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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2019 8:32:07 GMT
We have a pm who does not command a majority but is still pm our democracy is bending But Labour turned down the opportunity to have an election and change the PM. opposition parties did the right thing to wait until after the extension |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2019 8:36:07 GMT
We have a pm who does not command a majority but is still pm our democracy is bending Then we need an election. Why have we not had one? waiting until after extension |
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Sept 22, 2019 9:29:20 GMT
We have a pm who does not command a majority but is still pm our democracy is bending Then we need an election. Why have we not had one? Because only a half-wit would give the lying conniving bastards in No 10, who spend every waking hour leaking cunning little wheezes they've thought up, any control of the process whatsoever. If it was anyone else in there (including T May) we'd have an election by now because there'd be a modicum of trust, but there isn't. The prorogation case will be decided one way or another, ditto the issue of an extension, ditto the issue of whether or not Johnson can actually get a deal or whether he is going full-out for No Deal. At the very most it will involve a wait of a few weeks. If that's inconvenient for the lying conniving etc and so forth, well boo bloody hoo. |
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carlton43
Reform Party
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Post by carlton43 on Sept 22, 2019 9:39:34 GMT
Then we need an election. Why have we not had one? Because only a half-wit would give the lying conniving bastards in No 10, who spend every waking hour leaking cunning little wheezes they've thought up, any control of the process whatsoever. If it was anyone else in there (including T May) we'd have an election by now because there'd be a modicum of trust, but there isn't. The prorogation case will be decided one way or another, ditto the issue of an extension, ditto the issue of whether or not Johnson can actually get a deal or whether he is going full-out for No Deal. At the very most it will involve a wait of a few weeks. If that's inconvenient for the lying conniving etc and so forth, well boo bloody hoo. Yeah! Yeah!! Yeah!!! You don't want an election because Gloria and Jezza are frit of losing. It is that bloody simple. Ponce about as you may the SOLE reason is that you are a bunch of lack-lustre weak-kneed frit people. |
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The Bishop
Labour
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Post by The Bishop on Sept 22, 2019 9:55:52 GMT
We have a pm who does not command a majority but is still pm our democracy is bending But Labour turned down the opportunity to have an election and change the PM. As did your party and the Scottish/Welsh Nats. Almost as if there were sound reasons for doing so, you say? |
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carlton43
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Post by carlton43 on Sept 22, 2019 10:01:00 GMT
But Labour turned down the opportunity to have an election and change the PM. As did your party and the Scottish/Welsh Nats. Almost as if there were sound reasons for doing so, you say? Brcause you all think you will lose. What other reason would make any sense? You are jockying for position and that makes good sense, but there is no merit or ethics behind it. Is there? |
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The Bishop
Labour
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Post by The Bishop on Sept 22, 2019 10:02:42 GMT
Polls agree that LibDems and SNP would make gains in any early election, so no it isn't just that.
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Sept 22, 2019 10:16:50 GMT
Because only a half-wit would give the lying conniving bastards in No 10, who spend every waking hour leaking cunning little wheezes they've thought up, any control of the process whatsoever. If it was anyone else in there (including T May) we'd have an election by now because there'd be a modicum of trust, but there isn't. The prorogation case will be decided one way or another, ditto the issue of an extension, ditto the issue of whether or not Johnson can actually get a deal or whether he is going full-out for No Deal. At the very most it will involve a wait of a few weeks. If that's inconvenient for the lying conniving etc and so forth, well boo bloody hoo. Yeah! Yeah!! Yeah!!! You don't want an election because Gloria and Jezza are frit of losing. It is that bloody simple. Ponce about as you may the SOLE reason is that you are a bunch of lack-lustre weak-kneed frit people. An election is coming soon enough Carlton and we're up for it. But we're going to control it as much as we can. We're not scared, we just know when things are running our way. Things can get a lot worse for your side in the next few weeks. |
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Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Sept 22, 2019 10:25:40 GMT
Yeah! Yeah!! Yeah!!! You don't want an election because Gloria and Jezza are frit of losing. It is that bloody simple. Ponce about as you may the SOLE reason is that you are a bunch of lack-lustre weak-kneed frit people. An election is coming soon enough Carlton and we're up for it. But we're going to control rig it as much as we can. We're not scared, we just know when things are running our way we can't win. Things can get a lot worse for your our side in the next few weeks if we gave the electorate a proper choice. FTFY Adam  . |
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Post by matureleft on Sept 22, 2019 10:27:22 GMT
As did your party and the Scottish/Welsh Nats. Almost as if there were sound reasons for doing so, you say? Brcause you all think you will lose. What other reason would make any sense? You are jockying for position and that makes good sense, but there is no merit or ethics behind it. Is there? It should be consensual to say that everyone is jockeying for position at the moment and there's little high principle in play (beyond the reasonable one, for many, of trying to avoid a no deal Brexit). Johnson was keen to have an early election (with quite a simple message) to avoid the risk of holding one immediately post-Brexit (if 31 October holds and a no-deal departure were to happen). The risks of facing the electorate in a period of disruption and turmoil would be too great for any calculating politician. The opposition has had a mirror perspective - since he's set his own deadline with unforeseen consequences let's take advantage of that and push him beyond that point. That either forces him into an election with a potentially unfavourable economic and social backdrop after no-deal, compels an embarrassing climbdown or forces him to make some deal with the EU which may splinter his party further making for a loudly discordant campaign.
I believe that he's opted for the latter and is crafting the messages to support that. He'll have some, limited in my view, collateral damage from ultra-Brexiteers. But he'll have the potential for gains from those who simply want an end to this saga and perceive that a deal will offer that.
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Post by finsobruce on Sept 22, 2019 10:56:21 GMT
We have a pm who does not command a majority but is still pm our democracy is bending Then we need an election. Why have we not had one? Because we have a PM who does not command a majority.
Rinse and repeat.
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Post by finsobruce on Sept 22, 2019 11:00:02 GMT
We have a pm who does not command a majority but is still pm our democracy is bending Is this Israel or the UK we are talking about.  |
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Post by yellowperil on Sept 22, 2019 11:15:51 GMT
We have a pm who does not command a majority but is still pm our democracy is bending Is this Israel or the UK we are talking about. Both, surely. There are certain other similarities between the two countries, like a similar degree of trustworthiness of the two leaders. |
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Post by finsobruce on Sept 22, 2019 11:23:20 GMT
Is this Israel or the UK we are talking about. Both, surely. There are certain other similarities between the two countries, like a similar degree of trustworthiness of the two leaders. Well indeed - that's what i was positing as it was a UK discussion in the Israel thread but could have been the other way around.
Interesting that we have managed to get ourselves into the sort of deadlock that always leads us to decry the israeli system. |
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Sept 22, 2019 11:59:56 GMT
An election is coming soon enough Carlton and we're up for it. But we're going to control rig it as much as we can. We're not scared, we just know when things are running our way we can't win. Things can get a lot worse for your our side in the next few weeks if we gave the electorate a proper choice. FTFY Adam .  . But the fear that Cummings wants to rig it the other way is exactly why no-one will trust No 10 on calling an election until every thing that can be tied down, is. This is going to be a tight election and unpredictable in every way. All sides will try to time it for the point of maximum preparedness on their side and minimum on the opposite. The fact that the Tories, having resisted all calls for a new election ever since they lost their majority (perfectly understandable btw) are now the ones pressing for a GE ASAP suggest they feel things can only get worse for them. If they were confident of leaving on 31/10/19 with a sellable deal then waiting until after that date and basking in the glory would be the obvious move. From our POV we are rising in the polls, our leader's popularity rating is rising, there's every prospect of the Lab conference being a shit-show with possibility of us starting to post regular poll leads over Labour, (with potential for a tipping point on our credibility being reached); the nearer we get to 31/10 the harder it is for Johnson to keep No Dealers and Dealers both on board; tensions between No 10 and No 11 allegedly simmer away and will impact on the spending promises Johnson will want to unveil at Conference; Johnson's honeymoon effect is likely to fade; and there's always the possibility of him dropping a massive brick because that's what he does (and so do one or two others in the Cabinet - Priti Patel has form especially.) We might get a few more embarrassing defections, whether or not to us. And we are working on local campaigning, fine-tuning our targets, raising funds. Why the hell would we want to go off half-cocked just because the Tories are starting to panic? |
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Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
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Post by Sibboleth on Sept 22, 2019 12:59:49 GMT
Sibboleth Are there any overwhelmingly Christian settlements that can suggest how they vote? The Christian minority is quite geographically concentrated, but generally within larger settlements; they tend to live in the older (and more desirable; they are a high SES group) parts of Arab majority towns rather than form their own. But there are two villages with entirely Christian populations: Fassuta – Joint List 62, YB 17, DU 11, B&W 5.7, Labor 1.3, Likud 0.9 Mi’ilya – Joint List 80, DU 8.7, B&W 5.4, YB 4.4 There are also five where they form a majority: Eilabun – Joint List 66, B&W 13, DU 8.3, YB 5.7, Likud 2.5, Labor 2.2 I’billin – Joint List 83, B&W 5.6, DU 3.7, YB 2.5, Labor 2.0, Others 1.4, Likud 1.0 Jish – Joint List 63, YB 22, B&W 7.0, DU 2.8, Labor 2.6 Kafr Yasif – Joint List 86, DU 4.5, B&W 3.1, YB 2.5, Likud 1.8, Labor 0.8 Rameh – Joint List 53, B&W 20, YB 12, Likud 4.2, Labor 4.2, DU 3.8, Shas 1.7 For comparison, Joint List results in Arab towns and villages with Muslim supermajorities or an exclusively Muslim population tended to be well into the 90s. |
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Post by curiousliberal on Sept 22, 2019 13:15:19 GMT
A secular / non practicing (but sends his kids to a Jewish school) Scottish Jew of my acquaintance was on holiday in Israel this summer and came back amazed at the two entirely different countries that Jerusalem and Tel Aviv seemed to be in. He said he could imagine living a happy life in Tel Aviv but really didn’t fancy the atmosphere in Jerusalem at all. Those municipality results perhaps reflect that impression. To an extent, but I would have thought one of the drawbacks of living in Jerusalem would have come from its dynamics involving a considerably large proportion of inhabitants *not* being able to vote, amongst other things. |
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Post by Merseymike on Sept 22, 2019 13:42:22 GMT
A secular / non practicing (but sends his kids to a Jewish school) Scottish Jew of my acquaintance was on holiday in Israel this summer and came back amazed at the two entirely different countries that Jerusalem and Tel Aviv seemed to be in. He said he could imagine living a happy life in Tel Aviv but really didn’t fancy the atmosphere in Jerusalem at all. Those municipality results perhaps reflect that impression. To an extent, but I would have thought one of the drawbacks of living in Jerusalem would have come from its dynamics involving a considerably large proportion of inhabitants *not* being able to vote, amongst other things. Tel Aviv is a secular, "liberal" city. Jerusalem is neither - and is disputed on a very profound level |
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Post by Merseymike on Sept 22, 2019 13:45:19 GMT
Yeah! Yeah!! Yeah!!! You don't want an election because Gloria and Jezza are frit of losing. It is that bloody simple. Ponce about as you may the SOLE reason is that you are a bunch of lack-lustre weak-kneed frit people. An election is coming soon enough Carlton and we're up for it. But we're going to control it as much as we can. We're not scared, we just know when things are running our way. Things can get a lot worse for your side in the next few weeks. If Johnson manages to push through no deal then he must be made to sort out the consequences without a parliamentary majority. I would certainly not be in favour of bailing him out via an election. |
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Post by curiousliberal on Sept 22, 2019 13:53:02 GMT
To an extent, but I would have thought one of the drawbacks of living in Jerusalem would have come from its dynamics involving a considerably large proportion of inhabitants *not* being able to vote, amongst other things. Tel Aviv is a secular, "liberal" city. Jerusalem is neither - and is disputed on a very profound levelQuite - but this latter part is far more significant, in my view, than the standard 'wtf most people in the countryside think differently from most people in cities?!' divide that commentators like to pretend we still haven't noticed, and probably much harder to cope with as a resident on a day-to-day basis. The election results can't wholly reflect that particular divide for very obvious reasons. A better comparison which is mostly borne out by electoral results would be the Ashkelon-Tel Aviv divide. |
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. But the fear that Cummings wants to rig it the other way is exactly why no-one will trust No 10 on calling an election until every thing that can be tied down, is.
