Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2020 1:53:23 GMT
Talking of niche taste, Netanyahu is too ‘militant’ in his policies for me, and I’m always very distrustful of any politician (or any system) that wants to actively protect elected officials from prosecution, but looking on the bright side he likes Boris 😉
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Mar 4, 2020 9:04:28 GMT
Talking of niche taste, Netanyahu is too ‘militant’ in his policies for me, and I’m always very distrustful of any politician (or any system) that wants to actively protect elected officials from prosecution, but looking on the bright side he likes Boris 😉 Sadly we have reached a point where to be leader of the main right-of-centre party in any nation, being a borderline or actual crook is no longer a bar but is almost a mandatory part of the person spec. It is hardly surprising they tend to get on. (In interests of neutrality, I suppose it is a populist issue rather than left v right - in Ireland the leading criminal party being officially of the left.) Tbf to Le Pen or the AfD blokes, I don't think I've heard of anything said against their personal honesty.
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Post by greenhert on Mar 4, 2020 13:52:41 GMT
Final seat counts:
Likud 36, Shas 9, UTJ 7, Yamina 6: Likud-allied total 58.
Blue & White Alliance 33, Joint List 15, Labor-Gesher-Meretz 7; Blue & White-allied total 55.
Yisrael Beitenu 7.
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Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Mar 4, 2020 16:17:09 GMT
Benny Gantz is arguing for a new law which would ban an indicted PM from serving. Netanyahu is obviously displeased and has accused the Blue and White leader of trying to steal the election.
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CatholicLeft
Labour
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Post by CatholicLeft on Mar 4, 2020 17:01:18 GMT
Benny Gantz is arguing for a new law which would ban an indicted PM from serving. Netanyahu is obviously displeased and has accused the Blue and White leader of trying to steal the election. This from a man who twisted parliamentary procedure to call a second 2019 election before the president could invite Benny Gantz to try to form a government.
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Post by greenhert on Mar 4, 2020 18:20:00 GMT
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Sibboleth
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Post by Sibboleth on Mar 4, 2020 22:09:57 GMT
Likely to be fewer parties represented if there was a higher threshold Yes, but for once that isn't really the problem. Every list that made it back polled far over the 3.25% threshold; actually all would have made it over a 5% hurdle. The problem is that Netanyahu is so intensely polarising that it is very hard for a pro-Bibi or anti-Bibi camp to count to 61. And that you can't set a threshold high enough to reliably knock out Lieberman without causing a deluge of unintended consequences.
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Georg Ebner
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Post by Georg Ebner on Mar 4, 2020 22:25:19 GMT
I don't know, whether and how much the TurnOut in TelAviv or other leftliberal areas shrunk - seemingly more Arabs and Likudniks voted -, but i know, that totally the participation rose by over 1%! And where do You take Your certainty from, that "Bibi" will retire? Was far likelier last time!
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Mar 4, 2020 22:26:30 GMT
Likely to be fewer parties represented if there was a higher threshold Yes, but for once that isn't really the problem. Every list that made it back polled far over the 3.25% threshold; actually all would have made it over a 5% hurdle. The problem is that Netanyahu is so intensely polarising that it is very hard for a pro-Bibi or anti-Bibi camp to count to 61. And that you can't set a threshold high enough to reliably knock out Lieberman without causing a deluge of unintended consequences. Looking at this set of results, yes. Mergers of parties have narrowed the variety. Of course the ultra-orthodox parties care only about retaining their privileges, which the centre in particular have often threatened to remove.
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Mar 5, 2020 11:11:45 GMT
Yisrael Beitenu seem to want to help break the logjam:
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Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Mar 8, 2020 12:55:44 GMT
Lieberman set out his conditions for joining a government on social media. Gantz, on Twitter, apparently just agreed to them.
For those interested, Lieberman's conditions are 70% of the minimum wage should be paid to pensioners. Local authorities should approve whether businesses and public transport operate on Shabbat. An IDF draft law for Haredim recruitment. Legalise civil marriage. Turn over control of conversions to local rabbis.
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Post by finsobruce on Mar 8, 2020 12:59:14 GMT
Lieberman set out his conditions for joining a government on social media. Gantz, on Twitter, apparently just agreed to them. For those interested, Lieberman's conditions are 70% of the minimum wage should be paid to pensioners. Local authorities should approve whether businesses and public transport operate on Shabbat. An IDF draft law for Haredim recruitment. Legalise civil marriage. Turn over control of conversions to local rabbis. How controversial are each of these propositions in general political discourse? (Israeli, not ours).
The transport thing harks back to 'local option' so beloved of temperance campaigners in the UK , way back when.
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Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Mar 8, 2020 13:03:51 GMT
Lieberman set out his conditions for joining a government on social media. Gantz, on Twitter, apparently just agreed to them. For those interested, Lieberman's conditions are 70% of the minimum wage should be paid to pensioners. Local authorities should approve whether businesses and public transport operate on Shabbat. An IDF draft law for Haredim recruitment. Legalise civil marriage. Turn over control of conversions to local rabbis. How controversial are each of these propositions in general political discourse? (Israeli, not ours).
The transport thing harks back to 'local option' so beloved of temperance campaigner in the UK , way back when.
Other than paying the pensioners that stipend, all are completely opposed by the ultra Orthodox but supported by increasing numbers of non Haredim Israelis.
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Mar 8, 2020 13:29:27 GMT
How controversial are each of these propositions in general political discourse? (Israeli, not ours).
The transport thing harks back to 'local option' so beloved of temperance campaigner in the UK , way back when.
Other than paying the pensioners that stipend, all are completely opposed by the ultra Orthodox but supported by increasing numbers of non Haredim Israelis. Interesting. If Likud attach themselves to the ultra-orthodox they benefit from their increasing population. But two problems: first that many don't vote, and second they are very unpopular as you note amongst other Israelis. Particularly the Right who see them as effectively welfare parasites and resent their get-out-clause from National Service. Perhaps when Netanyahu goes they will want to loosen the arrangement with the two Haredim dominated parties
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Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Mar 11, 2020 10:28:09 GMT
Those of us who wish to see a change of government in Israel, or at least the back of Netanyahu, have been dealt a severe blow this morning. Orly Levy-Abekasis, leader of Gesher, has stabbed her left wing allies Meretz and Labor in the back by refusing to support a Gantz government as it will be supported by the Arab List. There were signs things were up when her brother, a Likud mayor, was seen entering Netanyahu's residence, with many speculating an offer was made to her. Naturally, she has been condemned as a traitor with widespread calls from the left, centre, and many in her own party to resign and give up their seat. It is undoubtedly true that her party only got a seat because of Meretz's support and combined with two Blue and White MK's refusing to support Gantz if he's propped up by the Arabs, it looks like election number four is on for the Autumn. That is of course, unless the Gesher MK, who isn't Levy btw, and the two Blue and White MK's defect, to either the Likud proper or join its coalition, which I wouldn't rule out. Gantz has said he'll try anyway, but if those MK's stick to their guns, its over.
I'd add, that if such an arrangement eventually works, much of the credit should go to Ayman Odeh who has softened the Arab parties's policies and stance towards Israel. He has condemned the racism that was once all too prevalent in those parties and has modernised the List. That's a great achievement for Israeli Arab parties who are finally taking the steps towards playing a full part in Israeli democracy after decades of mutually agreed isolation. So much for apartheid.
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CatholicLeft
Labour
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Post by CatholicLeft on Mar 11, 2020 11:11:50 GMT
Those of us who wish to see a change of government in Israel, or at least the back of Netanyahu, have been dealt a severe blow this morning. Orly Levy-Abekasis, leader of Gesher, has stabbed her left wing allies Meretz and Labor in the back by refusing to support a Gantz government as it will be supported by the Arab List. There were signs things were up when her brother, a Likud mayor, was seen entering Netanyahu's residence, with many speculating an offer was made to her. Naturally, she has been condemned as a traitor with widespread calls from the left, centre, and many in her own party to resign and give up their seat. It is undoubtedly true that her party only got a seat because of Meretz's support and combined with two Blue and White MK's refusing to support Gantz if he's propped up by the Arabs, it looks like election number four is on for the Autumn. That is of course, unless the Gesher MK, who isn't Levy btw, and the two Blue and White MK's defect, to either the Likud proper or join its coalition, which I wouldn't rule out. Gantz has said he'll try anyway, but if those MK's stick to their guns, its over. I'd add, that if such an arrangement eventually works, much of the credit should go to Ayman Odeh who has softened the Arab parties's policies and stance towards Israel. He has condemned the racism that was once all too prevalent in those parties and has modernised the List. That's a great achievement for Israeli Arab parties who are finally taking the steps towards playing a full part in Israeli democracy after decades of mutually agreed isolation. So much for apartheid. I am pretty sure that the rule against defections was tightened and presents a greater challenge to those who wish to defect.. On the wider matter, refusing to accept the support of parties voted for by Israeli Arab citizens is obscene in a nation that prides itself on being the 'only liberal democracy' in the Middle East.
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Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Mar 11, 2020 11:35:57 GMT
Those of us who wish to see a change of government in Israel, or at least the back of Netanyahu, have been dealt a severe blow this morning. Orly Levy-Abekasis, leader of Gesher, has stabbed her left wing allies Meretz and Labor in the back by refusing to support a Gantz government as it will be supported by the Arab List. There were signs things were up when her brother, a Likud mayor, was seen entering Netanyahu's residence, with many speculating an offer was made to her. Naturally, she has been condemned as a traitor with widespread calls from the left, centre, and many in her own party to resign and give up their seat. It is undoubtedly true that her party only got a seat because of Meretz's support and combined with two Blue and White MK's refusing to support Gantz if he's propped up by the Arabs, it looks like election number four is on for the Autumn. That is of course, unless the Gesher MK, who isn't Levy btw, and the two Blue and White MK's defect, to either the Likud proper or join its coalition, which I wouldn't rule out. Gantz has said he'll try anyway, but if those MK's stick to their guns, its over. I'd add, that if such an arrangement eventually works, much of the credit should go to Ayman Odeh who has softened the Arab parties's policies and stance towards Israel. He has condemned the racism that was once all too prevalent in those parties and has modernised the List. That's a great achievement for Israeli Arab parties who are finally taking the steps towards playing a full part in Israeli democracy after decades of mutually agreed isolation. So much for apartheid. I am pretty sure that the rule against defections was tightened and presents a greater challenge to those who wish to defect.. On the wider matter, refusing to accept the support of parties voted for by Israeli Arab citizens is obscene in a nation that prides itself on being the 'only liberal democracy' in the Middle East.Not necessarily. The law states that defectors cannot run for any party currently represented in the Knesset, they might decide not to run again or run for a new party next time. It also states they can't join the government proper and the Likud would lose some funding. The Likud wouldn't miss some funding, not at all. On the highlighted part, I completely agree. Many, almost certainly most though I can't prove it, Arabs support and accept the state of Israel. You have Arabs, Muslim as well as Christian and Druze, at all levels of Israeli society, including with senior positions in the IDF. Israel is not a Jewish exclusive state and its politics should reflect that. I've defended Netanyahu on here, but I've been very disappointed at the way he's played fast and loose with Arab loyalty to the state of Israel and its why I firmly believe he should leave power.
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
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Post by The Bishop on Mar 11, 2020 11:41:27 GMT
You have to ask why such an obvious snake was accepted onto a centre-left list in the first place.....
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Mar 12, 2020 0:07:56 GMT
You have to ask why such an obvious snake was accepted onto a centre-left list in the first place..... You're familiar with the wider European centre-Left by now surely? Nothing like a prodigal son. For over a century.
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Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Mar 15, 2020 15:07:37 GMT
Avigdor Lieberman has met with President Rivlin and recommended Gantz lead an "emergency national government". Earlier today, the Arab List unanimously voted to back Gantz. A Gantz premiership moves a step closer.
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