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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2018 11:11:16 GMT
I'd rather belong to a political party that's relevant but not popular than belong to a popular party whose principles I disagree with. There are only two parties larger than the Liberal Democrats, and I don't think you have to be someone who focuses on ultra-niche issues to not support either of those two. Of course, there are many people who couldn't stomach voting for the Conservatives or Labour who couldn't stomach voting for the Liberal Democrats either. I don't deny that. youre describing my childhood in St Albans where it was far more popular to support the Lib Dems but I couldn't abide the selling off of care homes, increasingly high council rent, lack of house building for affordable homes, happy to knock down trees for a new swimming pool tho, etc. So I supported someone else, someone who may not run the council but at least can influence its decisions and spend the locality budget on things people need |
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carlton43
Reform Party
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Post by carlton43 on Jun 15, 2018 11:47:23 GMT
What do you mean by relevant? You have a very distinctive pro-EU and anti-Brexit stance. That is already very relevant. It just doesn't seem to be very popular even with those of that persuasion, probably because there is more to life and thought than Brexit? Do you really mean engagement leading to a large mass vote and many more seats? That might be on the back of your one true friend 'Mr Protest Vote' which has nothing at all to do with being relevant but more to being dustbin-shaped. I have good news.....You are relevant. And bad news......You are still not popular. Relevant in terms of being a credible choice to voters in terms of winning elections. At the moment we can only realistically win in ~50 seats and most of those only in by-elections. To most of the voting population at the moment we are not a viable option, whether in protest or otherwise. And if I were you i'd be a little bit careful as just disregarding us as only useful as being a voter dustbin, because looking at votes in Remain-Tory seats you lot seem so determined to ignore, your voters seem to be taking us a bit more seriously than that. Most of our target seats are blue and given you couldn't win a working majority against Mr Corbyn while we're at a derisory share of the vote I would rate your chances of winning one when we've recovered even slightly as being very minimal. Plus having a policy of actually campaigning on our core beliefs rather than being the party of everything to everyone is far more likely to prevent coalition-style wipeouts in the future, so i'm more than content to be unpopular. It seems to work rather well for Labour and the Tories doesn't it? Now please don't trouble yourself on our behalf liverpoolliberal. We are quite capable of doing our own analysis and recrimination. Be mindful that your total seat aspirations amount to our majority expectations! My confusion with you is in the word 'relevant', which you seem to believe has something to do with success? It doesn't. Your relevance has everything to do with what you are saying and the quality of your MPs. Whereas your success is entirely structured around the unpopularity of one or both of the majors. You seem to think that the happening of some success 'makes you relevant'? It doesn't. It is entirely relative to us the two adults in the room. Sorry. But that is the reality. |
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carlton43
Reform Party
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Post by carlton43 on Jun 15, 2018 12:02:38 GMT
What do you mean by relevant? You have a very distinctive pro-EU and anti-Brexit stance. That is already very relevant. It just doesn't seem to be very popular even with those of that persuasion, probably because there is more to life and thought than Brexit? Do you really mean engagement leading to a large mass vote and many more seats? That might be on the back of your one true friend 'Mr Protest Vote' which has nothing at all to do with being relevant but more to being dustbin-shaped. I have good news.....You are relevant. And bad news......You are still not popular. Relevant in terms of being a credible choice to voters in terms of winning elections. At the moment we can only realistically win in ~50 seats and most of those only in by-elections. To most of the voting population at the moment we are not a viable option, whether in protest or otherwise. And if I were you i'd be a little bit careful as just disregarding us as only useful as being a voter dustbin, because looking at votes in Remain-Tory seats you lot seem so determined to ignore, your voters seem to be taking us a bit more seriously than that. Most of our target seats are blue and given you couldn't win a working majority against Mr Corbyn while we're at a derisory share of the vote I would rate your chances of winning one when we've recovered even slightly as being very minimal. Plus having a policy of actually campaigning on our core beliefs rather than being the party of everything to everyone is far more likely to prevent coalition-style wipeouts in the future, so i'm more than content to be unpopular. It seems to work rather well for Labour and the Tories doesn't it? And please don't run away with the thought that I think the LDs are 'only useful' as a dust bin for protest votes. I don't see them as being useful at all. 'A policy of actually campaigning on our core beliefs rather than being a party of everything for everyone'...............Actually stated with a straight face by of all people a Liberal-Democrat, the original Politicians of Bray Sir...........The party with a policy 'suit you Sir' for every area of Britain. Core policies!? What core policies? |
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mondialito
Labour
Everything is horribly, brutally possible.
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Post by mondialito on Jun 15, 2018 12:04:08 GMT
I'll see your delusional tweet and raise you... |
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Post by LDCaerdydd on Jun 15, 2018 12:10:53 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2018 12:10:56 GMT
I'll see your delusional tweet and raise you... Wow! |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Jun 15, 2018 12:29:52 GMT
The wider electorate are - for now - bored with Brexit, I agree. But in a couple of years when they see it as a mistake (as I strongly suspect they will), they will remember the Tories owned it, the LibDems opposed it and that Labour was missing. Then the LibDems will reap the rewards. Then the LibDems may reap the rewards. Or may not. Or maybe the whole debate will have moved on. Who knows ... I don't. |
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Post by liverpoolliberal on Jun 15, 2018 12:35:07 GMT
Relevant in terms of being a credible choice to voters in terms of winning elections. At the moment we can only realistically win in ~50 seats and most of those only in by-elections. To most of the voting population at the moment we are not a viable option, whether in protest or otherwise. And if I were you i'd be a little bit careful as just disregarding us as only useful as being a voter dustbin, because looking at votes in Remain-Tory seats you lot seem so determined to ignore, your voters seem to be taking us a bit more seriously than that. Most of our target seats are blue and given you couldn't win a working majority against Mr Corbyn while we're at a derisory share of the vote I would rate your chances of winning one when we've recovered even slightly as being very minimal. Plus having a policy of actually campaigning on our core beliefs rather than being the party of everything to everyone is far more likely to prevent coalition-style wipeouts in the future, so i'm more than content to be unpopular. It seems to work rather well for Labour and the Tories doesn't it? And please don't run away with the thought that I think the LDs are 'only useful' as a dust bin for protest votes. I don't see them as being useful at all. 'A policy of actually campaigning on our core beliefs rather than being a party of everything for everyone'...............Actually stated with a straight face by of all people a Liberal-Democrat, the original Politicians of Bray Sir...........The party with a policy 'suit you Sir' for every area of Britain. Core policies!? What core policies? Yikes, two whole comments worth of bluster and indignation, did the point about the Tories not being able to win a majority against the worst opposition in modern political history hit too close to home? I could explain my point about relevancy in regards to electoral viability again in simpler terms if you'd like but I fear i'd be wasting my time. You are always good for a chuckle carlton43 but you will forever be the epitome of the truth that not all opinions are created equal. |
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Post by yellowperil on Jun 15, 2018 14:20:14 GMT
I must say you can tell when the Lib Dems have had a good-ish night, not so much from the delusional rants from our "friends" but more from the apoplectic outbursts from the other sides. Anyone would think they were getting worried.Pretty well all the comments from within the Lib Dems itself have been measured and sensible but on either side we see veritable nonsense being spouted. No one result wasn't good enough to mean a can of beans, but neither does it mean we are going to implode and you can go safely back to two-party politics.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2018 14:22:52 GMT
I must say you can tell when the Lib Dems have had a good-ish night, not so much from the delusional rants from our "friends" but more from the apoplectic outbursts from the other sides. Anyone would think they were getting worried.Pretty well all the comments from within the Lib Dems itself have been measured and sensible but on either side we see veritable nonsense being spouted. No one result wasn't good enough to mean a can of beans, but neither does it mean we are going to implode and you can go safely back to two-party politics. apoplectic? I'm pretty chilled tbh |
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Post by rivers10 on Jun 15, 2018 18:16:06 GMT
The wider electorate are - for now - bored with Brexit, I agree. But in a couple of years when they see it as a mistake (as I strongly suspect they will), they will remember the Tories owned it, the LibDems opposed it and that Labour was missing. Then the LibDems will reap the rewards. Good luck with that...
I agree that in a few years the public will look back on Brexit as a mistake but their thought process wont be- "the Tories owned it, the LibDems opposed it and that Labour was missing" but more like- "Farage owned it, the Tories and Labour tried to make the best of it and who the hell are the Lib Dems???"
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carlton43
Reform Party
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Post by carlton43 on Jun 15, 2018 21:40:54 GMT
I'll see your delusional tweet and raise you... oh boy that makes the other tweet seem positively sober & well-considered. I'm really not sure in what universe Chuka Umunna could win the leadership of the Labour Party with its current membership. I suppose we're all allowed to indulge in wishful thinking but if this person is serious I think a long lie down, at least, might be in order. But why has Mr Day been quoted at all and why are you commenting? He is obviously an unknown complete twat. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2018 18:42:38 GMT
I see your "most boring" and raise it very significantly with Ogmore! The most boring by-election of my political lifetime is and will likely remain Knowsley S in 1990. Very similar turnout to last night as it happens. I feel a thread coming on... |
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Post by Andrew_S on Jun 18, 2018 16:46:02 GMT
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Post by andrew111 on Jun 18, 2018 17:03:05 GMT
Does anyone happen to know the total number of postal voters in Lewisham East? The turnout on the day should really be the turnout of eligible voters, ie. Total voters minus postal voters. It looks as though the postal vote turnout may have been close to that on the day, which would be extraordinary.. Tory voters (usually over represented in the postal vote) sitting on their hands perhaps? |
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Post by tonygreaves on Jun 18, 2018 20:49:04 GMT
I have just read the post-result comments in this thread with some amusement. All the people who like to predict the demise and disappearance of the Liberals always have an excuse when we get a good election result! The fact is that we are not going to go away - time (after all this time) to get used to it!
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Post by tiberius on Jun 18, 2018 20:54:34 GMT
I have just read the post-result comments in this thread with some amusement. All the people who like to predict the demise and disappearance of the Liberals always have an excuse when we get a good election result! The fact is that we are not going to go away - time (after all this time) to get used to it! "Reports of the Liberals' Demise Were Greatly Exaggerated" |
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