website because the person in charge of the website had him/herself not been given the correct figures to type, and who presumably misheard like everybody else. In several cases it has taken several minutes - or even an hour or so - after a declaration, before the correct figures are clarified and confirmed.

Therefore, I would humbly request that you should make sure that the Returning Officer in your location this month will:
(a) repeat any numbers which are drowned out by cheering, preferably by listing the digits of each number individually;
(b) be especially careful and clear in enunciating the number if it ends with "-teen" or "-ty";
(c) make sure that the correct figures are made available to the person in charge of the council's website, and make sure that they are published on the website as soon as possible after the declaration.

I would prefer not to have to write to ask you any of this, but experience has shown that a small but significant number of Returning Officers have not had the common sense to do these things on their own initiative. I hope that you can email back to confirm that you have understood this email and that it has been properly communicated to the person (RO, ARO or DARO as the case may be) who will be doing the declaration next week.

Yours sincerely

Yesterday I emailed the same thing to Lewisham, and I am able to report that I have today received a proper reply from the Electoral Services manager in Lewisham. He fully understands and agrees with everything I wrote, and will make sure that the declaration is arranged properly. We can trust him to do it properly because (as I was delighted to discover) he is someone who used to work in elections in Croydon (until 2012), and he remembers me specifically. I know that he is very efficient, and he knows that I am very anoraky. Thus , on this occasion, we will not have to worry about hearing the declaration or getting the numbers properly.

[Deleted]

Nice one John.

[Andrew_S]

Jun 6, 2018 12:35:57 GMT johnloony said:

You may remember that I originally wrote this email to the returning officers in Copeland and Stoke-on-Trent in February 2017, and that I did not receive a reply from either of them despite explicitly requesting an acknowledgment.

Dear Sir or Madam,

In recent years I have become increasingly concerned about the quality of the declaration of the results of some parliamentary by-elections. From chatting with other psephologists on the internet and in real life, I know that my concerns are shared by many other people.

Far too often there are declarations which are not clear, because the returning officer (or A.R.O. or D.A.R.O., as the case may be) reads out the number of votes for the candidate (this usually happens with the winning candidate or the candidate in second place, but it can be any) but the last two or three digits are drowned out by the sound of the crowd cheering. For those of us who are staying up late and listening to the declaration on TV, it is most frustrating if we are not able to hear the last few digits and if they are not repeated clearly. There have been some parliamentary by-elections in recent years in which the R.O. continued with the rest of the declaration without clarifying or repeating the number which had been drowned out by the cheering. There was even one case in which incorrect figures were published on the relevant council's website because the person in charge of the website had him/herself not been given the correct figures to type, and who presumably misheard like everybody else. In several cases it has taken several minutes - or even an hour or so - after a declaration, before the correct figures are clarified and confirmed.

Therefore, I would humbly request that you should make sure that the Returning Officer in your location this month will:
(a) repeat any numbers which are drowned out by cheering, preferably by listing the digits of each number individually;
(b) be especially careful and clear in enunciating the number if it ends with "-teen" or "-ty";
(c) make sure that the correct figures are made available to the person in charge of the council's website, and make sure that they are published on the website as soon as possible after the declaration.

I would prefer not to have to write to ask you any of this, but experience has shown that a small but significant number of Returning Officers have not had the common sense to do these things on their own initiative. I hope that you can email back to confirm that you have understood this email and that it has been properly communicated to the person (RO, ARO or DARO as the case may be) who will be doing the declaration next week.

Yours sincerely

Yesterday I emailed the same thing to Lewisham, and I am able to report that I have today received a proper reply from the Electoral Services manager in Lewisham. He fully understands and agrees with everything I wrote, and will make sure that the declaration is arranged properly. We can trust him to do it properly because (as I was delighted to discover) he is someone who used to work in elections in Croydon (until 2012), and he remembers me specifically. I know that he is very efficient, and he knows that I am very anoraky. Thus , on this occasion, we will not have to worry about hearing the declaration or getting the numbers properly.

The problem is that there is often so much whooping and cheering during declarations these days that the returning officer would have to wait for a long time in order for anyone to hear what they're going to say.

[LDCaerdydd]

Good lad John!

[mboy]

Jun 4, 2018 9:06:11 GMT Tony Otim said:

In the case of Norwich I'm not sure it's all down to Corbyn. Norwich Green party seem to have contributed to their own undoing to some extent.

Sounds like they learned a little bit too much from Norwich Lib Dems

[mondialito]

Jun 6, 2018 18:21:55 GMT Andrew_S said:

Jun 6, 2018 12:35:57 GMT johnloony said:

You may remember that I originally wrote this email to the returning officers in Copeland and Stoke-on-Trent in February 2017, and that I did not receive a reply from either of them despite explicitly requesting an acknowledgment.
Yesterday I emailed the same thing to Lewisham, and I am able to report that I have today received a proper reply from the Electoral Services manager in Lewisham. He fully understands and agrees with everything I wrote, and will make sure that the declaration is arranged properly. We can trust him to do it properly because (as I was delighted to discover) he is someone who used to work in elections in Croydon (until 2012), and he remembers me specifically. I know that he is very efficient, and he knows that I am very anoraky. Thus , on this occasion, we will not have to worry about hearing the declaration or getting the numbers properly.

The problem is that there is often so much whooping and cheering during declarations these days that the returning officer would have to wait for a long time in order for anyone to hear what they're going to say.

As long as this returning officer doesn't do a Galloway '97, it should be OK .

[Deleted]

Jun 6, 2018 20:08:51 GMT mondialito said:

Jun 6, 2018 18:21:55 GMT Andrew_S said:

The problem is that there is often so much whooping and cheering during declarations these days that the returning officer would have to wait for a long time in order for anyone to hear what they're going to say.

As long as this returning officer doesn't do a Galloway '97, it should be OK .

If you know, you know.

[greenchristian]

Jun 6, 2018 19:43:31 GMT mboy said:

Jun 4, 2018 9:06:11 GMT Tony Otim said:

In the case of Norwich I'm not sure it's all down to Corbyn. Norwich Green party seem to have contributed to their own undoing to some extent.

Sounds like they learned a little bit too much from Norwich Lib Dems

Indeed. Though I suspect the problems the Norwich Lib Dems had weren't quite as connected to almost all of the key people involved in the rise of the local party moving away from the area.

[johnloony]

Jun 6, 2018 18:21:55 GMT Andrew_S said:

Jun 6, 2018 12:35:57 GMT johnloony said:

You may remember that I originally wrote this email to the returning officers in Copeland and Stoke-on-Trent in February 2017, and that I did not receive a reply from either of them despite explicitly requesting an acknowledgment.
Yesterday I emailed the same thing to Lewisham, and I am able to report that I have today received a proper reply from the Electoral Services manager in Lewisham. He fully understands and agrees with everything I wrote, and will make sure that the declaration is arranged properly. We can trust him to do it properly because (as I was delighted to discover) he is someone who used to work in elections in Croydon (until 2012), and he remembers me specifically. I know that he is very efficient, and he knows that I am very anoraky. Thus , on this occasion, we will not have to worry about hearing the declaration or getting the numbers properly.

The problem is that there is often so much whooping and cheering during declarations these days that the returning officer would have to wait for a long time in order for anyone to hear what they're going to say.

A Returning Officer with sufficient experience of watching declarations (as well as doing declarations) would realise that the most effective way of dealing with that problem (i.e. how to shut them up) is to carry on with the declaration by repeating the name and number of the last candidate mentioned. Not by continuing with the next name, not by telling them or asking them to be quiet, but by rewinding and repeating the last name.

[johnloony]

Jun 6, 2018 20:08:51 GMT mondialito said:

Jun 6, 2018 18:21:55 GMT Andrew_S said:

The problem is that there is often so much whooping and cheering during declarations these days that the returning officer would have to wait for a long time in order for anyone to hear what they're going to say.

As long as this returning officer doesn't do a Galloway '97, it should be OK .

As I gradually get older and more grumpy, I sometimes find myself thinking that he had the right idea and that he should be emulated rather than ridiculed.

[timmullen1]

Jun 6, 2018 23:53:30 GMT johnloony said:

Jun 6, 2018 20:08:51 GMT mondialito said:

As long as this returning officer doesn't do a Galloway '97, it should be OK .

As I gradually get older and more grumpy, I sometimes find myself thinking that he had the right idea and that he should be emulated rather than ridiculed.

I had two problems with him - firstly it only sounded like there was a dozen people making a noise, and secondly why did he keep returning to Katy Clark and not just pick up where he paused? When they cheered the SNP total midway through somebody at our election party was heard to groan “oh [expletive deleted] he’s going to go back to Katy Clark again”. The other thought is how would he have handled Putney and the heckling of Mellor by James Goldsmith and the pro-gun guy.

[andrew111]

Interesting tweet below...Labour Central getting twitchy about Lewisham East??? Even Jezza went there today..

The Lib Dems seemed a bit unsure which by-election to focus on for a while but seem to be concentrating on Lewisham now... 6 visits by Vince Cable


Florence Eshalomi
‏Verified account @floeshalomi
6h6 hours ago

I’m sure labour members received the email (all 8 of them) about the #LewishamEast by election. For all my other south london peeps we also have an election in Southwark so please do come and help get our fab @southwarklabour candidates elected next Thursday 14 June

[Deleted]

Expectation. Management.

[Deleted]

Jun 7, 2018 19:53:01 GMT andrew111 said:

Interesting tweet below...Labour Central getting twitchy about Lewisham East??? Even Jezza went there today..

The Lib Dems seemed a bit unsure which by-election to focus on for a while but seem to be concentrating on Lewisham now... 6 visits by Vince Cable


Florence Eshalomi
‏Verified account @floeshalomi
6h6 hours ago

I’m sure labour members received the email (all 8 of them) about the #LewishamEast by election. For all my other south london peeps we also have an election in Southwark so please do come and help get our fab @southwarklabour candidates elected next Thursday 14 June

Is it unusual for party leaders to campaign in a parliamentary by election.

But no I haven't recieved any emails

[andrew111]

Jun 7, 2018 20:08:00 GMT @priceofdawn said:

Jun 7, 2018 19:53:01 GMT andrew111 said:

Interesting tweet below...Labour Central getting twitchy about Lewisham East??? Even Jezza went there today..

The Lib Dems seemed a bit unsure which by-election to focus on for a while but seem to be concentrating on Lewisham now... 6 visits by Vince Cable


Florence Eshalomi
‏Verified account @floeshalomi
6h6 hours ago

I’m sure labour members received the email (all 8 of them) about the #LewishamEast by election. For all my other south london peeps we also have an election in Southwark so please do come and help get our fab @southwarklabour candidates elected next Thursday 14 June

Is it unusual for party leaders to campaign in a parliamentary by election.

But no I haven't recieved any emails

Some sort of targeting then?

It is standard to get lots of emails about every by-election if you are a Lib Dem so it is hard to calibrate on that side.. Vince predicted second place quite confidently in the New European today, although that is quite a safe place to make erroneous predictions!

[East Anglian Lefty]

Jun 7, 2018 19:53:01 GMT andrew111 said:

Interesting tweet below...Labour Central getting twitchy about Lewisham East??? Even Jezza went there today..

The Lib Dems seemed a bit unsure which by-election to focus on for a while but seem to be concentrating on Lewisham now... 6 visits by Vince Cable


Florence Eshalomi
‏Verified account @floeshalomi
6h6 hours ago

I’m sure labour members received the email (all 8 of them) about the #LewishamEast by election. For all my other south london peeps we also have an election in Southwark so please do come and help get our fab @southwarklabour candidates elected next Thursday 14 June

Daft ramping aside, I think this possibly tells us more about how things are going in Southwark.

[Davıd Boothroyd]

Labour sending out eight identical emails inviting members to campaign in Lewisham East means there's someone in charge of sending out the all member emails who isn't good at mailing lists, not that Labour are getting jittery.