Richard Allen
Banned
Four time loser in VUKPOTY finals
Posts: 19,052
|
Post by Richard Allen on Mar 3, 2020 13:14:32 GMT
Counting presently puts the "blocks" on: Right - 58 Centre/left/Joint list - 56 YB - 6, so closer... Likud were very confident of 60 seats for their bloc when polls closed, if they have fallen two short that is actually significant. The reality is that the result is still the same as last time. Lieberman still holds the balance of power and unless he does something different nothing has changed. |
|
|
|
Post by Merseymike on Mar 3, 2020 13:24:04 GMT
It's still not really a working majority given the way Israeli politics works. It also gives a lot of power to the ultra-orthodox parties. They really do need to look at the electoral system. What would you suggest as an improvement? Some countries operate a "winning bonus" to the largest party. That might encourage larger single parties to form. Higher threshold. Its only 3.25% |
|
|
|
Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Mar 3, 2020 13:28:50 GMT
To be frank, nobody in Israel cares what pragmaticidealist or anyone else thinks of Benjamin Netanyahu. This is a man who in the 90's took a Socialistic state that was an economic basketcase and turned it into a country that is, essentially, Silicon Valley in the form of a country. In his latest terms, he has helped stem the rise in terror, turning a once unsafe country into one of the safest in the region, and he is ending Israel's diplomatic isolation by building alliances with countries who were once enemies. This is why he wins and the failure of people, especially in the Labour party, which is essentially a pogrom these days, to recognise that, ensures that the lack of understanding and bigotry about Israel will persist. |
|
|
|
Post by curiousliberal on Mar 3, 2020 13:32:51 GMT
Likud were very confident of 60 seats for their bloc when polls closed, if they have fallen two short that is actually significant. The reality is that the result is still the same as last time. Lieberman still holds the balance of power and unless he does something different nothing has changed. Has the chance of a Gantz/Lieberman resignation gone up much? If Netanyahu isn’t going to budge, won’t they be at risk of facing internal pressure to step aside for potential successors who can either break the deadlock or do better in the next election? |
|
|
|
Post by pragmaticidealist on Mar 3, 2020 13:34:28 GMT
I think he is referring to the delightful individual who is currently Prime Minister of Israel. That's what I thought. Didn't think it was a terribly helpful description, regardless of my opinion of the man, which is low. Yes, in retrospect, it was uncalled for. I offer my sincere apologies to all actual cockroaches.  |
|
|
|
Post by Merseymike on Mar 3, 2020 13:35:40 GMT
To be frank, nobody in Israel cares what pragmaticidealist or anyone else thinks of Benjamin Netanyahu. This is a man who in the 90's took a Socialistic state that was an economic basketcase and turned it into a country that is, essentially, Silicon Valley in the form of a country. In his latest terms, he has helped stem the rise in terror, turning a once unsafe country into one of the safest in the region, and he is ending Israel's diplomatic isolation by building alliances with countries who were once enemies. This is why he wins and the failure of people, especially in the Labour party, which is essentially a pogrom these days, to recognise that, ensures that the lack of understanding and bigotry about Israel will persist. Oh, I think we 'understand' Israel only too well, and all who do will keep it at arms length at best. Of course its relatively easy to succeed when you are the primary recipient of US aid... |
|
|
|
Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Mar 3, 2020 13:43:44 GMT
To be frank, nobody in Israel cares what pragmaticidealist or anyone else thinks of Benjamin Netanyahu. This is a man who in the 90's took a Socialistic state that was an economic basketcase and turned it into a country that is, essentially, Silicon Valley in the form of a country. In his latest terms, he has helped stem the rise in terror, turning a once unsafe country into one of the safest in the region, and he is ending Israel's diplomatic isolation by building alliances with countries who were once enemies. This is why he wins and the failure of people, especially in the Labour party, which is essentially a pogrom these days, to recognise that, ensures that the lack of understanding and bigotry about Israel will persist. Oh, I think we 'understand' Israel only too well, and all who do will keep it at arms length at best. Of course its relatively easy to succeed when you are the primary recipient of US aid... You really don't. |
|
|
|
Post by Merseymike on Mar 3, 2020 13:46:37 GMT
Oh, I think we 'understand' Israel only too well, and all who do will keep it at arms length at best. Of course its relatively easy to succeed when you are the primary recipient of US aid... You really don't. You mean I don't accept your interpretation of it - but then, you wouldn't expect me to, as I don;t sympathise with Zionism. |
|
|
|
Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Mar 3, 2020 13:56:19 GMT
You mean I don't accept your interpretation of it - but then, you wouldn't expect me to, as I don;t sympathise with Zionism. I'm not getting into a debate about this again. Suffice to say, you don't understand Israel or even what Zionism is. You speak in clichéd anti Israeli sound bites. You essentially sound like a PSC leaflet. |
|
|
|
Post by Merseymike on Mar 3, 2020 13:58:48 GMT
You mean I don't accept your interpretation of it - but then, you wouldn't expect me to, as I don;t sympathise with Zionism. I'm not getting into a debate about this again. Suffice to say, you don't understand Israel or even what Zionism is. You speak in clichéd anti Israeli sound bites. You essentially sound like a PSC leaflet. And you sound like an apologist for Israel and repeat the usual Zionist cliches. As you say, we are never going to agree. |
|
|
|
Post by Devil Wincarnate on Mar 3, 2020 14:04:25 GMT
Dreadful man, but he did bring about this gem of the PPB art.
|
|
Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
Posts: 16,044
|
Post by Sibboleth on Mar 3, 2020 14:27:32 GMT
The electoral system isn't the problem; this is not Israeli politics in normal mode, not at all. The problem is that Netanyahu is an intensely polarising figure and opinions will not budge either way - whichever side comes slightly ahead in any given election depends on the level of enthusiasm/frustration with the situation rather than minds shifting. Look how many voters are treating this as a series of FPTP contests! The smaller parties that are not vote banks are getting completely crushed, and that's for no reason other than that. The reality is that the result is still the same as last time. Lieberman still holds the balance of power and unless he does something different nothing has changed. Media insistence that this was definitely not the case reflects a degree of magical thinking: 'if we insist that finally this is all over, it will all be over!' |
|
|
|
Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Mar 3, 2020 14:50:17 GMT
Dreadful man, but he did bring about this gem of the PPB art. Israel has great ads. It is also one of the few democracies to continue with jingles. Of the recent ones, these three are my favourites. Particularly the Meretz one. |
|
CatholicLeft
Labour
2032 posts until I was "accidentally" deleted.
Posts: 6,732
|
Post by CatholicLeft on Mar 3, 2020 15:08:09 GMT
To be frank, nobody in Israel cares what pragmaticidealist or anyone else thinks of Benjamin Netanyahu. This is a man who in the 90's took a Socialistic state that was an economic basketcase and turned it into a country that is, essentially, Silicon Valley in the form of a country. In his latest terms, he has helped stem the rise in terror, turning a once unsafe country into one of the safest in the region, and he is ending Israel's diplomatic isolation by building alliances with countries who were once enemies. This is why he wins and the failure of people, especially in the Labour party, which is essentially a pogrom these days, to recognise that, ensures that the lack of understanding and bigotry about Israel will persist. Pogrom is grossly overstating it, and I speak as one who believes the party has a problem with antisemitism. |
|
|
|
Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Mar 3, 2020 15:38:53 GMT
The rest of the rant's rubbish as well. Israel had centre right governments from the late 1970s under Menachem Begin and Yitzak Shamir. The Israeli economy has always concentrated on high technology and development (the higher education sector is about twice as large as any other westernised economy). The change in approach to security occurred during the Ariel Sharon government, not under Netanyahu.
|
|
|
|
Post by Merseymike on Mar 3, 2020 16:18:53 GMT
The electoral system isn't the problem; this is not Israeli politics in normal mode, not at all. The problem is that Netanyahu is an intensely polarising figure and opinions will not budge either way - whichever side comes slightly ahead in any given election depends on the level of enthusiasm/frustration with the situation rather than minds shifting. Look how many voters are treating this as a series of FPTP contests! The smaller parties that are not vote banks are getting completely crushed, and that's for no reason other than that. The reality is that the result is still the same as last time. Lieberman still holds the balance of power and unless he does something different nothing has changed. Media insistence that this was definitely not the case reflects a degree of magical thinking: 'if we insist that finally this is all over, it will all be over!' Likely to be fewer parties represented if there was a higher threshold |
|
|
|
Post by Merseymike on Mar 3, 2020 16:31:42 GMT
The rest of the rant's rubbish as well. Israel had centre right governments from the late 1970s under Menachem Begin and Yitzak Shamir. The Israeli economy has always concentrated on high technology and development (the higher education sector is about twice as large as any other westernised economy). The change in approach to security occurred during the Ariel Sharon government, not under Netanyahu. I think that Rabin and Arafat would and could have reached an agreement There were powerful forces on their own sides who did not want them to. |
|
|
|
Post by finsobruce on Mar 3, 2020 16:37:04 GMT
That's what I thought. Didn't think it was a terribly helpful description, regardless of my opinion of the man, which is low. Yes, in retrospect, it was uncalled for. I offer my sincere apologies to all actual cockroaches. Ha. Straight back over the bowler's head - but I would still request some care on this subject. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2020 1:43:29 GMT
Dreadful man, but he did bring about this gem of the PPB art. Israel has great ads. It is also one of the few democracies to continue with jingles. Of the recent ones, these three are my favourites. Particularly the Meretz one. I quite like that PPB; but those jingles... my God no. |
|
|
|
Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Mar 4, 2020 1:47:31 GMT
Israel has great ads. It is also one of the few democracies to continue with jingles. Of the recent ones, these three are my favourites. Particularly the Meretz one. I quite like that PPB; but those jingles... my God no. A niche taste perhaps?   |
|
